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Ravinsild

I’m feeling stuck with Deathrattle.

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This is a bit of a rant but I’m just at the point where I’m not sure what to do with Death. 

It’s entirely possible I’m just bad, or I don’t get it, but I will say I often win the majority of my games against a variety of opponents with my other 2 armies which are Khorne (mortals only) and Ironjawz. 

However with Death I’ve lost more games than I’ve won and my most played opponent plays Slaneesh and I’ve only beat him 1 time out of 4 and only just barely. 

I run almost all skeletons and vampires. I got Prince Vordhrai/VLoZD, I got a Terrorgheist finally, I’ve got 2 Vampire Lords, 6 Vargheists and a Coven Throne and Neferata + Mannfred. I enjoy vampires. 

I also have Arkhan, 2 Wight Kings with Baleful Tomb Blade on foot, 1 on a Skeletal Steed, and 1 with a Black Axe, 4 Morghast Harbingers, 60 skeletons, 30 Grave Guard, and 15 Black Knights which is the majority of my army almost all of the time. Skeletons are my jam. 

Then for random other stuff I have 3 Spirit Hosts, a Mortis Engine, a Corpse Cart, 2 Necromancers and 3 units of 5 Dire Wolves. 

Most of my lists are Deathmarch based, but I’m just struggling to win. My Skeletons fall like wheat to anything with rend, today like 20 skeletons out of 40 died in one go before battleshock...

My army can’t take a punch, but especially against Slaneesh, he has so much minuses to be hit that it just ruins my dice. I often can’t win on attrition, even if I charge, because I do no damage due to just hitting on 4’s or 5’s even with like 40 attacks... and then die in droves way more than I can possibly regenerate even using Deathly Invocations, Grave Yards etc... 

i don’t want to run Nagash and 60 Grimghasts but I’m struggling to win by not doing it. 

Do I have to meta list to win? Do I have to only copy tournament builds? Is there no other way? 

I’m just feeling stuck and frustrated and I do not want to be pidgeon holed into 1 build to rule them all. 

This Slaneesh army has 188 wounds, 30 in Chaos Knights, another 30 in 3 sets of 5 Hellstriders, 2 Keeper of Secrets, A Warshrine, A Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount, just multiple multi wound models that have debuffs and hit really hard. 

My list has 124 wounds... only 1 thing with over 5 wounds (Vordhrai) and poor saves that crumble to his multiple sources of rend and multiple sources of 2+ damage. 

And this is Slaneesh, a bad army. Against more competent armies which will obviously have mortal wound output and loads of rend, like Sylvaneth or other LoN, or DoK etc.... my list will be obliterated. My screens don’t hold so I can’t hold objectives. 

I just don’t know what to do aside from either “join them” (meta Nagash ghost spam lists) or give up. 

Anyone have any advice? Is it just infeasible to run a Deathrattle list without copying Ianob’s for the absolute most min/maxed possible? 

If anyone cares to see this is the list I’ve been working off of: 

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (480)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Ossific Diadem  
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade(120)
- General
- Mount: Steed
- Trait: Lord of Nagashizzar  
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
15 x Grave Guard (240)
- Great Wight Blades

Units
10 x Black Knights (240)

Battalions
Deathmarch (160)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

Should I just change directions and go for an Arkhan based magic list? Do those even work? Should I just go for a full aggro vampire fist like this? 

Allegiance: Legion of Night
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Mannfred Mortarch Of Night (420)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)
Prince Vhordrai (480)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Morbheg's Claw  
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
6 x Vargheists (320)

Behemoths
Terrorgheist (300)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103
 

Do Deathrattle and Vampire units have a place in this game to consistently win? What am I doing wrong? 

 

Edited by Ravinsild

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when playing death I've found I have to play with at least two big blob of something! (skeletons or grimghasts)

with 2 blocks you have better board control and if one of them gets crushed you still have the second one to help.

Scenario will influence this a lot but one thing I like to do is 2 big blobs of skeletons around the 1/3 and 2/3 of the board screened by 2 units of dire wolves. When I get charge, my skeletons are protected and can pile in and attack at full strength just after my screen dying. If you let skeletons get charged by something nasty they won't do anything for you.

 

In list 1 your grave guards are too few in numbers! either boost their numbers or take only 5  for battalion requirement and replace the rest with some dire wolves! they will help you protect your big units and score objectives.

 

In list 2, the sad truth is that vargheist don't do enough dmg to help you in this kind of list and are way too fragile. With so few bodies you really need big hitters and vargheist are one of the subpar choice of LoN. Also LoN plays heavily in the swarm/attrition game so this list will struggle a lot for most of the battleplans. Another thing, all your army is really fast moving except the necro, so he will get left behind and unprotected a lot.

 

I know you like eclectic choices from reading some of your last posts but sadly a lot of our units can't be played in a competitive environment. Also, since you said you are losing a lot, your opponents are maybe bringing stronger lists than yours, so I think it's time to follow the meta a little if you want to compete. Like most armies you can play whatever you want in a casual environment but when you want to win you have to take the better choices.

 

My meta is semi-competitive so against some opponents, I know if I play some blood knights, it will be ok and we will have a nice game. But against some opponents I have to bring the good stuff or else I won't compete. If you stick with playing casual units against a competitive list, you will lose a lot. I don't want to sound rude or anything but it's just the truth sadly.

Edited by Cursed
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30 minutes ago, Cursed said:

when playing death I've found I have to play with at least two big blob of something! (skeletons or grimghasts)

with 2 blocks you have better board control and if one of them gets crushed you still have the second one to help.

Scenario will influence this a lot but one thing I like to do is 2 big blobs of skeletons around the 1/3 and 2/3 of the board screened by 2 units of dire wolves. When I get charge, my skeletons are protected and can pile in and attack at full strength just after my screen dying. If you let skeletons get charged by something nasty they won't do anything for you.

 

In list 1 your grave guards are too few in numbers! either boost their numbers or take only 5  for battalion requirement and replace the rest with some dire wolves! they will help you protect your big units and score objectives.

 

In list 2, the sad truth is that vargheist don't do enough dmg to help you in this kind of list and are way too fragile. With so few bodies you really need big hitters and vargheist are one of the subpar choice of LoN. Also LoN plays heavily in the swarm/attrition game so this list will struggle a lot for most of the battleplans. Another thing, all your army is really fast moving except the necro, so he will get left behind and unprotected a lot.

 

I know you like eclectic choices from reading some of your last posts but sadly a lot of our units can't be played in a competitive environment. Also, since you said you are losing a lot, your opponents are maybe bringing stronger lists than yours, so I think it's time to follow the meta a little if you want to compete. Like most armies you can play whatever you want in a casual environment but when you want to win you have to take the better choices.

 

My meta is semi-competitive so against some opponents, I know if I play some blood knights, it will be ok and we will have a nice game. But against some opponents I have to bring the good stuff or else I won't compete. If you stick with playing casual units against a competitive list, you will lose a lot. I don't want to sound rude or anything but it's just the truth sadly.

So I pretty much don’t really have the tools I need to play Death correctly.

i think it’s getting to the point where death just isn’t the army for me. Too few viable choices, and it basically has to be a Horde army or it fails. I hate hordes. I don’t want to buy or paint 80+ skeletons, or ghosts, or anything honestly. 

I tend to prefer more elite armies like Ironjawz and the certain way I play Khorne. 

I find it exceedingly tedious to move my block of 40 skeletons... having to do 80... at that point I’ll just go do something else. It’s all so fiddly, slow and frustrating as it is. I prefer MSU and smaller armies. 

In 40k I play Chaos Space Marines (world Eaters) and everything is 10 to 5 men. 

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What he said... double Blob for board/objective control and Double puppies to prevent charges.

I can’t really say what to field and how to play to win, but in the stated list, he fields 30 knights... field a second necromancer for overwhelming dread and fading vigor and with the vamp go for ?ghoststormwind? No.2 let’s see how they perform when old age sets in (bites for me). Then you are both not really achieving things in melee, but you should be able to outgrind him.

before your heart breaks, you don’t „have to“ bring 40cal skellis, grab more puppies and then punch in some faces with blood knights, being buffed up by the VL and the throne. Against heavy debuffing army it’s still going to be rough

 

Edited by Honk
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15 minutes ago, Honk said:

What he said... double Blob for board/objective control and Double puppies to prevent charges.

I can’t really say what to field and how to play to win, but in the stated list, he fields 30 knights... field a second necromancer for overwhelming dread and fading vigor and with the vamp go for ?ghoststormwind? No.2 let’s see how they perform when old age sets in (bites for me). Then you are both not really achieving things in melee, but you should be able to outgrind him.

before your heart breaks, you don’t „have to“ bring 40cal skellis, grab more puppies and then punch in some faces with blood knights, being buffed up by the VL and the throne. Against heavy debuffing army it’s still going to be rough

 

Yeah I’m wondering if there isn’t a magic based Arkhan list I can run, but I don’t know how to build it and it apparently also has some straight hard counters and is a tad slow. 

I would love to find a reasonable way to bring at least Neferata/Mannfred & VLOZD or Vhordrai for at least two threats that need to be answered plus just what I’ve got (skeletons, Grave Guard and Black Knights) for body count or whatever. 

I don’t know if I have a good list existing in my collection. 

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Ok, first thing, you've played 4 games with a brand new army against one army and youre expecting results. Just don't. Especially since you're coming from two armies that play differently. It takes time to learn an army and expecting results immediately just means you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

As for the list you're having troubles has a lot of minus to hit. Slaanesh stuff is pretty fragile so they're relying on that hit debuff. As such, you wanna run things that don't need to roll to hit. I'm not too familiar with death but I know they have decent magic (even outside of Nagash) and I'm sure you have other units with abilities that out out mortals without rolling to hit.

Use your skeletons as an anvil to absorb what will be a devastating charge with that many cav and then move in the mortal wound dealers. Don't be tempted by hard hitters as they won't land the hits to do the damage.

Also, I'd say drop Death march against this army. He has a clear movement advantage so spending points to try and close the gap in such a minor way is just a waste of money. Instead you want zone control through chaff so he can't use the mobility over you.

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13 minutes ago, Yoshiya said:

Ok, first thing, you've played 4 games with a brand new army against one army and youre expecting results. Just don't. Especially since you're coming from two armies that play differently. It takes time to learn an army and expecting results immediately just means you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

As for the list you're having troubles has a lot of minus to hit. Slaanesh stuff is pretty fragile so they're relying on that hit debuff. As such, you wanna run things that don't need to roll to hit. I'm not too familiar with death but I know they have decent magic (even outside of Nagash) and I'm sure you have other units with abilities that out out mortals without rolling to hit.

Use your skeletons as an anvil to absorb what will be a devastating charge with that many cav and then move in the mortal wound dealers. Don't be tempted by hard hitters as they won't land the hits to do the damage.

Also, I'd say drop Death march against this army. He has a clear movement advantage so spending points to try and close the gap in such a minor way is just a waste of money. Instead you want zone control through chaff so he can't use the mobility over you.

For what it’s worth I’ve probably played 7 or 8 games total and won 3 of them... 1 was against a Khorne army, 1 was against a Disposses player and 1 was against the Slaneesh guy the rest were losses to whatever else. 

This is the list he’s running... I don’t know the exact details on command traits and such but he was running invaders which let his 2 keepers pile in and fight twice as well as his Chaos Lord appoint a unit of mortals I believe. 

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Invaders
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Lord Of Slaanesh On Daemonic Mount(140)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
- General
- Trait: Terrifying Presence
- Artefact: Chaos Talisman
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 
Herald Of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot (160)

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)
- Claw spear & Shield
5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)
- Claw spear & Shield
5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)
- Claw spear & Shield

Units
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 188
 

I’m thinking I need to go magic, but aside from using Arkhan as a base point I’m lost. I’ve never used magic before in large quantities (Khorne has none and Ironjawz has 1 crappy wizard lol). So as far as building a caster focused army.... no idea. 

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Agaisnt slaanesh your skeles are just fodder, arkhan and vamps is where your damage will come from via spell nuking. Slaanesh can't handle high spell hero phases. Vordhai also works pretty well with his high damage output. Run sacrament for that sweet +1 to all your magic and you'll pump him full of mortal wounds despite his hit debuffing.

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1 hour ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

Agaisnt slaanesh your skeles are just fodder, arkhan and vamps is where your damage will come from via spell nuking. Slaanesh can't handle high spell hero phases. Vordhai also works pretty well with his high damage output. Run sacrament for that sweet +1 to all your magic and you'll pump him full of mortal wounds despite his hit debuffing.

How many wizards on average would you take? 3-4? 5? Arkhan, VLoZD, VL, Necromancer? Then what? Just as many filler units as possible to the biggest numbers I can get? 

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Hey,

 

most time i play Death is a Grand Host of Nagash List. Something like below.

Pros for this list:

  • +1 Attack for Morghast. You can also give them one more attack with your Vempire Lord. They are hitting like a train with 5 Attacks on 3/3/-2/3
  • +1 Attack on Skelletons and Gravegruards (!!) just with one Artifact
  • 6+ Feel no Pain for all Skelletons (including you General, wich is pretty tanky +3 saveroll, 6++ Feel no Pain)
  • Graveguard hitting wich 4 Attacks each are also hitting like a train.
  • If one of your Skelleton Blobs is dead, just spend one Command Point an bring them back to action
  • Necromancer casting Danse Macabre on buffed Graveguards is silly.

 

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash

Leaders
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Vampire Lord (140)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Vampiric Sword & Shield & Chalice
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- General
- Trait: Lord of Nagashizzar 
- Artefact: Ossific Diadem 

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
20 x Grave Guard (320)
- Great Wight Blades
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

Units
4 x Morghast Harbingers (440)
- Spirit Halberds

Total: 1910 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

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7 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

How many wizards on average would you take? 3-4? 5? Arkhan, VLoZD, VL, Necromancer? Then what? Just as many filler units as possible to the biggest numbers I can get? 

I usually run Vordhai, Arkhan and two vamps with wings, I'll occasionally include a wight king for deathmarch if i feel speed is better than numbers. For units I run 2 X 5 black knights, 1 X 10 grave guard, 1 X 30 skeles, 2 X 5 dire wolves, 1X10 grimghasts and will fill the last few points with whatever i feel will be more useful between vargheists, glaivewraiths, lord executioner or endless spells. I'll occasionally also take the extra command points for command ability shenanigans.

Edited by Lucky Snake Eyes
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8 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

How many wizards on average would you take? 3-4? 5? Arkhan, VLoZD, VL, Necromancer? Then what? Just as many filler units as possible to the biggest numbers I can get? 

Arkhan, a necro and a vampire lord are mandatory! they give you access to overwhelming dread, fading vigour, vile transference, vanhel's dance macabre, First of the Mortarch and blood feast. These 6 spells/command abilities are very powerful and will help you a lot to do a good magic heavy army!

 

For extra wizard I like to take an extra necromancer for redundancy and another vampire lord with amaranthine orb can help you bring some hurt to the opponent! (this spell is unreliable but when you roll a 9+ for it and it does 2d6 MW on a good target it's beautiful! :P)

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Death has some awesome debuffs, so get your wizards and use them. Arkhan isn't great for the points but he pretty much guarantees spells to go off and to guarantee unbinds as well. Death is a horde army, it's the whole theme of the army, until GW decide to give vamps a re-vamp (pun fully intended) you don't have the smaller elite units that other armies have. You don't need Nagash and grims, but taking stuff like Black Knights as a suicide unit to charge in, they die, cool, just resurrect and charge again. As others have suggested try using GHoN, as it benefits everything and gives yet another D3 heal. I've had 2 blobs of 40 skeles get 9 x D3 heals in a turn from gravesites, heroes and the extra heal from GHoN, it demoralises your opponent when everything they killed comes back again in the same way as the Slaanesh -53 to hit demoralises you. Also as mentioned GHoN makes Morghasts viable and they can do some serious hurt.

Slaanesh is a pain. I had my first game against them with my ghosts in a 1k tournament, they moved 240972" across the board and everything was -47 to hit, it was horrible. It took all of my prepared battleplans went straight out of the window. But it wasn't until 2 weeks ago that I even started to win any games with the 2.0 ghosts, as it's a new army and things take time to figure out. Stick at it and keep asking for help from fellows followers of our lord and saviour (praise be Nagash), because everyone will always help when they can. What I like to do when trying to figure stuff out is make smaller 1k lists and find a friend who has a day off at the same time I do and run 5-6 1k games. I have 3-4 different 1k lists and I use the smaller games to experiment with what works in the bigger games. And remember that even if Slaanesh is -87 to hit, casting Vanhels Danse on 40 spear skeles who are all in range, while buffed by a wight king, and a VL gives 201 attacks, with a +1 to hit from your heroes, going twice, so the sheer amount of dice will basically take a unit off the board.

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7 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

with a +1 to hit from your heroes,

Which buff is that, if you don't mind me asking?

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2 minutes ago, Mutter said:

Which buff is that, if you don't mind me asking?

Regular skeles get +1 to hit if the unit is within 18" of any DEATH HERO. It's on their warscroll. So in a blob of 30+ they have +2 attacks and if in range of a hero get +1 to hit. Add a VL ability for another +1 attack, add a wight kings ability for another +1 attack. So they have 5 attacks and +1 to hit, cast vanhels and they'll attack twice in combat. I think there is other ways to get the numbers higher, I remember seeing a combo for 241 or something stupid like that.

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Zombies also get some decent buffs but they require large numbers and a corpse cart to be effective and get all their buffs. But they can be cost efficient at the loss of deathrattle and attack volume. But it will even out to 60 attacks hitting on 2+ that has a 1 in 6 chance of anything killed by it becoming a new zombie.

Edited by Lucky Snake Eyes
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5 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

Regular skeles get +1 to hit if the unit is within 18" of any DEATH HERO. It's on their warscroll. So in a blob of 30+ they have +2 attacks and if in range of a hero get +1 to hit. Add a VL ability for another +1 attack, add a wight kings ability for another +1 attack. So they have 5 attacks and +1 to hit, cast vanhels and they'll attack twice in combat. I think there is other ways to get the numbers higher, I remember seeing a combo for 241 or something stupid like that.

The 241 is using Blood Feast (Vampire Lord Command Ability), Lord of Bones (Wight King Command Ability), having the 3 base attacks for being over 30 man strong, and also taking the command trait Lord of Nagashizzar giving +1 attack for Deathrattle units within 6” of the general.

40 x 6 = 240 +1 extra attack for your skeleton champion. 

This assumes, however, every single skeleton can get in range to hit with their weapons.

sounds to me like I either need to come to terms with Death being a Horde army and getting used to it and buying even more stuff or just stop now and accept it may not be for me. 

 

Edited by Ravinsild

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

come to terms with Death being a Horde army

There is lots of fun to be have running hordes. It's more thematic having the endless hordes of the dead. At the end of the day you have to do you, so if you're not feeling Death as an army your not feeling it. But it's worth remembering that Death has many facets and ways of playing, not all are going to be top table army lists but it can be lots of fun ressing back dead things and casting magic and it doesn't have to revolve around our lord and saviour (praise be Nagash). Personally I love the combo of Mannfred and a zombie dragon with a scattering of skeles in a 1k list. 

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14 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

There is lots of fun to be have running hordes. It's more thematic having the endless hordes of the dead. At the end of the day you have to do you, so if you're not feeling Death as an army your not feeling it. But it's worth remembering that Death has many facets and ways of playing, not all are going to be top table army lists but it can be lots of fun ressing back dead things and casting magic and it doesn't have to revolve around our lord and saviour (praise be Nagash). Personally I love the combo of Mannfred and a zombie dragon with a scattering of skeles in a 1k list. 

That’s a list I’m trying to figure out. Mannfred & Vhordrai plus whatever else I can fit in. I’m a huge fan of the big models and monsters in Death. 

I love Death, I like the aesthetic and enjoy building skeletons, there’s so much variety. I have a set of 10 that’s all bald heads, a set of 10 that’s all pristine gear, a set of 10 that’s all rusted and busted gear, a set of 10 that’s all cracked bones, etc. I really enjoy the look of Grave Guard, Black Knights, Morghasts, Vargheists, Terrorgheist, Zombie Dragon, the Dire Wolves look amazing, I like my Corpse Cart, I love Neferata and my Coven Throne ladies in addition to the Vampire Lords. I just love how it all looks, but I find painting too many things tedious and I find transporting, getting out of the carrying case, setting up and actually moving tons and tons of models to be ultra tedious and kind of frustrating. Especially since my skeletons are super fiddly and the banner guys fall over a lot, and sometimes their arms fall and random bits fall off. 

I love my Death models, and I only bought the ones I like (notice I don’t have any ghosts, but I went so far as to buy the resin Wight King with black blade) but I’m just not into running a billion dudes. Maybe I’ll get used to it though. I’m just a detail painter and I don’t like “quick and easy” and spend like 5 or 6 hours in basic guys to make each individual a master piece so 60 Skeletons is already a ton... doubling that just feels hopeless. Especially the taking to places, packing up and taking out, actual movement phase... etc... 

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2 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Especially the taking to places, packing up and taking out, actual movement phase...

The trick with 25mm bases is to weigh them down with 1p pieces or something similar. Also movement trays are a necessary evil. I refused to use them for ages, then I bit the bullet and haven't looked back since. You can get horde packs from looks of retailers. I got mine from element games, simple MDF ones and have sprayed them black. 

As for the packing and unpacking, some people use magnetic trays in boxes. As for me I stick with the old fashioned foam cases and have learned to speed pack/unpack the minis. 

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Alright I came up with what I‘d call a basic list.

you basically have 3 hordes and one unit of wolves and Knights for mobility.

your Vamp Lord has a 3+ unrendable save (if he has a shield) and can cast two spells.

the Shackles will slow Slaanesh down.

the Necro and the vamps buff your army for more dmg.

As for spells: Pick whatever you like.

March forward, slow and debuff Slasnesh with magic and crush them.

%32k%20LoN.pdf

Edited by JackStreicher

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37 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Alright I came up with what I‘d call a basic list.

you basically have 3 hordes and one unit of wolves and Knights for mobility.

your Vamp Lord has a 3+ unrendable save (if he has a shield) and can cast two spells.

the Shackles will slow Slaanesh down.

the Necro and the vamps buff your army for more dmg.

As for spells: Pick whatever you like.

March forward, slow and debuff Slasnesh with magic and crush them.

%32k%20LoN.pdf

Well I happen to have almost all of that except for the second block of 40 skeletons. I’ve only got 60 in total but I might buy another 20. 

I also realize Decrepify might be amazing to hit his Keeper of Secrets with. If I can just constantly debuff his KoS I can ignore them and whittle down the rest of his army. 

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