Immersturm Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 I used to be like you, but now I sort of became anti-dragon. I shelved my Dracoths and stopped working on my Stardrake altogether. Paladins and Prime all the way man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryMou3e Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Thought about getting a prime just to have one. Haven't given them any thought as they seem very expensive, happy to be corrected [emoji16]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immersturm Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Prime needs synergy. Just tossing him at the opponent will net you wasted points and a broken heart. I use him together with a Relictor, who can keep him alive and the Hammerstrike Force. The key is the flexibility of either getting him down T1 to help the Judicators, Prosecutors and heroes with ranged abilites to do ranged damage, sometimes even going for the -2Br to maximize the damage and snipe key component of the list, or to have him wait and push with the melee elements. Usually I wall him off with my Liberators, just to keep him alive and throwing bombs. Against other lists I keep him in reserve a bit longer and have him strike with the Paladins from the Hammerstrike. Generally, I like this flexibility as it keeps the opponent on edge. If the game is intense, some even forget that there is a Prime and Paladins coming, especially if they are not in his immediate field of view but somewhere behind me or in the box. However, outside of this I would prefer the Stardrake over the Prime. The Drake is far better as a stand-alone model and naturally a better fit for aggressive Dracoth lists. But as I said, I caught the Ultramarine bug and so I have been moving away from big dragons and towards bit armoured warriors killing said dragons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 59 minutes ago, Immersturm said: I shelved my Dracoths and stopped working on my Stardrake altogether. What made you make that choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immersturm Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Just now, kozokus said: What made you make that choice? 42 minutes ago, Immersturm said: [...] I caught the Ultramarine bug and so I have been moving away from big dragons and towards bit armoured warriors killing said dragons Nothing, that is relevant to performance or rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 For me, the problem of the celestant on stardrake is that the celestant on dracoth hit as strong, if not stronger, for 380 pts less. It's a shame. By the way, does ayone found sucess with a vanguard chamber list. Even something very basic like this Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLeadersLord-Aquilor (200)- General- Trait: Champion of the Realms - Artefact: Strife-ender - Gryph-Charger Trait: Aethereal StalkerLord-Aquilor (200)- Artefact: Strife-ender - Gryph-Charger Trait: Aethereal StalkerBattleline10 x Vanguard-Hunters (280)- Stormcast Eternals Battleline (Lord Aquilor General)10 x Vanguard-Hunters (280)- Stormcast Eternals Battleline (Lord Aquilor General)10 x Vanguard-Hunters (280)- Stormcast Eternals Battleline (Lord Aquilor General)Units3 x Vanguard-Palladors (220)3 x Vanguard-Palladors (220)3 x Vanguard-Palladors (220)BattalionsVanguard Angelos Conclave (100)Total: 2000/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried VII Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I've used an almost pure Vanguard List with great sucess in the past month or so. I have won a tournament, I have helped my team win a team tournament scoring 3/3 wins and with the exception of one battle that I lost VS Seraphon due to the rule the skinks have about retreating in combat, the list is undefeated. Here it is in case it is of interest to anyone: x1 Lord Aquilor: 200pts Command Trait: Staunch Defender. Enchanted Armour: Mirrorshield. Gryph-Charger Trait: Aethereal Stalker x1 Knight Venator: 120pts x1 Knight Venator: 120pts x1 Knight Venator: 120pts x5 Liberators: 100pts Warhammers and Sigmarite Shields, Prime with Grandhammer. x5 Vanguard Hunters: 140pts Storm Sabres, Prime with Astral Compass. x5 Vanguard Hunters: 140pts Storm Sabres, Prime with Astral Compass. x6 Vanguard Palladors: 440pts Starstrike Javelins. x3 Vanguard Palladors: 220pts Starstrike Javelins. x6 Vanguard Raptors: 360pts Longstrike Crossbows. x1 Gryph Hound: 40pts Total Army Cost: 2000pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Interesting. Is there any subtilety worth noticing about your list? It lack the usual filth we see thoses days on SE lists, hammerstrike, aetherstrike, blablabla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryMou3e Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I love all the palladors in that list. I can only afford 3 in pts in my2k but I bet 9 on the table is horrible for your opponents Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyph88 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I Used a vanguard list in a local tournament last week. Lord Aquilor Lord Veritant 3X 5 hunters 2X 3 Raptors with Hurricanes 3 Raptors with longstrike 3 X3 Aetherwings Did very well, came 5th, the only other two stormcadt players did very well and came 1st and 2nd. Since the event i have been working on draccoths and paladins trying to nake something more survivable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried VII Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 3 hours ago, kozokus said: Interesting. Is there any subtilety worth noticing about your list? It lack the usual filth we see thoses days on SE lists, hammerstrike, aetherstrike, blablabla. I admit that at first sight it seems not in line with everything that is in fashion these days but the results speak for themselves. With this list I tabled a very powerful destruction list that had 4 Thundertusk Huskards and a horde of Night Goblins to protect them (everything died to a man), I beat a powerful Tomb King list (with Settra, Necrosphinx etc...), I even managed to beat a Tzeench list sporting 18 Skyfires. The key element of the list is the Lord Aquilor as he gives me the ability to take my Raptors and go almost anywhere and shoot what I want without risking them at the beginning of the game by setting them up in the front. Actually almost the whole army is deployed at the back. My opponents have a difficult time dealing with this list because I can be anywhere and I can go anywhere. The 3 man Pallador units is for support and I tend to send them to a flank to deal with certain units, while the 6 man unit is my main close combat damage dealers. They are not the most tough unit in the game but the -2 rend of the Fryph Chargers packs a punch. Also with 6d6 movement I can redeploy them without the Aquilor very easily. The Hunters are for warmachine/wizard hunting and also to grab objectives or harass the back lines of my opponent, while the Liberators and the Gryph Hound are for objective grabbing and act as sacrificial units when I need them to. As for the Knights Venator they act as monster/hero killers and with their 12 movement and 30" range they can be very mobile and also help me in the Three Places of Power scenario. All in all the list is extremely mobile and plays for the objectives while removing surgically key elements of the enemy. It requires good generalship to handle and it is not an army that you can simply push forward and expect it to smash faces but it can be very rewarding and fun to play in my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 3 Venators?! 9 Palladors?! 6 Raptors!? That's a nice list. I had the theory when the new book released that Vanguard Chamber lists would emerge stronger than the old way. They'd be hit and run sometimes packing a heavy shooting punch. The current favouritism towards shooting heavy lists means they're well placed to take advantage of that but also counter other shooty lists with their flexible movement tricks. They're true shooting alpha strike. I predicted it would be delayed because people need to at least buy masses of models (I for one would also need to paint everything - that's my way) and test them out. The 'new old way' was already part tried and tested. So things like CV Chamber or just a big fat hammerstrike would see early and continued successes. The old way hybridised with the new wouldn't be playing to the strengths of the full new way or sticking to a new variation of the old way. The exception to that being Aetherstrike - a battalion pretty much made to be the optimal hybrid (built right) - with the main star in the list is the big raptor unit. Your list though I really like. The 3 venators are old models but I feel they are truly new way. Fast and shooty. I need to buy and paint more vanguard chamber! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryMou3e Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Vanguard justicar of hurricanes I feel is underrated [emoji6]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried VII Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 23 minutes ago, Turragor said: 3 Venators?! 9 Palladors?! 6 Raptors!? That's a nice list. I had the theory when the new book released that Vanguard Chamber lists would emerge stronger than the old way. They'd be hit and run sometimes packing a heavy shooting punch. The current favouritism towards shooting heavy lists means they're well placed to take advantage of that but also counter other shooty lists with their flexible movement tricks. They're true shooting alpha strike. I predicted it would be delayed because people need to at least buy masses of models (I for one would also need to paint everything - that's my way) and test them out. The 'new old way' was already part tried and tested. So things like CV Chamber or just a big fat hammerstrike would see early and continued successes. The old way hybridised with the new wouldn't be playing to the strengths of the full new way or sticking to a new variation of the old way. The exception to that being Aetherstrike - a battalion pretty much made to be the optimal hybrid (built right) - with the main star in the list is the big raptor unit. Your list though I really like. The 3 venators are old models but I feel they are truly new way. Fast and shooty. I need to buy and paint more vanguard chamber! In the fluff Knights Venator are in reality part of the Vanguard, the way I read it at least. They are just old models. Game-wise I wanted characters with movement and good save to go and get me objectives in the 3 Places of Power scenario and I wanted to be able to remove key characters at a distance. The 42" threat range of the Knight Venator is awesome for this. Finaly I thought that if I wanted the Star-Fated Arrow to actually do something I had to play the odds. So with 3 such shots you have much greater possibility to put the hurt. Also in my list almost everything shoots and all this tends to add up in the damage little by little. I can totally understand where you come from in terms of painting the whole army. At the time of the release of the new Stormcast battletome I already had 6000pts of fully painted Stormcast but I didn't want to paint anymore gold, so the above list was bought with new fresh models and fully painted from the beginning (now that I think of it I now have over 8000pts of Stromcast) in the colours of the Celestial Knights. And even now that I want to try to play again with some of the "old" units I am changing the main colour of my 6000pts golden stormcast to a more bronze/crimson one (mainly with the use of washes) and feel a bit overwhelmed by the task at hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louzi Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 21.5.2017 at 2:15 AM, Siegfried VII said: I've used an almost pure Vanguard List with great sucess in the past month or so. I have won a tournament, I have helped my team win a team tournament scoring 3/3 wins and with the exception of one battle that I lost VS Seraphon due to the rule the skinks have about retreating in combat, the list is undefeated. Here it is in case it is of interest to anyone: x1 Lord Aquilor: 200pts Command Trait: Staunch Defender. Enchanted Armour: Mirrorshield. Gryph-Charger Trait: Aethereal Stalker x1 Knight Venator: 120pts x1 Knight Venator: 120pts x1 Knight Venator: 120pts x5 Liberators: 100pts Warhammers and Sigmarite Shields, Prime with Grandhammer. x5 Vanguard Hunters: 140pts Storm Sabres, Prime with Astral Compass. x5 Vanguard Hunters: 140pts Storm Sabres, Prime with Astral Compass. x6 Vanguard Palladors: 440pts Starstrike Javelins. x3 Vanguard Palladors: 220pts Starstrike Javelins. x6 Vanguard Raptors: 360pts Longstrike Crossbows. x1 Gryph Hound: 40pts Total Army Cost: 2000pts I like this list alot. But in my opinion 6 huricanes > 6 longstrikes. Especially because you have enough snipers in this list and I think you would struggle with hordes. And I also think, that the Celestant Prime would fit perfectly in this list. Just skip the 3 Palladors and 1 Venator and you have another big threat that can help your unit of 6 Palladors to get rid of really nasty things like a Stonehorn or a Stardrake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried VII Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 The Huricanes are not a good unit in my opinion. They lack rend and they lack range, both of wich are essential in the game in my opinion. To make things worse their ability to shoot with 9 attacks each triggers only if they haven't moved. With 18" range it is highly unlikely that you will want to stay still with them and the command ability of the Aquilor counts them as having moved so you can't teleport them and get those nice bonus attacks. At their points I much prefer the Judicators with Skybolt Bows. Battleline, better range, rend and also much more resillient with 4 more wounds... As for the Celestant Prime I will give it some thought, perhaps he can fit nicely in the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immersturm Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 After having tried both, here is what I can say. They perform about the same. However, the Longstrikes are much more subject to variance, given their low amount of shots. This goes both ways, seeing as the Longstrikes can explode and really put the hurt on high armour targets. The Hurricanes are more dependable in that regard. So if you don't mind the occasional jumpy performance, I suppose Longstrikes are for you. Me, I do not gamble. So I prefer Hurricanes (or rather Judicators as of late). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryMou3e Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 After having tried both, here is what I can say. They perform about the same. However, the Longstrikes are much more subject to variance, given their low amount of shots. This goes both ways, seeing as the Longstrikes can explode and really put the hurt on high armour targets. The Hurricanes are more dependable in that regard. So if you don't mind the occasional jumpy performance, I suppose Longstrikes are for you. Me, I do not gamble. So I prefer Hurricanes (or rather Judicators as of late).Having been a previous fan of 6 longstrikes in a unit, yes they can hurt, but get focused hard. I love how well hurricanes perform in comparison. They chew through low save low wound blobs and can still put wounds on meatier targets (law of averages with so many dice!) I have terrible luck with shock bolt procs on judes .......Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immersturm Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I can relate, but the Judis seem a safer choice, seeing as they are Batteline and even though the shock bolt bow is a bit jumpy with it's D6 roll, they perform pretty well most of the time, unless you decide the get greedy and split their fire, at which point random chance will ****** you over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryMou3e Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I can relate, but the Judis seem a safer choice, seeing as they are Batteline and even though the shock bolt bow is a bit jumpy with it's D6 roll, they perform pretty well most of the time, unless you decide the get greedy and split their fire, at which point random chance will ****** you over.That's always my dilemma. If I split, it doesn't proc, if I focus I over kill. RNJesus Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immersturm Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 minute ago, CountryMou3e said: That's always my dilemma. If I split, it doesn't proc, if I focus I over kill. RNJesus Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That is why I never gamble, if I can help it. If I need something dead, I play it safe. I do not trust in chance as much as good planning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolderiz101 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 i have a question here do you still shoot 30 inches if you teleport longstrike with relictor lightning chariot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louzi Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Siegfried VII said: The Huricanes are not a good unit in my opinion. They lack rend and they lack range, both of wich are essential in the game in my opinion. To make things worse their ability to shoot with 9 attacks each triggers only if they haven't moved. With 18" range it is highly unlikely that you will want to stay still with them and the command ability of the Aquilor counts them as having moved so you can't teleport them and get those nice bonus attacks. At their points I much prefer the Judicators with Skybolt Bows. Battleline, better range, rend and also much more resillient with 4 more wounds... As for the Celestant Prime I will give it some thought, perhaps he can fit nicely in the list. Are you sure about the Aquilor command ability and the attack bonus for the hurricanes? Iam pretty sure they get the extra attack, because you set them up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried VII Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Louzi said: Are you sure about the Aquilor command ability and the attack bonus for the hurricanes? Iam pretty sure they get the extra attack, because you set them up... Yep. Read the Astral Compass ability and you'll see that when the unit enters play it is considered their move for that movement phase. So unfortunately you can't use the 30" range of the longstrikes or the 9 attacks of the Huricanes... 8 minutes ago, bolderiz101 said: i have a question here do you still shoot 30 inches if you teleport longstrike with relictor lightning chariot You Sir are brilliant!! I just checked the Lightning Chariot rule and it says that you remove the unit and set it up in the hero phase and it just adds at the end that you cannot move in the next movement phase, so with the Lightning Chariot you can move both the Long strikes and the Huricanes into position AND benefit from their abilities that require them not moving in the movement phase. Heck that can make even the Judicators with Crossbows playable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Indeed lightning chariot is one of those rare setups that doesn't count as a move which has many uses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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