Sception Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 52 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: It's possible, but one thing that makes me think they will be new (at least Soulblight) is that they didn't put the Nighthaunt abilities in this book. If they were just reprinting them why not toss them in for completeness sake? We'll find out soon enough! If I had to guess why, it would be that Nighthaunt is still getting their own battle tome later this year, while Soulblight aren't. That's just guesswork and speculation, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Yes, but why include Soulblight at all (not to mention GA: Death) when the GHB exists? Just seems really odd to me if they are not even receiving a slight change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 LoN pretty much covers death generally, plus a lot of soulblight stuff anyway, so I can see why they'd bring along the grand alliance and soulblight allegiance rules. I mean, we'll see in a week, so... *shrug*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowseercB Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Has anyone heard of any FEC synergy in this book? I enjoy all the Vampire related parts of the lore so I am hopeful they will include some more love to the Flesh-Eater Courts. I feel as though they are currently weak in there current battletome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Entirely the opposite, actually. Necromancer's signature spell now targets 'summonable' units, and so can no longer be cast on any FEC stuff (or TK stuff, but at least they still have their liche priests). Access to the new lore of vampires is restricted to 'soublight' wizards, not 'vampire' wizards, so FEC don't get access to that, either. From what we can tell, nothing in FEC gets the summonable keyword, so they won't work with deathly invocation or the new gravesites, almost none of the previewed command abilities, traits, or artefacts work with FEC (exception being the new named vamp lord on dragon, he can let any other death hero fight in the hero phase), none of the formations use FEC. This book seems intent on driving a heavy wedge between 'generalist death' and FEC or TK, and given how much FEC in particular leaned on those synergies, they'll really be hurting for a new book sooner rather than later. Fingers crossed, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickybluetoffee Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Sorry, it works on Summonable units? Oh boy I may have to ally a Necromancer into my Nighthaunt army! See if I can get that, damned terrain, Knight of Shroud’s command ability and Lightshard of the Harvest Moon on a big unit of Spirit Hosts. Probably won’t happen but worth a shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Yes, necromancers lost synergy with tomb kings and flesh eaters, but gained it with night haunts - or with spirit hosts at least. I still think Nighthaunt is lacking in variety and options for larger games, but a smaller force of the new KoS, a necromancer, a couple units of spirit hosts, a mornghul or some hexwraiths, maybe a couple wraiths or a banshee, looks a lot more appealing to me than what they had access to a month ago. A halfway decent general (though sadly only a 5 wound infantry model, so not viable in big games) and a usable support caster, albeit allied, does a lot for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickybluetoffee Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Sadly Nighthaunt can’t take Deathmages as allies. I was super excited for a moment there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowseercB Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Yeah I was really hopeful that Mannfred would get some of the much hated (in lore) FEC usage since he doesnt care how he wins as long as he does and hes a pretty good manipulator. As hard as we play at my local store it looks like I maybe shelving them for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Shoot. Lack of legal allies is unfortunate there. Nor does it make a lot of sense in the fluff, imo. I mean, nighthaunt is mostly a malignant alliance, and deathmages have a malignant unit themselves. Plus there seems like obvious overlap between necromancers and summoned ghosts. So to take a necromancer in your nighthaunt army, you have to give up your allegiance abilities to take generic death or one of the legions (no big loss there, imo), and you also need to fit in regular death battle line options (minimal zombies being currently the cheapest). That's... doable I guess, but if you're taking necromancers and zombies, then you might as well take corpse carts too, and pretty soon it doesn't really feel like a nighthaunt army any more. Honestly, Nighthaunt units so far feel like they're only in this book because they aren't anywhere else. I strongly expect we'll see a separate battle tome for them sooner rather than later (this year, I think), and when that happens I expect they'll get a treatment similar to FEC. Rules fleshed out into something that can almost claim to be called its own faction, at the cost of most or all synergy with the rest of the death alliance being cut off. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if spirit hosts lose the 'summonable' keyword when their rules get redone. Honestly, I'm surprised we haven't seen more playing around with the summonable rules in this book. Stuff like, X legion gives Y unit the 'summonable' keyword. Based on the leaked scrolls, I had half expected nagash to make morghasts summonable, mannfred to make vargheists summonable, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeymajq Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, TheKingInYellow said: Grave Guard with Shields are a really nice Anvil in Legion of Night... I was just gonna say that after I read someone brushing that part of as not-so-good. You could potentially have 3+ saves on your GG before mystic shield or cover, as will your black knights (granted they might leave your territory rather fast). The wight king will stroll around with a 2+ save as well. ...I might go LoN with my deathrattle tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Eh, the better save you pile on something, the more your opponent will send their rendy stuff at it, so IMO great weapon grave guard are still better than shield guard even as LoN anvils. Crypt shields are just... they're really terrible, ime. Fine to have if you get them for free as skeletons or black knights do, but absolutely never worth trading other options for, as grave guard must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 22 minutes ago, stickybluetoffee said: Sadly Nighthaunt can’t take Deathmages as allies. I was super excited for a moment there... 1 minute ago, Sception said: Shoot. Lack of legal allies is unfortunate there. Why not just do the same combo in one of the new allegiances packages? You will lose the Lightshard but I'm guessing at least one of the new sets of artefacts will have something that gives a similar effect. Heck, you might even find something better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Sception said: Eh, the better save you pile on something, the more your opponent will send their rendy stuff at it, so IMO great weapon grave guard are still better than shield guard even as LoN anvils. Crypt shields are just... they're really terrible, ime. Fine to have if you get them for free as skeletons or black knights do, but absolutely never worth trading other options for, as grave guard must. 6 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said: I was just gonna say that after I read someone brushing that part of as not-so-good. You could potentially have 3+ saves on your GG before mystic shield or cover, as will your black knights (granted they might leave your territory rather fast). The wight king will stroll around with a 2+ save as well. ...I might go LoN with my deathrattle tbh. I have to agree with @Sception on here at least insofar as I prefer GG with Great Wight Blades. I don't like the idea of a GG anvil in general though as even with +1 to save they aren't defensively efficient. Skeleton Warriors with this bonus, on the other hand, are really good efficiency. One really interesting feature of this ability is that it discourages opponents who try to deepstrike their entire army into your zone like the popular Fyreslayer tunnel teams. Legion of Night's two abilities work really well in this regard -- if they go ahead and deepstrike against you, they are going to face even tougher opposition and still run the risk of having their own backfield swamped by your own deepstrike. Given that Legion of Night has very little setup cost to do this, you give yourself an advantage by forcing the opponent to play fair when they probably invested a great deal into making their deepstrike work (for example, the heroes and/or battalions whose main purpose is just to enable a deepstrike). It's a really clever design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeymajq Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Sception said: Eh, the better save you pile on something, the more your opponent will send their rendy stuff at it, so IMO great weapon grave guard are still better than shield guard even as LoN anvils. Crypt shields are just... they're really terrible, ime. Fine to have if you get them for free as skeletons or black knights do, but absolutely never worth trading other options for, as grave guard must. True. Better to dump a mystic shield or get them in cover instead. Still, it's a nice buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I am a bit surprised none of the legion has ghosts. It is fine for me as I play Deathrattle but still... a Nighthaunt army led by a Mortarch would have been cool. Right now it seems as though really every list need Skeletons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Just now, Aginor said: I am a bit surprised none of the legion has ghosts. It is fine for me as I play Deathrattle but still... a Nighthaunt army led by a Mortarch would have been cool. Right now it seems as though really every list need Skeletons. What makes you say that? I haven't seen anything that suggests none of the legions can take ghosts, and we haven't seen all of the abilities either so there could be some that specifically buff nighthaunt. I'd also argue that the Mortis Engine (which isn't Nighthaunt, I know, but thematically and aesthetically it fits) and Tomb Banshee both stand to benefit a lot from the increased bravery debuffs that we are likely to see with the new warscrolls. I'm not sure on the details, but I'm pretty sure I heard that some of the new banners debuff bravery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 3 hours ago, swarmofseals said: It's possible, but one thing that makes me think they will be new (at least Soulblight) is that they didn't put the Nighthaunt abilities in this book. If they were just reprinting them why not toss them in for completeness sake? We'll find out soon enough! Agreed... This, coupled with this rumour engine preview: https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Jan2-RumourEngine1yrcls.jpg Has me thinking that there might be a bit of nighthaunt love in the second half of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Also, does this particular line: "bring on a Death hero from a table edge within 9″ of a gravesite, then summon another unit you’ve kept in reserve from that!" explain more in depth how summoning works via gravesites? If you get a hero within 9" of a gravesite, you can summon a unit using said hero automatically? If so, it would be a pretty damn cool use of the gravesites in enemy territories... Guess we'll see the full story soon, as 1 hero could potentially snowball into several units arriving via Gravesites if you kept reserve points (and if it's automatic, it's all but guaranteed to drop several units off this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowseercB Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 What would the appropriate size of a gravesite be? I dont see any "Gravesite" on GW webpage. They may release something but I would have thought they would have "leaked" it out by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Just now, shadowseercB said: What would the appropriate size of a gravesite be? I dont see any "Gravesite" on GW webpage. They may release something but I would have thought they would have "leaked" it out by now. I'm not sure how official this is but from what I've heard they aren't supposed to be terrain, just a point on the battlefield like an objective. You could use terrain to represent it, but for game purposes it's just the point at the center of whatever marker you are using to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeymajq Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 They are tokens. It says so in the latest WD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 So it seems that the summoning works so, that you need to have a character within 9" of the gravesite you are using for summoning. So it's bit less flexible than what I thought before. Not so much summoning stuff behind enemy lines, but more of summoning stuff to support your hero. Well, it still sounds quite nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 If you still get the traditional 18" range to drop your summoned unit (away from the hero summoning it), it could work wonders... Especially with fast flying heroes like vampires or the deepstriking trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, swarmofseals said: What makes you say that? I haven't seen anything that suggests none of the legions can take ghosts, and we haven't seen all of the abilities either so there could be some that specifically buff nighthaunt. I'd also argue that the Mortis Engine (which isn't Nighthaunt, I know, but thematically and aesthetically it fits) and Tomb Banshee both stand to benefit a lot from the increased bravery debuffs that we are likely to see with the new warscrolls. I'm not sure on the details, but I'm pretty sure I heard that some of the new banners debuff bravery. What I meant is that the Legion bonus seems to only apply to Deathrattle units. But you are right: maybe Ghosts play a bigger role than it looks like to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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