Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Nico]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but presumably the Stormcast Eternal units come down in the movement phase (after the hero phase) and so are too late to receive or fire and forget buffs like prayers or pick a unit Command Abilities. If the buffs are passive auras, then they will benefit from those. This is probably a deliberate trade off - deploy on table and receive a buff or come down in a flexible location, but don't.

[BURF1]

I wouldn't even bother dropping anything but the azyros, unless they had some serious reach out and touch you power, lightning chariot gives you all the mobility you need and doesn't reduce your range and you basically own the center portion of the board and you only have 9 drops so you'll have a decent chance of picking who goes first. Set up so that you pin them to the board edge of they let you go first and can blast them to pieces if the give you the chance at the double turn.

[Turragor]

14 minutes ago, Nico said:

Perhaps I'm missing something, but presumably the Stormcast Eternal units come down in the movement phase (after the hero phase) and so are too late to receive or fire and forget buffs like prayers or pick a unit Command Abilities. If the buffs are passive auras, then they will benefit from those. This is probably a deliberate trade off - deploy on table and receive a buff or come down in a flexible location, but don't.

Yes I'm suffering from thinking too much before reading the tome.

In any case I like the idea of new tricks.

[rokapoke]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

Could you not just stay off the table until then with the Battle Trait.

I dunno, I haven't looked at the Battle Traits and such.

[Immersturm]

What is the general opinion on the new units and how would they fit in? I am quite fond of the Raptors, the Hurricane ones in particular.

However, I am not quite sure what to think of the Palladors. They seem to be fairly okay against armour with their Rend javelins and -2 beaks. However, they are still softer and weaker than Dracoths. They are way faster, so perhaps as a last second objective grab? I would perhaps gear them for range since they can't charge after their big jump.

Ideas?

[Requizen]

I'm eyeing up the Vexillor now, even with the nerfed banner. You can still fire a unit across the board and then walk with your units to give the reroll charge bubble. Between the loss of Reckless, his reduced point cost, and the nerf/removal of mega-alpha strike lists, I feel like he's quite a competitive option now.

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[Nico]

One point that came from the Livestream is that for all the units that you voluntarily put in the Celestial Realm (as opposed to deploying them on the table), you have to roll the 3+ for every unit to try to bring the units down every movement phase. This is quite a shift, as you will not be able to hold them back (unless they are (a) deployed on the table or (b) deployed pursuant to some other special deployment rule, e.g. a Battalion)).

[Siegfried VII]

14 minutes ago, Nico said:

One point that came from the Livestream is that for all the units that you voluntarily put in the Celestial Realm (as opposed to deploying them on the table), you have to roll the 3+ for every unit to try to bring the units down every movement phase. This is quite a shift, as you will not be able to hold them back (unless they are (a) deployed on the table or (b) deployed pursuant to some other special deployment rule, e.g. a Battalion)).

The Scions of the Storm seems worse and worse by the minute...

Compared to the past we are seeing a big downgrade regarding the deep striking units of the army. Now I don't mind because I am not a big fan of the deep strike kind of play and the way to play Stormcast Etarnals was way too bland and lacking in strategy to an extent.

What seems apparent now is that the army will have to play in a different way. The old ways are gone me thinks...

[wayniac]

26 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

The Scions of the Storm seems worse and worse by the minute...

Compared to the past we are seeing a big downgrade regarding the deep striking units of the army. Now I don't mind because I am not a big fan of the deep strike kind of play and the way to play Stormcast Etarnals was way too bland and lacking in strategy to an extent.

What seems apparent now is that the army will have to play in a different way. The old ways are gone me thinks...

Yeah, i can't say I'm happy about not being able to choose when I want my troops held in reserve to come on the board.

[Requizen]

It's now just the 40k style, which has always been hit or miss (unless you have a way to manipulate reserves like Drop Pods).

You can no longer build an army around a massive turn 1 or 2 landing and smashing. But, you can put a couple support units in the Celestial Realm and drop them down. Crossbow Judicators and Raptors who need to be close to put out damage are a good pick, and of they don't come down til later it's not a huge loss.

Only putting a few small, non "core" units in the sky is the way to go now. Everything else will be on the table but will use buffs and mobility tricks. So yeah, it's essentially a completely different army.

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[BURF1]

Hammerstrike force still works the same(leaked picture on faeit) So you drop the prosecutors somewhere safe and follow the retributors/protectors. Basically warrior brotherhood works exactly the same but is cheaper and very slightly less reliable. I do think though that stormcasts are going to be very strong with hardcore shooting focus.

[Cinncinnatus]

Don't most of the Battalions now give you an optional +/- 2 for Scions of the Storm now? I read that somewhere, and it seems like that would work well. Combine a Hammerstike, Thunderhead, and possibly some Lords of the Storm (I think that's what it is called) and you have three battalion drops. 

Granted, on a 5/6 you'd have to bring something in. But at least you'd have some say about when things come in.

Of course maybe that's not the case! Maybe that wasn't right at all and I've wasted your time!

[Requizen]

Hammerstrike force still works the same(leaked picture on faeit) So you drop the prosecutors somewhere safe and follow the retributors/protectors. Basically warrior brotherhood works exactly the same but is cheaper and very slightly less reliable. I do think though that stormcasts are going to be very strong with hardcore shooting focus.

Yes, Hammerstrike is going to be quite common. But that not quite the same as having Warrior Brotherhood. Still a very good Alpha Strike option, though. Celestial Vindicators will be one of the seen Stormhosts because of that.

Don't most of the Battalions now give you an optional +/- 2 for Scions of the Storm now? I read that somewhere, and it seems like that would work well. Combine a Hammerstike, Thunderhead, and possibly some Lords of the Storm (I think that's what it is called) and you have three battalion drops. 
Granted, on a 5/6 you'd have to bring something in. But at least you'd have some say about when things come in.
Of course maybe that's not the case! Maybe that wasn't right at all and I've wasted your time!

The +/-2 is only if you max out all the optional Battalions, which if I'm adding right is impossible for any of them at 2000 points.

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[BURF1]

8 minutes ago, Cinncinnatus said:

Don't most of the Battalions now give you an optional +/- 2 for Scions of the Storm now? I read that somewhere, and it seems like that would work well. Combine a Hammerstike, Thunderhead, and possibly some Lords of the Storm (I think that's what it is called) and you have three battalion drops. 

Granted, on a 5/6 you'd have to bring something in. But at least you'd have some say about when things come in.

Of course maybe that's not the case! Maybe that wasn't right at all and I've wasted your time!

To get that bonus with the battalions is usually something like 3000 points at the minimum, the 'play like the novels!(so hard not to add dismissive onomanapia to that) Stormhost battalions are entirely intended for narrative play and are simply too expensive(and underwhelming) to be useful in matches play. 

[Knight-Errant]

Minimum units. You need to add battleline to some of them.

 

 

Knights Excelsior		3280
Celestial Vindicators		4820
Celestial Warbringers		2100
Tempest Lords		2280
Hammers of Sigmar		4680	14640	MAX LOL
Hallowed Knights		4560
Anvils of the Heldenhammer		4700
Astral Templars		3100

 

[BURF1]

1 hour ago, Knight-Errant said:

Minimum units. You need to add battleline to some of them.

 

 

Knights Excelsior		3280
Celestial Vindicators		4820
Celestial Warbringers		2100
Tempest Lords		2280
Hammers of Sigmar		4680	14640	MAX LOL
Hallowed Knights		4560
Anvils of the Heldenhammer		4700
Astral Templars		3100

 

So yeah you can pretty much tear out the pages with the max battalion bonuses.

[Siegfried VII]

5 hours ago, BURF1 said:

Hammerstrike force still works the same(leaked picture on faeit) So you drop the prosecutors somewhere safe and follow the retributors/protectors. Basically warrior brotherhood works exactly the same but is cheaper and very slightly less reliable. I do think though that stormcasts are going to be very strong with hardcore shooting focus.

Hammerstrike force can work for 2 units of paladins (not as powerful as before though as they do not get the reroll 1s to wound and +1 bravery or the immune to battleshock from the Skyborne Slayers) and still you have to roll for the Retributors to come. They may come to soon, or too late or not at all.

This is not a great strategy and has many risks.

The safe way will be imo to have the Prosecutors on the table from the get go, which again has its risks and limits the way the other guys will arrive...

[Nico]

I don't think you do need to roll for the Hammerstrike Force Paladins to deploy as they are deployed pursuant to a different rule than the Scions one. Same with Prime Time. They get a nice +1 to wound buff for one turn once they deploy.

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Basically warrior brotherhood works exactly the same but is cheaper and very slightly less reliable. 

I thought it was the same cost, but a lot weaker as you just deploy at 9" away now and proceed to fail most of the charges.

It seems like Stormcast are going to be even more reliant on pew pew than before (since coming down 9" away with pew pew is less of a problem).

[Nico]

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So yeah you can pretty much tear out the pages with the max battalion bonuses.

This is completely normal - same story for Sylvaneth and (probably) for the Arcanites as well. These are plainly intended for big narrative games or mega-size events.

[Requizen]

Hammerstrike Force + Vexillor is a thing. Everything starts on the table, banner the Prosecutors 9" away, drop the Paladins on the doorstep. Min 740 for a pretty solid and reliable Alpha Strike. Potentially cheaper if you go Relictor + Lightning Chariot, but that has a min range (24" from starting position) and relies on the Prayer to go off.

So 3 ways to get the Prosecutors down and make it a solid Alpha Strike: Vexillor, Prayer, or Scions of the Storm. The first is the most reliable but also the most expensive, the other two are cheaper but less reliable.

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[chord]

18 hours ago, Lissë-Prime said:

In 1K game I would not include Celestant-Prime for the reason that it is point hungry.  

I used the Prime in a 1K 5 player triumph and treachery match.  By the time he came down my opponents had wiped their big units off the board.   Once he landed it was fun to watch them all scramble to move their units out of his path of destruction

[Nico]

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Hammerstrike Force + Vexillor is a thing. Everything starts on the table, banner the Prosecutors 9" away, drop the Paladins on the doorstep.

If you know who will be determining turn one, you can actually just have the Prosecutors run (if they have a reroll runs buffs then whether this buff is in range will be measured from their starting position by the way). So they can move 12+D6, then you can then drop the Paladin unit(s) from out of the Celestial Realm within 5" of them, which can be one model within 5" of the nearest Prosecutor, then you can conga the rest - gives a further trade-off/reason to take Protectors over Retributors - as the 3" range means that even with a bad charge roll, you should get most of them into combat (the Maces will be at the end of the conga line 3" from the enemy with the 3" range Protectors lagging behind them and linking up to the Prosecutors).

[wayniac]

I am now really considering taking a unit of Vanguard-Raptors with the heavy crossbows (the 6/9 attack one), keeping them in reserve, then dropping them behind enemy lines, preferably in cover, and shooting the ****** out of an enemy unit, while the rest of your force is moving forward and/or moving on the flanks (Hunters and Palladors?).  Put the enemy on two flanks, especially if you drop a tanky type unit behind the lines too with the Raptors to screen them.

[Nubgan]

Does anyone know whether the Warscroll cards have the formations in at all?

[Kytlock]

Hammerstrike Force + Vexillor is a thing. Everything starts on the table, banner the Prosecutors 9" away, drop the Paladins on the doorstep. Min 740 for a pretty solid and reliable Alpha Strike. Potentially cheaper if you go Relictor + Lightning Chariot, but that has a min range (24" from starting position) and relies on the Prayer to go off.

So 3 ways to get the Prosecutors down and make it a solid Alpha Strike: Vexillor, Prayer, or Scions of the Storm. The first is the most reliable but also the most expensive, the other two are cheaper but less reliable.

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I haven't actually played a game yet, but I really like this idea.


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