Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Daniel saxcloud]

Hello everyone, considering starting sylvaneth, as I have 16 dryads a branchwraith and two treeman. These two are a 5th Ed and a 7th ed ones.  Do you think I can have problem using these two as standard treemen? And isn't funny that even now the dryads come in units of ten but the boxes are of 16 models? Do you suggest to convert a pair of branchwraith/witch from the extra 2 I got if I buy a sc? 

[Primarch]

So I've been trying to figure out a list with Alarielle and more models on the table. Trying to get more models on the table means dropping batallions . I just wrote two lists, the first one looks as follows:

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders

Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
- Deepwood Spell : Verdant Blessing

Treelord Ancient (300) - General
- Command Trait : Gnarled Warrior
- Artefact : Briarsheath
- Deepwood Spell : Regrowth

Units

30 x Dryads (270)

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (220) -Scythes

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (220) -Scythes

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (220) -Greatbows

Total: 1990 / 2000 

The idea with this list is to use Alarielles and the TLAs healing and combat ability to help the hunters clear out threats, Alarielle will hopefully be able to get some more woods on the table to enable mobility for the hunters.

The second list looks like this:

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders

Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
- Deepwood Spell : Verdant Blessing

Treelord Ancient (300) - General
- Command Trait : Gnarled Warrior
- Artefact : Briarsheath
- Deepwood Spell : Regrowth

Branchwych (80)
- Deepwood Spell : Regrowth

Units

20 x Dryads (200)

20 x Dryads (200)

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (220) -Scythes

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (220) -Scythes 

Total: 1980 / 2000

Pretty much same idea as the last one but with 2x20 dryads for objective camping and a Branchwych for extra spellcasting. In this list I could drop one unit of Tree-Revs for an extra Branchwych but I don't know if it is worth it. This list also lacks ranged support from GB Hunters.

 

Please tell me what you think and if the lists look viable, I personally like the first one better beacuse I like hunters (even though 3 greatbows always seem to dissapoint me)

And as a side note, does using navigate realm roots to get out of combat still count as a retreat?

@Daniel saxcloud  I don't think using old models would be a problem as long as they are on the appropriate bases. As for the dryads, I'd say convert them.

[Lhw]

@Primarch, I think either list would have strengths. I'd probably go with the first one, but that's more just because I quite like having a unit of Bow Hunters around. I had tried something similar when GH2 dropped. I found it tough, as I was often not having choice of 1st turn and would then struggle to get woods down, as relying on the spell to do it and having limited places to put them. Having said that, I'd gone from a very similar list being part of Gnarlroot in GH2, so was used to playing it a different way. I think if you came to it fresh it could work, would just mean a different way of playing it. A piece of advice with making the bow hunters less useless is to hunt the damned. If there's damned on the board, try to get that side when deploying, put them on it and take it. With Alarielle's auto-heal, you normally only end up taking around 1 wound, or less. They'll still be useless at times, just less useless!

Technically navigate realmroots is no longer a retreat. As it is a setup, the last FAQ said that this doesn't count as retreat. Feels a bit cheesy doing it, but no reason you can't. 

[Primarch]

@Lhw Thanks for the input.  I've been playing Sylvaneth on and of since they dropped and usually put down a two base wood in the middle of the table to give me teleport options early game. But i agree with you that relying on casting verdant blessing  and rolling a 4+ on the TLAs ability can be difficult.  But I don't know if I dare to change the Briarsheat to Acorn but I guess it is doable.  Not having a one drop army is also a problem when it comes to  getting first turn but in my mind the problem with not getting first turn is getting mortal wound spamed more than having mobility issues. Alarielle is very mobile with her 16" move and with some luck i can get a wyldwood down to let the hunters and TLA teleport from. But I guess that playing with the army is the only way to see what works, I get why they pointed the batallions higher and it really makes you think on what you want to do. The 'tax' for Dreadwood is pretty heafty since I feel that the spites don't do much (might just be me playing them wrong) Gnarlroot is still good but I don't know if the prize is worth the extra spell and Verdonus Harmony....... choices choices...

[Axter]

@Primarch

About Gnarloot i can say that is still really a good battalion, also with the new cost. Those extra spell are really  good, i play it with just 2 casters (a TLA and a branchwych), it means that i have 4 spells, but probably i will add another branchwich to have 2 more spells every game. I can tell that all those spells are really usefull. Verdonus harmony is a key spell if used on a kurnoth hunter unit, awakening the wood to have mortal wound, regrowth always ready to keep TLA or Durthu alive, verdant blessing to have more wyldwood, treesong will add easy mortal wound, mistic shield always have to be casted on a big unit of dryads or schyte kurnoth and those are your 6 spells to cast every turn (eventually arcane bolt is always there to help). Add the possibility to have 2 bonus artifact and a deploy with one drop and those 250 points are totally worth. 

About Dreadwood i'm still waiting to buy all those spite-revenant to play it, when i'll try it i'll told you my thoughts. But the idea to alpha strike the enemy army or to bunker an objective in your first turn teleporting 30 dryads, maybe in a woods and with mystic shield, seems very reliable.

What i mean is: give battalions a try, if well builded and used they can really be funny and strong.

[Lhw]

@Primarch I know what you mean with the trade off between Acorn and Briarsheath - it seems hard giving up such a useful item for a 1 off one. I completely see your points about the cost of the battalions post GH2. If you get used to playing without it, then sure there is another way of playing them that doesn't use it being a 1 drop and having an Acorn. I'm going to give Dreadwood a try, not sure how it'll work - as you say, huge 'tax' for battalion and Spites. Trying to work out what use I can get out of the Spites. @Axter has a good point about the benefit of spells for Gnarls, especially if you can get them triggering a Wyldwood with an enemy in it. 

[Pestilens]

I really love to redeploy a 9 kurnot unit  with scyte in front  of enemy lines, it could vive u the right time to tale objective.

[vesco]

Hi, i'm having some troubles on winning against almost everyrthing: ironjaw,seraphon,flasheater.
Running this list at 1000 point:
- TLA
- Branchwych

-3 KH bow
-3 KH bow
-10 dryads

- 5 tree revenants

I get blasted everytime, also tried running scythe, and result got worst. I really like bow hunters and a more defensive playstyle since i think sylvaneth relies  on saves; the other guys i usually play against reroll failed rolls like crazy both to hit and to wound . Any, i don't know, suggestions?

I was also think on some drycha-spites related list, and let kh at home, but never used her not mounted yet, thoughts on this ?

[Keldaur]

To be honest, rather than the list it would be way more useful if you "battlereported" the games instead. If you are losing 4 games getting stomped it's way more likely that the faults are at play than at the list, which overall is fine except i would use one kurnouth hunters with scythes (since you have 10 dryads to screen them). So if you really want some help/guidance, it seems like a list would be of little help.

[vesco]

I see your point, maybe got just a little frustrated and like rage posted lol
I will come back with a report if I can; nevertheless what about some drycha-related lists?

[Axter]

Guys, in your opinions, are kurnoth hunters with bow still worth at that point? I have 6 kurnoth, all builded with bow, but in game i don't feel them to be that usefull, not for 440 points at least. That 4+ to hit is very meh, sure we can use a damned scenary, but we can't trust in it every game. For 240 point i prefer a treelord as now, in my game he make a lot. What do you think?

[Nick in York]

On 20/10/2017 at 11:42 AM, vesco said:

Hi, i'm having some troubles on winning against almost everyrthing: ironjaw,seraphon,flasheater.
Running this list at 1000 point:
- TLA
- Branchwych

-3 KH bow
-3 KH bow
-10 dryads

- 5 tree revenants

I get blasted everytime, also tried running scythe, and result got worst. I really like bow hunters and a more defensive playstyle since i think sylvaneth relies  on saves; the other guys i usually play against reroll failed rolls like crazy both to hit and to wound . Any, i don't know, suggestions?

I was also think on some drycha-spites related list, and let kh at home, but never used her not mounted yet, thoughts on this ?

I've played a fair few games at 1000 points now (have my first 1500 point game next week) and have had pretty good success.

My usual list is:

- TLA: Gift of Ghyran, Regrowth

- Branchwych: Silverwood Circlet, Verdant Blessing

- 3 Kurnoths bows

- 20 Dryads

- 5 Tree Revs

Either an allied Order wizard or another 10 dryads.

I set up a 2 base wyldwood in one deployment zone - ideally over an objective. If I win the roll off I'll choose the opposite deployment zone - this causes issues for my opponent when deploying. If they win they they either have to choose to pick side with wyldwood which will dictate their deployment or give it to me knowing they've gifted me my launchpad.

I keep the Tree-revs in the hidden enclaves usually until round 3 onwards. Their job is to take an objective once I've cleared that part of the table of enemy units.

I aim to get another 2 x 1 base wyldwoods down ASAP using the TLA's ability or the Branchwych's Verdant Blessing. It is a risk not taking the Acorn but the pay off is that with the Silverwood Circlet I can keep the Branchwych out of trouble whilst often being able to put a wyldwood down in my opponents deployment zone (if they've given me the board side with the wyldwood in at the start).

The 20 unit of dryads is used to hold an objective and will be in a wyldwood with Inspiring Presence and Mystic shield on them. They normally all die but it often takes until round 3 or 4 to finish them off by which time I can bring in another unit such as the tree-revs to hold it.

The Kurnoths try to keep out of trouble and use their shooting to harry my opponent. I'll try to back thier damage up with the TLA's missile attack and any Arcane bolts I can get off.

I tend to be fairly defensive and try as far as I can to use a combination of grinding my opponent down alongside hit and run tactics. 

I'm not a super competitive player and have played less than 10 games but I enjoy this style of play and think suits Sylvaneth.

I hope this helps. I feel that at lower points it can be difficult for Sylvaneth to play to our strengths. 

[Cerve]

7 hours ago, Axter said:

Guys, in your opinions, are kurnoth hunters with bow still worth at that point? I have 6 kurnoth, all builded with bow, but in game i don't feel them to be that usefull, not for 440 points at least. That 4+ to hit is very meh, sure we can use a damned scenary, but we can't trust in it every game. For 240 point i prefer a treelord as now, in my game he make a lot. What do you think?

I tend to use 2x3 Hunters with Scythes and just 3 wuth Bows, using the last only for killing support characters. Nothing more.  

I feel them usefull as snipers more than other. And in my last game against Chaos, I tried that composition and 3x1 Waywatchers heroes and they were amazing. Very easy to screen them with Dryads, and to get them some cover with a single Wyldwood in the back (keep careful to cast from more than 6"!) 

 

 

Anyway yes, we are far away from a Skyfire spam. Our shooting is not for hordes, but still useful for some focussed poke. 

Schytes still useful in my opinion. Scythes > Bows, or Scythes = Bows is my rule.

Never play Bows > Scythes. I'll feel myself naked without some good CC Hunters with me.

[Axter]

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

I tend to use 2x3 Hunters with Scythes and just 3 wuth Bows, using the last only for killing support characters. Nothing more.  

I feel them usefull as snipers more than other. And in my last game against Chaos, I tried that composition and 3x1 Waywatchers heroes and they were amazing. Very easy to screen them with Dryads, and to get them some cover with a single Wyldwood in the back (keep careful to cast from more than 6"!) 

 

 

Anyway yes, we are far away from a Skyfire spam. Our shooting is not for hordes, but still useful for some focussed poke. 

Schytes still useful in my opinion. Scythes > Bows, or Scythes = Bows is my rule.

Never play Bows > Scythes. I'll feel myself naked without some good CC Hunters with me.

Yeah, i think you are right, indeed i'm thinking of buying 6 more hunter and build them with schyte. About waywatcher spam i was thinking to use it some weeks ago, and maybe someday i will, but for now i prefer buying more hunters and some wyldwood (sooooo much expensive) so i'll be ready for some tournament (i'm still playng with proxy wood made with paper)

[Aezeal]

On 18-10-2017 at 2:09 PM, Daniel saxcloud said:

Hello everyone, considering starting sylvaneth, as I have 16 dryads a branchwraith and two treeman. These two are a 5th Ed and a 7th ed ones.  Do you think I can have problem using these two as standard treemen? And isn't funny that even now the dryads come in units of ten but the boxes are of 16 models? Do you suggest to convert a pair of branchwraith/witch from the extra 2 I got if I buy a sc? 

Has this been answered?

Anyway: you can use them but might consider rebasing them. The big stick guys are somewhat in scale but if you have the smaller squat ones then they'll look a bit odd.. being smaller than kurnoths if Im not mistaken..

I wouldn't mind conversions .. but a somewhat decent conversion for a wych would include a scythe I'd say which might be hard to get without buying a box of hunters. Just giving them a different paint scheme and using them as proxies (instead of real conversions - is always an option).

[Lhw]

I'm going to be using Dreadwood this weekend, at Blood & Glory. I've had very little chance to get any practice games in with it, think I'll have done 3 before the weekend. Any advice from those of you more experienced with it? @Mirage8112 and @DantePQ? I'll be doing every scenario, as it is a 6 game tourney, so anything at all you've noticed whilst playing with it would be appreciated. 

[Ratatatata]

2 hours ago, Lhw said:

I'm going to be using Dreadwood this weekend, at Blood & Glory. I've had very little chance to get any practice games in with it, think I'll have done 3 before the weekend. Any advice from those of you more experienced with it? @Mirage8112 and @DantePQ? I'll be doing every scenario, as it is a 6 game tourney, so anything at all you've noticed whilst playing with it would be appreciated. 

Nr one advise is to not throw away a unit just because you "can". With dreadwood it can be tempting to use the first strategem to alpha-strike with your unit of hunters. Keep a cool head. Use the strategems for playing the long game. I´ve used the re-deploy strategem sometimes to just launch a branchwraith forwards to plant a forest close to the enemy lines 

Don't forget the extra effects that the dreadwood and outcast battalions gives your units of spites.

I struggle with total conquest because it stretches my army out. I'm not sure if that is dreadwood-specifik or just my lack of ability to play the scenario though

[Paul G]

2 hours ago, Ratatatata said:

Nr one advise is to not throw away a unit just because you "can". With dreadwood it can be tempting to use the first strategem to alpha-strike with your unit of hunters. Keep a cool head. Use the strategems for playing the long game. I´ve used the re-deploy strategem sometimes to just launch a branchwraith forwards to plant a forest close to the enemy lines 

Yep, don't be drawn in to throwing away your 6 scythes (or equivalent) using the redeploy needlessly, focus on what would be best in the scenario, could be redeployed 30 dryads onto an objective or using the anti-shooting strategem for example.

[Lhw]

Cheers both. That very much echoes what I'd been thinking too myself, which is reassuring. Chucking a Wraith/Wych forward to put the Acorn down was something I'd also considered. Was wondering in what kind of situation would actually be worth it though - maybe Beastclaw Raiders? 

Interesting to hear Total Conquest is a struggle. I'd thought that Starstrike might be, hadn't thought too much about Total Conquest, but can see how it might be. 

[Tizianolol]

Guys im curuious about 1 thing of this army. I know that Italia pretty important go as 1 for sylvaneth because of woods but now Gnarloot meta battalion Is nerfed so:

- i better find a new battalion for a 1 drop army?

- or who care about 1 drop just build a strong list? 

Thx for you opinions:)

[MayItBe]

/possible bad english warning/

Hey

Week ago i was attending two day tournament in Poland with gnarlroot list.

Ancient
-Oaken armour / Gnarled warrior / Regrowth
Drycha
- Verdant Blessing
Branchwych
- Acorn / Throne of Vines

20 Dryads
10 Dryads
5 Revenants

2x3 Kurnoth Bows
3 Kurnoth Scythes

Household / Gnarlroot

50pts left for triumph [could merge dryads to 30 and take another revenants, but they are my last unpainted models and i wanted to go 100% painted to gain additional points]

First game vs Kroak Seraphon
My opponent couldn't cast vortex 3 turns in a row which helped me much, but I play a lot of Kroak lists lately, so i knew what to do. Bows were crucial to snipe off his skinks heroes.
Second Game vs Soulblight
easiest win in whole tournament, my opponent was post-wfb player and probably didn't know that charging my Ancient with rend-1 weapon is very bad idea i lost only 10 dryads and branchwych, which was in fact granted to him with my poor deployment.
Third Game vs Skaven (tripple verminlords)
My opponent was not aware that Verminlord are not SKAVEN and he could not hide assassins in one of them, but in 4th turn when i checked warscrolls it was too late. Hard game for me because i gambled on objectives (total conquest) and lost all initiative rolls but the last one, i've won by 1 point.
day1 was over and I was first, my clubmate with fyreslayers was second, and we knew that we will play each other the next day.
Fourth Game vs Fyreslayers
I won deployment and it decided whole game (1 drop vs 1 drop). He couldn't get past buffed dryads in cover for four turns, while my hunters roamed on his side of the boards with miraculous charge rolls and burned all his objectives (scorched earth).
Fifth Game vs Changehost
Last game vs propably best player (and army) in the whole tournament, but he unlucky lost one game vs Fyreslayers and because of that we met in last game. I knew that i will loose, but i calculated that even if he tables me i'll be able to claim 1st place, because of 100% painted army (and receiving more points for it than DoT player). That one moment in life i knew it was worth it! Painted minis wins tournaments

Summary:
Drycha underperformed. Without Loremaster to buff her and large amount of horde armies she was not worth her points. But still, the model is beautiful so she will stay.
Bows was key in snipping buffing heroes. I'm really thinking about leaving scythes and taking 3rd units of Bows. armoured foes i could still kill in wyldwoods, as I play quite defensively: plant the woods, and wait for enemy to come in, then unleash magic.
1-drop was crucial! Maybe not in UK, but in our 'local meta' having a chance to freely plant woods and snipe off characters before they buff up is very important in my play style.

 

Thx for reading!

[Ratatatata]

29 minutes ago, MayItBe said:

/possible bad english warning/

Hey

Week ago i was attending two day tournament in Poland with gnarlroot list.

Ancient
-Oaken armour / Gnarled warrior / Regrowth
Drycha
- Verdant Blessing
Branchwych
- Acorn / Throne of Vines

20 Dryads
10 Dryads
5 Revenants

2x3 Kurnoth Bows
3 Kurnoth Scythes

Household / Gnarlroot

50pts left for triumph [could merge dryads to 30 and take another revenants, but they are my last unpainted models and i wanted to go 100% painted to gain additional points]

First game vs Kroak Seraphon
My opponent couldn't cast vortex 3 turns in a row which helped me much, but I play a lot of Kroak lists lately, so i knew what to do. Bows were crucial to snipe off his skinks heroes.
Second Game vs Soulblight
easiest win in whole tournament, my opponent was post-wfb player and probably didn't know that charging my Ancient with rend-1 weapon is very bad idea i lost only 10 dryads and branchwych, which was in fact granted to him with my poor deployment.
Third Game vs Skaven (tripple verminlords)
My opponent was not aware that Verminlord are not SKAVEN and he could not hide assassins in one of them, but in 4th turn when i checked warscrolls it was too late. Hard game for me because i gambled on objectives (total conquest) and lost all initiative rolls but the last one, i've won by 1 point.
day1 was over and I was first, my clubmate with fyreslayers was second, and we knew that we will play each other the next day.
Fourth Game vs Fyreslayers
I won deployment and it decided whole game (1 drop vs 1 drop). He couldn't get past buffed dryads in cover for four turns, while my hunters roamed on his side of the boards with miraculous charge rolls and burned all his objectives (scorched earth).
Fifth Game vs Changehost
Last game vs propably best player (and army) in the whole tournament, but he unlucky lost one game vs Fyreslayers and because of that we met in last game. I knew that i will loose, but i calculated that even if he tables me i'll be able to claim 1st place, because of 100% painted army (and receiving more points for it than DoT player). That one moment in life i knew it was worth it! Painted minis wins tournaments

Summary:
Drycha underperformed. Without Loremaster to buff her and large amount of horde armies she was not worth her points. But still, the model is beautiful so she will stay.
Bows was key in snipping buffing heroes. I'm really thinking about leaving scythes and taking 3rd units of Bows. armoured foes i could still kill in wyldwoods, as I play quite defensively: plant the woods, and wait for enemy to come in, then unleash magic.
1-drop was crucial! Maybe not in UK, but in our 'local meta' having a chance to freely plant woods and snipe off characters before they buff up is very important in my play style.

 

Thx for reading!

Congratulations! Seems well deserved, you played a wide variety of lists for sure. Interesting with the triple verminlord- list, that's something you don't see every day  

Did you think the gnarlroot was wort the cost? I've stayed away from gnarlroot since GHII due to the cost. But looking at your list there's still some punch there. Although I don't know if I'd dare to play with so few models (dryads) myself. 

I fall more and more in love with Drycha each time I've used her. I guess you had the squirmlings and not the.. flitter furies? 

[Ratatatata]

2 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys im curuious about 1 thing of this army. I know that Italia pretty important go as 1 for sylvaneth because of woods but now Gnarloot meta battalion Is nerfed so:

- i better find a new battalion for a 1 drop army?

- or who care about 1 drop just build a strong list? 

Thx for you opinions:)

Dreadwood, possibly. Or Winterleaf. Or the one where you get +1 to charges. I think there´s some battalions that could see good use. As for gnarlroot, obviously @MayItBe have had some success with it  

[Ratatatata]

4 hours ago, Lhw said:

Cheers both. That very much echoes what I'd been thinking too myself, which is reassuring. Chucking a Wraith/Wych forward to put the Acorn down was something I'd also considered. Was wondering in what kind of situation would actually be worth it though - maybe Beastclaw Raiders? 

Interesting to hear Total Conquest is a struggle. I'd thought that Starstrike might be, hadn't thought too much about Total Conquest, but can see how it might be. 

If at all possible I want a forest in my deployment zone, at least one in the middle and one or more in the enemies deployment zone. That is easier said than done. So that's why I've used the branch sometimes. Depends on the scenario and terrain on the board obviously  

Maybe my failure to play total conquest is down to me and not the dreadwood battalion... hehe. 

[Tizianolol]

@MayItBe

you said drycha unperformed but you dont wanna remove her.

if you change idea what can be a good add? Maybe a brenchwhytch and +3 bow hunters? Or wytch and +3 scythes for a block of 6 scythes?:)