AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[simakover]

5 hours ago, Sleepa said:

Didn't Simakover say that their starting off point was a Looncurse box? I was also basing all my suggestions on that.

Yes,  my starting point is Looncurse box. Also in our community we play mostly competitive games, so powered list preferable. Im want to progress to 1000 and then to 2000 with sylvaneth. That better to start with? That boxes buy? 

Basically im found list that have no many models(and im like more elite armys) and that im already hame most of it (with some proxy, like ylthari as branchwrath). But this list not looks strange enought( im dont see many screen option, survivability) so need help to find a good roster for tournament play. 

Also im have ylthari box from shadespire, endless spells from malign box

Edited November 13, 2019 by simakover

[Trevelyan]

8 hours ago, Sleepa said:

Agreed that I  wouldn't send a Branchwraith up with on or two groups of Kurnoths, but that's precisely why I suggested including an Arch-Rev. 

. . .

A new player is likely to want to play a TLA like a monster, and the TLA really isn't that kind of monster. I dunno, my two cents.

500 points of Arch-Rev and Kurnoths get practically nothing from Gnarlroot. If you want to put that many points into a unit plus support then you might as well take a Glade which benefits them more directly. 

I don’t see why a new player would find it harder to learn how to play a TLA. They’ve not got any bad habits or expectations to correct. I find that the TLA works very well as a general in 1000 point games. 

[Trevelyan]

3 hours ago, simakover said:

Yes,  my starting point is Looncurse box. Also in our community we play mostly competitive games, so powered list preferable. Im want to progress to 1000 and then to 2000 with sylvaneth. That better to start with? That boxes buy? 

If you want a power list at 1000 points then take Durthu, a unit of 6 Kurnoth Hunters with scythes and an Arch-Revenant, with 2x5 Tree-Revenants as your battleline tax. That’s exactly 1000 points and can plough through almost anything, with the Tree Revs forcing your opponent to cover his objectives so he can’t match you properly. 

If you prefer, you can swap Durthu for Drycha and/or the Arch Rev for a Branchwraith. The ‘wraith lets you summon 100 points of dryads each turn (on a good casting roll) and Drycha adds a host of whacky abilities. They won’t hit quite as hard, but certainly make for a more entertaining list. 

[simakover]

17 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

If you want a power list at 1000 points then take Durthu, a unit of 6 Kurnoth Hunters with scythes and an Arch-Revenant, with 2x5 Tree-Revenants as your battleline tax. That’s exactly 1000 points and can plough through almost anything, with the Tree Revs forcing your opponent to cover his objectives so he can’t match you properly. 

If you prefer, you can swap Durthu for Drycha and/or the Arch Rev for a Branchwraith. The ‘wraith lets you summon 100 points of dryads each turn (on a good casting roll) and Drycha adds a host of whacky abilities. They won’t hit quite as hard, but certainly make for a more entertaining list. 

found this on 1d4chan:

• Grove: Winterleaf
• Treelord Ancient (Grove artefact, Regrowth)
• Arch-Revenant (General)
• Branchwraith (Throne of Vines)
• 5 Spite-Revenants
• 5 Spite-Revenants
• 6 Kurnoth Hunters (Greatswords)

for this list im need 1 TLA and 3 kurnoth (driads as well, for summomong, as a wildwoods)

for 2k im need Drycha, Allariel, 5 spite (and more driads for Allariel) (If list, that im mention earlier is viable for competitive games)

so my plan on Boxes: SC and box of Kurnoths for completing 1k list, then Drycha + Allariel + spite box for completing a 2k list
 

Edited November 13, 2019 by simakover

[Trevelyan]

28 minutes ago, simakover said:

found this on 1d4chan:

• Grove: Winterleaf
• Treelord Ancient (Grove artefact, Regrowth)
• Arch-Revenant (General)
• Branchwraith (Throne of Vines)
• 5 Spite-Revenants
• 5 Spite-Revenants
• 6 Kurnoth Hunters (Greatswords)

It fits the Branchwraith alongside the Arch Rev and six Kurnoths. That’s a definite plus. But it does have some disadvantages.

I personally like the TLA, but he is a lot less punchy than Durthu or Drycha. He does bring an automatic wyldwood to the table and generic spell casting, though, both of which have value.

My real concern with that list is that a pair of Spite units doesn’t have a lot of threat range or general utility to make up for the low numbers. You risk losing the objective game in some scenarios.

I’d also recommend that you give the Frozen Kernel to the Arch Rev. She is far more mobile than the Treelord and wants to be supporting the Kurnoths anyway. 

[simakover]

49 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

It fits the Branchwraith alongside the Arch Rev and six Kurnoths. That’s a definite plus. But it does have some disadvantages.

I personally like the TLA, but he is a lot less punchy than Durthu or Drycha. He does bring an automatic wyldwood to the table and generic spell casting, though, both of which have value.

My real concern with that list is that a pair of Spite units doesn’t have a lot of threat range or general utility to make up for the low numbers. You risk losing the objective game in some scenarios.

I’d also recommend that you give the Frozen Kernel to the Arch Rev. She is far more mobile than the Treelord and wants to be supporting the Kurnoths anyway. 

so no branchwraith for more adaptive list? and why tree-revs? is they better ? looks like its same at survivability as spite-rev
and is this a good list to make a 2000 from it? You told not play with knigh-incator, take scythes instead of swords , but how it can be adapted?
and is it good to take box in my order? or not taking SC and buy Drycha earlier?

Edited November 13, 2019 by simakover

[Trevelyan]

1 hour ago, simakover said:

so no branchwraith for more adaptive list? and why tree-revs? is they better ? looks like its same at survivability as spite-rev
and is this a good list to make a 2000 from it? You told not play with knigh-incator, take scythes instead of swords , but how it can be adapted?
and is it good to take box in my order? or not taking SC and buy Drycha earlier?

Branchwraith is good if you can fit her in and definitely worth having and practicing with for the future. You’ll rarely see a list without her at 2000 points. At 1000 points she is very valuable in theory (an 80 point unit that can add 100 points of infantry per turn) but I don’t always find her essential in low point games. Between the relatively high casting value of her summon, the risk of her spell being unbound and the fact it takes summoned Dryads at least a turn to get into the fight, she doesn’t always deliver. There is no right answer, just be aware of the pros and cons, and consider what you sacrifice to bring her. 

Tree Revenants (TRs) and Spite Revenants (SRs) are both equally squishy and will die to a stiff breeze. SRs hit harder (or at least more often - they still lack rend) and are cheaper to take in larger units. A blob of SRs is the proverbial glass cannon and the Outcast battalion is the cheapest way to fill the battleline tax and get a battalion at 2000 points. TRs are vastly more mobile with their ability to teleport anywhere. In low point games that gives you a big advantage as you either force your opponent to hold units back and cover uncontested objectives or else you teleport in behind enemy lines and steal them. If you want a low model count list then TRs are a good way to offset the numbers advantage other players may have, as a 5 man unit of TRs can keep a much larger enemy unit pinned down. Again, SRs aren’t bad (they are really very good for the points) and you’ll see more of them at 2000 points. It’s just that a 1000 point game has some very different play considerations that you should consider when picking your battleline. You can use SRs at 1000 points, but they will do far less than TRs in many games. 

Having 6 Scythe Hunters and 3 Sword Hunters in your collection is pretty safe at 2000 points. You might not always use them all, but there are plenty of lists that will use one or both. Alarielle can summon a unit of 3 Kurnoths (she’ll want the swords) so it’s good to have them even if you don’t field them at the outset. Which order you get them in is a matter of personal preference. 

At least one SC box is definitely worth getting. Personally I have four - one for each Treelord (or variant) I own as they are the cheapest way to get treelords plus Dryads  and more Dryads are always useful. 

The Branchwych is of limited value. She’s actually good for the points, but we usually have other priorities - many other factions would jump at the chance of an 80 point wizard like her. I have two assembled and two on sprus - they sometimes see play in casual games. 

[simakover]

25 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

Branchwraith is good if you can fit her in and definitely worth having and practicing with for the future. You’ll rarely see a list without her at 2000 points. At 1000 points she is very valuable in theory (an 80 point unit that can add 100 points of infantry per turn) but I don’t always find her essential in low point games. Between the relatively high casting value of her summon, the risk of her spell being unbound and the fact it takes summoned Dryads at least a turn to get into the fight, she doesn’t always deliver. There is no right answer, just be aware of the pros and cons, and consider what you sacrifice to bring her. 

Tree Revenants (TRs) and Spite Revenants (SRs) are both equally squishy and will die to a stiff breeze. SRs hit harder (or at least more often - they still lack rend) and are cheaper to take in larger units. A blob of SRs is the proverbial glass cannon and the Outcast battalion is the cheapest way to fill the battleline tax and get a battalion at 2000 points. TRs are vastly more mobile with their ability to teleport anywhere. In low point games that gives you a big advantage as you either force your opponent to hold units back and cover uncontested objectives or else you teleport in behind enemy lines and steal them. If you want a low model count list then TRs are a good way to offset the numbers advantage other players may have, as a 5 man unit of TRs can keep a much larger enemy unit pinned down. Again, SRs aren’t bad (they are really very good for the points) and you’ll see more of them at 2000 points. It’s just that a 1000 point game has some very different play considerations that you should consider when picking your battleline. You can use SRs at 1000 points, but they will do far less than TRs in many games. 

Having 6 Scythe Hunters and 3 Sword Hunters in your collection is pretty safe at 2000 points. You might not always use them all, but there are plenty of lists that will use one or both. Alarielle can summon a unit of 3 Kurnoths (she’ll want the swords) so it’s good to have them even if you don’t field them at the outset. Which order you get them in is a matter of personal preference. 

At least one SC box is definitely worth getting. Personally I have four - one for each Treelord (or variant) I own as they are the cheapest way to get treelords plus Dryads  and more Dryads are always useful. 

The Branchwych is of limited value. She’s actually good for the points, but we usually have other priorities - many other factions would jump at the chance of an 80 point wizard like her. I have two assembled and two on sprus - they sometimes see play in casual games. 

thanks, still interest why tournament list have only 15 SR and no other troops for screen and etc. Is Alarielle + drycha + druthu + 6 kurnoth  enought for 2k games to make all the work? this list take second place in 20ppl tournament, so thinking it is not so weak

Edited November 13, 2019 by simakover

[Landohammer]

14 hours ago, Sleepa said:

Swords are awesome, no doubt. My experience has been very different though, where terrain combined with Wyldwoods has really hamstrung my sword hunters and neutered their potency over and over again for me. I've had more than one engagement where my opponents have tactically charge them in such a way that I can only attack with one (when I root down for rerolls), or used endless spells to funnel their pile-in routes so I could only attack with one or two. In contrast, Scythe Hunters always get to fight in two ranks, so they have outperformed my swords every single time I've ran both in a list. 

I also don't think 9 is the only size you'd want Scythes in. I'm pretty sure half the reason you see 9-blocks in competitive lists is so you can lose 3 models by the time they engage, and still put up impressive damage output on the swing back.

Yea I think it boils down to how you play the hunters. If you are trying to alpha strike them with Teleports/Hive/Dreadwood then 6 Swords is possibly better. In those situations I'm either fighting first, or fighting something that is a favorable matchup. So I don't really care about the root. I want to hit as hard as possible and maximize casualties.

If you are using them defensively, say to protect an objective or to tank a scary unit you don't want to fight, then the Scythes are better. Scythes can always count on using their root and that is huge. 

Again though, the only real units that can do the kind of things you mentioned are super killy single models. But realistically if you find yourself in a situation where you are getting charged by an unfavorable combat with unfavorable terrain and a hostile endless spell perfectly placed, then in all fairness the loadout of your Hunters is probably irrelevant lol. 

That being said I still plan on bringing a unit of both Scythes and Swords in my competitive lists.

 

[Trevelyan]

6 hours ago, simakover said:

thanks, still interest why tournament list have only 15 SR and no other troops for screen and etc. Is Alarielle + drycha + druthu + 6 kurnoth  enought for 2k games to make all the work? this list take second place in 20ppl tournament, so thinking it is not so weak

People bring 15 SR for access to the Outcast battalion. Having Alarielle in the list allows people to summon an extra 20 Dryads when necessary (or more Kurnoths otherwise) so they have a screen, or bodies for objectives, as needed. Together with a Branchwraith, possibly boosted by an artefact, that’s plenty of chaff for a 2000 point game. 

[simakover]

So list im mention is good enought for competitive play. That better to use instead of knoght-incantor i mentioned?

[Trevelyan]

2 hours ago, simakover said:

So list im mention is good enought for competitive play. That better to use instead of knoght-incantor i mentioned?

Yup

[simakover]

2 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

Yup

im about that unit take insted of incantor? thanks

[Shmaravoz]

Has anyone run a list with 21 or 24 Kurnoth Hunters?  If so, what are your thoughts from a competitive stand point?

[Antikonoszero]

How would one deal with Fyreslayers? I have a friend who's got an army that features Hearthguard berserkers and magmadroths pretty heavily. He tends to run with a Battle-priest that always raises his banner every turn, and then runs into my forests, ignoring potential mortals from the trees and just beats me down. I usually end up spending my entire army to fight half of his army.  I try to maneuver around him but I can only do so much. The problem's gotten even worse now that he's started including Gotrek in his army and running the batalion that lets his Hearthguard fight twice every turn.

I picked up some endless spells and they helped until we actually learned that predatory means that occasionally he gets to move them in a direction he wants depending on random turn order.

Any advice? I just want to 'Axes > Trees' jokes to stop.

[simakover]

how overall winrates of Sylvaneth? im really like how they looks, and start collecting, but how they performs? 

[a74xhx]

On 10/31/2019 at 2:10 PM, a74xhx said:

I keep playing friendly matches against a colleague. so am finding ways of switching up my lists. Recently he was complaining my Kurnoths are overpowered, so I decided to create some lists without any. Trickier than I expected as  I just end up with Behemoths and Battleline.

My current favourite to try is the following Gnarlroot list. I think it's a little light on tar pits and bubblewrap around the big guys (just 30 models ignoring the tree revs), but the Wraith should be fairly solid in getting Dryads out, and Alarielle will spit out 20 of them. Hoping I should be fine with wood summoning too, as I didn't really want to switch out Drycha for an Ancient and rely on teleporting to get in the action.

 

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Gnarlroot
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Branchwraith (80)
- General
- Trait: Nurtured by Magic
- Artefact: Chalice of Nectar
- Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony
Alarielle the Everqueen (660)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Drycha Hamadreth (320)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Spirit of Durthu (340)
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike

10 x Spite-Revenants (120)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
10 x Dryads (100)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Outcasts (100)
Gladewyrm (30)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 78

Ok, so I finally managed to play this list. Was very worried about placing 1320 points in three models. I went for board control and defensive, with alpha strike. Stonger list than I was expecting, but not sure it would work in a tournament setting where I'm going to get shot quickly.

 

Setup
Setup front line, everything 24" from enemy. Out of range most spells, which are 18".

Two objectives my side, two the other.

I get the first turn due to fewer drops - 7 vs 8

 

Right side of the board:

Double sized starting wood in my side, far right. As far forward as possible. Branchwraith sits behind the wood, out of unbind range, close enough to wood for summoning. Summon using three dice (Gnarlroot), which only fails the once.

Tree Revs sit on my right objective for the entire game.

Alarielle summons wood as far forward as possible, and as near to enemy right side objective (same side as the summoning wood).
Durthu (ghyrstrike) and 10 Spites teleport. Shoots. Charges down length of wood (ensuring keeps +2 attacks), into enemy backline, but Spites fail the charge. Stomps, and destroys one Kurnoth-like unit in melee. 
In his turn, he counters by committing a big monster, locking them up for two turns. I teleport more Dryads as a sacrifice to lock him up for a third.  He ultimately wins, but is down to 2 wounds. Most importantly, no one takes that objective until then.
He tries to get down to my right objective, but fails. Even if he could get there, I would have teleported the Tree Revs over to his now uncovered objective.

Left side of the board:

Alarielle moves fairly central, but still in my side. Summons 20 Dryads which bubble wrap her and my left objective.
Throne of vines (eventually). Throws spells around. Shoots 30". Never gets into melee the whole game.

Two units of 5 spites plus 10 Dryads run to spread out across the left side of the board.
Drycha moves behind them, to exactly 18" from large target, shooting 20 attacks from turn one. Spell attacks from turn two.
I never charge anyone of this side of the board. Instead letting enemy charge and keeping combat spread out.
In my next turn I also summon another wood squeezed between my units and the enemy.
Enemy spends three turns moving, charging, and chewing through units, eventually breaking through to Drycha.
By this point, most things are dead. Even if he had have gotten through Drycha, then Alarielle and 20 Dryads awaited.

 

Scoring:
Every turn, I score my two objectives, while he scores his left one. Eventually he takes his right side objective. But it's not enough.

 

Gnarlroot:
Three dice to summon is amazing. I can never use the healing ability because I keep the wraith away from everything. Reroll 1s is good. The 6+ save I never even consider wasting a CP on.

What might have stopped me:
Turn one allowed me to get into position. But getting turn one really wasn't guaranteed.

Failing the wood drop and delaying Durthu a turn may have meant him gaining that objective and me unable to take it.
He didn't have any long range shooting.
He had lots of magic, but many spells failed and I had 4 usable unbinds.
He never was able to double turn me.
He left enough gaps for me to place woods where I wanted.
He was never able to throw large threats forward to my backline.

Edited November 17, 2019 by a74xhx
submitted too early

[simakover]

1 hour ago, a74xhx said:

Ok, so I finally managed to play this list. Was very worried about placing 1320 points in three models. I went for board control and defensive, with alpha strike. Stonger list than I was expecting, but not sure it would work in a tournament setting where I'm going to get shot quickly.

That is good for tournament? is sylvaneth a good choice for this? 

[a74xhx]

1 hour ago, simakover said:

That is good for tournament? is sylvaneth a good choice for this? 

If you want a general tourney list, then I would probably drop Alarielle for 9 Kurnoths and an Arch Revenant. Then switch Gnarlroot for Winterleaf. That's a reasonable starting place. There will be better variations earlier in the thread if you can find them.

 

[simakover]

6 hours ago, a74xhx said:

If you want a general tourney list, then I would probably drop Alarielle for 9 Kurnoths and an Arch Revenant. Then switch Gnarlroot for Winterleaf. That's a reasonable starting place. There will be better variations earlier in the thread if you can find them.

 

Mainly im about faction overall. Dont saw many lists in tournament

[simakover]

do you use some wyldwood replacement? like lasercut ring, etc

[Landohammer]

Just got back from a GT. Went 3-2 with both losses being to Slaanesh. My list is at the bottom. Here are my thoughts.

Alarielle performed well overall but mostly because of metamorphosis. That spell swung several games for me. Other than that she just jumped around grabbing objectives and getting aggro. The 4+ to hit on the beatle broke my heart several times. 

Hunters and Eels were, unsurprisingly, the star of the show. I found myself wishing I had more of each. I was pretty much always able to get 5 hunters in combat. 

Spites were middle of the road as expected. Treelord was hot garbage haha. 

Dreadwood was a solid glade, and I now definitively put it up there with Winterleaf in competitiveness. 

Slaanesh is a really big problem in the meta IMHO. They dominated (and won) this  tournament and my games vs them felt like a completely different experience. Looking forward to some nerfs to bring them back in line with the rest of AOS. 

 

Alarielle (treelord summon)

Branchwraith

20 Spites

20 Spites

5 Spites

6 Greatsword Hunters

6 Morrsarr Guard

Spiteswarm Hive

[Trevelyan]

7 hours ago, simakover said:

do you use some wyldwood replacement? like lasercut ring, etc

For friendly games I use some shapes cut from a foam battle mat, but for official events I generally use the real thing. Different tournaments have different expectations, but Sylvaneth can be a lot more expensive than other factions to play. That’s one of the reasons you may see less of them about. 

[kozokus]

19 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Treelord was hot garbage haha.

What is the general advice about treelords, i rarely see them.

Is the "no grove" an option witht he +2 charge aura?

[Trevelyan]

19 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Slaanesh is a really big problem in the meta IMHO. They dominated (and won) this  tournament and my games vs them felt like a completely different experience. Looking forward to some nerfs to bring them back in line with the rest of AOS.

That’s largely my experience too. Slaanesh can be beaten, and we’ve arguably got a better toolkit than most factions to do it, but you really have to play a completely different game and build a list with them in mind. 
 

The fact that every Slaanesh hero effectively has Stomp, and that every Slaanesh list has a built in Winterleaf double 6s to hit is tough enough. But add the ludicrous amount of easy summoning and you’ve basically got an entire faction that pulls together the best tricks we have available, does them all better and then starts adding extra features on top. 

I don’t know anyone who finds them remotely balanced, including local Slaanesh players (they all agree that the nerfbat is coming).