Honk Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: Zombies also get some decent buffs but they require large numbers and a corpse cart to be effective And they perform... fielded them in a 1.5k LoB army with a VL and a coven throne, brawled the whole game with a whole Khorne army. At the end I still had 35 left, while he had... well, still some rubbish, but we played places of arcane power so he was loosing on default anyway. we decided to plan b : kill as much as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 I realized one of my biggest mistakes is just not having my Necromancer relevant or in play. I think I need to adopt a very tight formation. Everything wholly within 12” keeping my Wight King in the center, and everyone near him. I wasn’t getting Deathly Invocations from my Necromancer and never had him within 18” to get off Overwhelming Dread or anything. Also since he loves to charge with Chaos Knights and Hellstriders it may be wise to take Soulpike instead of Amaranthine Orb? Against a powerful hero (KoS) it may be wise to take Decrepify and to position aggressively, but keeping him protected as well. Keeping all my synergies and placing my graveyards in a tighter formation and fighting within them, keeping my army always within 9” of all 4 and keeping all my heroes within 6” of my units to always be able to benefit from their passive abilities I think will be extremely helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 @Ravinsild From my understanding the deathly invocations stack so having several wight kings, necromancers and vampires will provide alot of regeneration if you can manage the formations well enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: @Ravinsild From my understanding the deathly invocations stack so having several wight kings, necromancers and vampires will provide alot of regeneration if you can manage the formations well enough I’ve got Vhordrai, a regular Vampire Lord, a regular Wight King and a Necromancer. I need to play my Cogs super aggressively and run my Necromancer up to immediately get him into play and start debuffing and double casting to give me VHD as well. But I realize I’m not using him to his full potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: @Ravinsild From my understanding the deathly invocations stack so having several wight kings, necromancers and vampires will provide alot of regeneration if you can manage the formations well enough I’ve got Vhordrai, a regular Vampire Lord, a regular Wight King and a Necromancer. I need to play my Cogs super aggressively and run my Necromancer up to immediately get him into play and start debuffing and double casting to give me VHD as well. But I realize I’m not using him to his full potential. I really want to learn how to use Vhordrai to his maximum potential because I believe in him. It may be a better idea to use a regular VLoZD but I’m still going to try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, Ravinsild said: I’ve got Vhordrai, a regular Vampire Lord, a regular Wight King and a Necromancer. I need to play my Cogs super aggressively and run my Necromancer up to immediately get him into play and start debuffing and double casting to give me VHD as well. But I realize I’m not using him to his full potential. VHD is a stupidly useful spell, I always tend to run a mortarch in my lists as well and arkhan with VHD is pretty nuts. Arkhans command ability also let's you abuse VHD as well as low range spells like soul harvest from a safe distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: VHD is a stupidly useful spell, I always tend to run a mortarch in my lists as well and arkhan with VHD is pretty nuts. Arkhans command ability also let's you abuse VHD as well as low range spells like soul harvest from a safe distance. Yes! I want to use a magic based Arkhan list! Maybe with the Battalion? I don’t know but I want to try to play the magic game without Nagash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ravinsild said: I really want to learn how to use Vhordrai to his maximum potential because I believe in him. It may be a better idea to use a regular VLoZD but I’m still going to try it out. Paint him with magic buffs or debuff anything with high burst damage potential and charge him into anything that needs to die fast. His breath attack may only be 8" but it's a free 6 mortal wounds and his spell makes for deadly self buffing. His command ability can also help your foot vamps or wight kings pull a winning combat phase out there rotting asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, Ravinsild said: Yes! I want to use a magic based Arkhan list! Maybe with the Battalion? I don’t know but I want to try to play the magic game without Nagash. use the battalion, it get's you all the spells you need plus protection from ranged, which i find is necessary given both stormcast players in my area love the sacrosanct ranged units. Curse of years has never let me down and despite being weak on it's own, the mortis engine works wonders in conjunction with the battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: use the battalion, it get's you all the spells you need plus protection from ranged, which i find is necessary given both stormcast players in my area love the sacrosanct ranged units. Curse of years has never let me down and despite being weak on it's own, the mortis engine works wonders in conjunction with the battalion. I’m going to curse of years a Keeper right off the table reee! I’m so excited about Arkhan and having actual magic to play with. is the purple sun of Shyish a good spell? It seems like based on his tightly grouped packed in formations I could do some devastating damage. Ill post an experimental list and see what everyone thinks as far as magic goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, Ravinsild said: I’m going to curse of years a Keeper right off the table reee! I’m so excited about Arkhan and having actual magic to play with. is the purple sun of Shyish a good spell? It seems like based on his tightly grouped packed in formations I could do some devastating damage. Ill post an experimental list and see what everyone thinks as far as magic goes. I've never used it personally due to my opponents liking to spread out, but it could be absolutely devastating if you're willing to pay the points. Plus with his lack of wizards he can't even dream of denying your 7+ spells per turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: I've never used it personally due to my opponents liking to spread out, but it could be absolutely devastating if you're willing to pay the points. Plus with his lack of wizards he can't even dream of denying your 7+ spells per turn. Something roughly like this? Would it be worth dropping Soul Harvest & Spell Portal for Purple Sun? Also I could drop the Grave Guard and 5 Dire Wolves to run a VLoZD instead of a regular Vampire Lord. Skeleton%20Warriors%20Magic%20Fist%20%32.pdf Skeleton%20Warriors%20Magic%20Fist.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Ravinsild said: Something roughly like this? Would it be worth dropping Soul Harvest & Spell Portal for Purple Sun? Also I could drop the Grave Guard and 5 Dire Wolves to run a VLoZD instead of a regular Vampire Lord. Skeleton%20Warriors%20Magic%20Fist%20%32.pdf Arkhan can use his command ability to fill the same role as the spell portal, I find dire wolves work best in min size units, you can keep the grave guard as well to chop through daemonettes. It's up to you about the VLoZD, could help with dealing with the knights but i personally leave that to vordhai or spells and opt to take more foot vamps for extra spellcasting and invocation coverage, which you'll need since he'll be chopping skeles down like butter. It helps that vamps can somewhat hold their own against most infantry and the chalice is free so healing isn't a problem if you've already used healing spells like transference or lifeswarm that turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: Arkhan can use his command ability to fill the same role as the spell portal, I find dire wolves work best in min size units, you can keep the grave guard as well to chop through daemonettes. It's up to you about the VLoZD, could help with dealing with the knights but i personally leave that to vordhai or spells and opt to take more foot vamps for extra spellcasting and invocation coverage, which you'll need since he'll be chopping skeles down like butter. It helps that vamps can somewhat hold their own against most infantry and the chalice is free so healing isn't a problem if you've already used healing spells like transference or lifeswarm that turn. That’s true, if it effects himself then all enemy units within 9”!!!!! Will take damage and he will gain tons of healing, not to mention the other heroes with spells usually having 24” range! Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, Ravinsild said: That’s true, if it effects himself then all enemy units within 9”!!!!! Will take damage and he will gain tons of healing, not to mention the other heroes with spells usually having 24” range! Wow. This is why sacrament is a nasty legion to fight if you don't have much spell denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 VLoZD and VL both fill different roles (I honestly always take both + 2 Necromancers). VL is a great, but super fragile support piece. A relatively cheap source of better DI, and an amazing command ability (really shines on skeletons and reapers). VLoZD is a bruiser that wants to be in the thick of it. He can also be made very tanky (but far from invincible) via the Etheral Amulet. His CA is solid, but he will usually be using it on himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Ravinsild said: Something roughly like this? Would it be worth dropping Soul Harvest & Spell Portal for Purple Sun? Also I could drop the Grave Guard and 5 Dire Wolves to run a VLoZD instead of a regular Vampire Lord. Skeleton%20Warriors%20Magic%20Fist%20%32.pdf Skeleton%20Warriors%20Magic%20Fist.pdf the spellportal/soul harvest combo is really strong! if you place the portals well in your turn 1 you can easily target multiple units if not all his army turn 1 for a lot of dmg. Also it's possible to keep Arkhan near the portal for turn 2 and do the same thing again! this is really a nasty combo and if you roll high the 2d3 MW on any ennemy units in 9'' or 15'' will make your opponent cringe! ahah! Purple sun in comparison is good against horde units but it can backfire badly against you and the dmg is too unreliable for my taste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 29 minutes ago, Cursed said: the spellportal/soul harvest combo is really strong! if you place the portals well in your turn 1 you can easily target multiple units if not all his army turn 1 for a lot of dmg. Also it's possible to keep Arkhan near the portal for turn 2 and do the same thing again! this is really a nasty combo and if you roll high the 2d3 MW on any ennemy units in 9'' or 15'' will make your opponent cringe! ahah! Purple sun in comparison is good against horde units but it can backfire badly against you and the dmg is too unreliable for my taste! Well the list my opponent runs features over 100 models... 80 Chaos Marauders, 10 Chaos Knights, 15 Hellstriders, 2 KoS, an Exalted Seeker of Chariot, and more.. and he’s not the only person who plays with a ton of models. It’s entirely possible it could backfire, but on the other hand not if I kill his wizards Also I can hopefully regenerate my guys back... but he has no way to get anyone back, he can only summon new units to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 27 minutes ago, Ravinsild said: Well I happen to have almost all of that except for the second block of 40 skeletons. I’ve only got 60 in total but I might buy another 20. I also realize Decrepify might be amazing to hit his Keeper of Secrets with. If I can just constantly debuff his KoS I can ignore them and whittle down the rest of his army. Especially if you roll a 9+ and the Spell goes off twice =} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 12:41 AM, Ravinsild said: I tend to prefer more elite armies like Ironjawz and the certain way I play Khorne. May I ask what your Khorne lists look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 20, 2018 Author Share Posted October 20, 2018 I don’t know. I’m done with this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Just now, Ravinsild said: I don’t know. I’m done with this game. Don’t you think that is a bit rash?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 20, 2018 Author Share Posted October 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Honk said: Don’t you think that is a bit rash?! Not at all. In 10 or more games I’ve won 2 with my death army and it was against really bad armies. If I don’t spam Grimghasts and Nagash there’s no point in playing. Im just done trying. The “amazing combat monster” Prince Vhordrai averages 3 wounds for me then dies turn 1. My Black Knights get swept off the board after averaging 6 wounds. My grave yards are always in the wrong spot. My heroes are always in the wrong place. “Hurr durr Death is so OP ez mode army.” Except I literally can’t win to save my life. I’m just done. It’s not fun. Every game I’m just frustrated. Every single game I try something different and still fail. I adjust from the last game and it still doesn’t matter. The dice never roll my way. I’m at my limit. I just literally cannot play this army. If it means I have to go 120 skeletons or some other Horde ****** I don’t want to. I don’t want to paint and mess with that many models. I hate that many models. I hate moving 40 skeletons. It takes forever. It’s not fun. They fall over. They get tangled. They dominos. They just ****** suck and I don’t want to multiply that headache. This is clearly not for me, because I’m not WAAC because I refuse to use the absolute most min/maxed list but literally always losing is frustrating as ******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Well, maybe it is time to take a break, before you start a fire in the backyard. Hope you‘ll feel different after a month or two in hiatus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 @Ravinsild I get what you mean, I play Tau for 40k which is one of the worst performing armies in my local meta (the 40k scene around here is at least twice the size as AoS, I'm one of 4 tau players) I was doing about as bad as my fellow tau players until i tried a gimmicky off meta build for fun and ended up going 2 out of 3 in the last tournament I entered. I take it your local meta is a very competitive environment? The 40k meta around here is super competitive while the AoS is the polar opposite and very laid back. Unfortunately after getting more games under my belt with death against a wider variety of armies I will agree that death in general lacks point efficiency, this is probably since summoning and respawning models is so highly valued, but losing a unit of paper thin models is still losing an objective even if they come back next turn. I can also understand the dice never seeming to roll your way, I've lost games because of poor rolling as well, everyone does, such is the nature of dice games. I also relate on hating hordes, while it looks cool, it's a pain to move massive units. I like death conceptually and I like it's characters and more elite units, but the horde fodder is a hassle. That's probably why I've been finding slaves to darkness as a nice change of pace, most of my units are between 5-10 models and my only large unit is a 20 man marauder screen. Honestly, Just take a break from death, put them up on the shelf until some FAQ or new death release changes things up and try to pick up a secondary army on the side in the meantime. If your local hobby shop deals in used models you could probably start a small 1000pt army of something different for cheap, that's how i started playing chaos. Just try to find something that doesn't require as much focus on interweaving mechanics and seems fun. Personally I'd try KO or fyreslayers if i wanted to start a new army. At any rate just try to take your mind off death for a bit and if you give up on us rotting corpses then i won't blame you, if anything I'd hope to catch you on the chaos forum. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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