Wanna Start Tomb Kings but how?!

[Graftonianman]

I think the KoW line is exactly why GW won’t do TK. If they do, it will be a very different thing. (And the KoW “ushabti” are nowhere as cool as the metal originals)

[Sception]

It's a sad situation to be sure.  I still think the best hope for tomb kings is new undead factions, and revisions to existing ones, incorporating tomb king inspired concepts and aesthetics in such a way that would allow old tomb kings to trade in their compendium for counts as.

Like, expand and the deathrattle line with skeletal chariots, archers/weird necromantic crossbows, skeleton giant, and maybe a terrestrial monster with a howda carrying grave guard or a wight king.  Recut the skeleton warrior sprues to make archers and warriors a dual kit, and use the opportunity to give them taller shields with a more tomb kingsy feel & death lords iconography, maybe more death lordsy commanc bits.  Maybe recut grave guard with similar shields and some alternate heads in such a style.  Maybe a skeletal wizard in the style of Arkhan the Black,

Then a more undead monster / necrotechnological experiment faction, with monstrous infantry style animated armor/fkesh golems (ushabri), the same but as centaur like creatures (necroknights), a big weird war maching dual kit as catapult/arcane nexus (ssc/casket), maybe arcanist and engineers as support heroes (liches & tects).  maybe a huge monster necrosphynx, or maybe just leave that as a counts as terrorgheist (executing strike -> gapimg maw, call the scream a petrifying gaze).

It could work, but given how GW is seemingly deathly allergic to actual new releases for the undead in AoS, i don't know.

 

In the mean time, I think fans could get some more mileage out of some homebrew TK rulex that dovetail with rather than replace the existing official rules.  The fan battlwtome that was making the rounds had rhe right idea, but I'd drop the actual unit entries and points costs, at least as ling as GW is putting those out themselves, and rethink a handful of allegiance rules in the vein of Legions of Nagash.  Like, a couple spell lores, overlaping allegiances based on thematics rather than segragated unit selection, like the different mortarch legions.

Like, LoN really does present the best template I've seen for updating old WHFB armies structurally, TK or otherwise.

As for the kow line, its not like there arent kow lines covering everything else.  Their undead line covers LoN a lot better than their egyptian line covers TK, what with no chariots, no sphynxes, etc.

[themortalgod]

True, though it could be worse, I feel for Elf players who have had to wait years for a glimmer of hope only to have elves end up being more medusa than elf.  (Not that the line isn't gorgeous, it is, but its more of a completely new race than it is elves. ;))

At the end of the day, it always comes down to business. If GW felt a TK line would sell well, they would have one out ASAP.  Thats probably also why Death has gotten few releases, it isn't selling well. Which is fair, They are a business after all. Though it will be interesting to see if things change with the new book out as it does really breath a lot of new life into death, so to speak.  

I love the fan battletome, it isn't perfect but its so lovingly and gorgeously done. Plus the fact that its author now is doing work for GW I have to assume he is whispering in ears for his beloved Tomb Kings.  Unfortunately, no one I know would ever be keen on using "fan-made" rules in games. 

 

[Kyriakin]

I dont see why the unofficial one would be any more accepted than just playing TK16.

In fact, TK16 might be pretty good against newer battletomes, with TK17 used against, say, Darkling Covens or FEC.

However, to be honest, rules are not the biggest issue here. Models are.

[themortalgod]

43 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

I dont see why the unofficial one would be any more accepted than just playing TK16.

In fact, TK16 might be pretty good against newer battletomes, with TK17 used against, say, Darkling Covens or FEC.

However, to be honest, rules are not the biggest issue here. Models are.

For me, rules are.  I have like 3000pts of TKs and I like the models.  They aren't perfect bt I still enjoy them. 

[Kyriakin]

3 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

For me, rules are.  I have like 3000pts of TKs and I like the models.  They aren't perfect bt I still enjoy them. 

I should have specified that model availability, not quality, is my issue.

If they Made to Order the range, I would probably spend 500 quid.

[themortalgod]

6 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

I should have specified that model availability, not quality, is my issue.

If they Made to Order the range, I would probably spend 500 quid.

haha, well ebay is your friend if you really want em hahah. Though Necro knights and Ushabti have hit the ridiculous levels but if you don't mind spending a few dollars.  

[Carnivore]

Well, I also have a local hobby store here, that has some of the original boxes still in stock. That are 2 boxes, one witht hat standart guys, adn the other one I don't know. They just cost the original price. Let me know, if you might wanna have those!

[Sception]

I don't think they'll do plastics made to order, but ushabti is possible.  I would certainly buy a few boxes.

[themortalgod]

21 minutes ago, Sception said:

I don't think they'll do plastics made to order, but ushabti is possible.  I would certainly buy a few boxes.

I'd be really surprised to see any TK made to order unless the plan is to bring back the faction.  I can't see GW opening that can of worms otherwise. 

[Sception]

I didnt say likely.  Just possible. 

[gdieckhaus]

8 hours ago, Carnivore said:

Well, I also have a local hobby store here, that has some of the original boxes still in stock. That are 2 boxes, one witht hat standart guys, adn the other one I don't know. They just cost the original price. Let me know, if you might wanna have those!

Im interested!

[Carnivore]

Alright, just pm me, and we could look how it could work

[Kyriakin]

I think the Adepticon rumours today are worrisome.

It is confirmed that old WHFB armies will now be given full warscrolls (i.e. including characters that were made into generic heroes in GHB2017, such as Lokhir Fellheart, etc.), but will be not usable for match play. This will be called "Warhammer Legends".

Vince Venturella, who was in attendance, said that TK were brought up, and it was hinted that they would be included in this.

This is potentially bad, as TK warscrolls were never folded into each other in the first place - so there is absolutely no upside to this gameplay wise - and the army would then lose its Matched Play status.

The only fillip would be a potential Made to Order run, as the out-of-production Dark Elves are getting at the moment. However, I am unaware of any previous Made to Orders on plastic kits.

[themortalgod]

1 hour ago, Kyriakin said:

I think the Adepticon rumours today are worrisome.

It is confirmed that old WHFB armies will now be given full warscrolls (i.e. including characters that were made into generic heroes in GHB2017, such as Lokhir Fellheart, etc.), but will be not usable for match play. This will be called "Warhammer Legends".

Vince Venturella, who was in attendance, said that TK were brought up, and it was hinted that they would be included in this.

This is potentially bad, as TK warscrolls were never folded into each other in the first place - so there is absolutely no upside to this gameplay wise - and the army would then lose its Matched Play status.

The only fillip would be a potential Made to Order run, as the out-of-production Dark Elves are getting at the moment. However, I am unaware of any previous Made to Orders on plastic kits.

I'd agree, at first I was like HELL YEAH! Then saw the big about them being "not intended for matched play" and wondered if this is just a final hurrah to finally put the compendium armies to rest. 

It all depends what they mean by "not intended for matched play". Does that mean they won't get any points values or does it mean points values will be provided but won't have a ton of effort invested in play testing/balancing?

If there are no pts values I'd say the army is effectively dead. (no pun intended  ) I don't understand why GW has invested so much in narrative play and continues to almost tout it as the primary way of playing the game. Does anyone actually play that way? It must be an extreme minority, I've never met anyone who plays narrative and most people I know didn't even give AoS a serious look as a game worth playing until GW added pts costs. TKs are narrative play only is a far worse situation than TK as they are now. 

That said, I'd be willing to bet this whole ordeal is actually a mechanism for GW to judge demand for each of these armies. Its a cheap way to figure out if people actually really want the armies or not that will bring in some revenue with very low risk. Its very clever. I suspect that armies who sell extremely well during their little made to order resurgence will be considered strongly to be brought into AoS proper with perhaps a re-imagining of their fluff/models.  For this reason, I will buy TK models, regardless.  

Though I would recommend everyone download a local copy of the current TK's PDF as I suspect it will go away from the site in favor of whatever the new rules are and if they don't have pts costs you won't have any options to play your TKs in matched play at all. 

 

[kenshin620]

8 hours ago, themortalgod said:

If there are no pts values I'd say the army is effectively dead. (no pun intended  ) I don't understand why GW has invested so much in narrative play and continues to almost tout it as the primary way of playing the game. Does anyone actually play that way? It must be an extreme minority, I've never met anyone who plays narrative and most people I know didn't even give AoS a serious look as a game worth playing until GW added pts costs. TKs are narrative play only is a far worse situation than TK as they are now.

GW and Competitive games (even in a casual sense) have always had this weird relationship. While its nothing new, it is quite prevalent in AoS sometimes to a somewhat absurd degree. I think one big example is the Pink Horror split rule, where I'm pretty sure almost no one in matched play ever uses unless theres some fringe build I do not know of.

Now I do understand where it stems from, the old days of yore where half the fun was having a good time with mates over beer and snacks. But I think its primarily an "older" gamer thing, given how I've seen many historical games lack point values. But this is warhammer, which for decades have used point systems and mechanics that support having random pick up games with strangers.

[themortalgod]

46 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

GW and Competitive games (even in a casual sense) have always had this weird relationship. While its nothing new, it is quite prevalent in AoS sometimes to a somewhat absurd degree. I think one big example is the Pink Horror split rule, where I'm pretty sure almost no one in matched play ever uses unless theres some fringe build I do not know of.

Now I do understand where it stems from, the old days of yore where half the fun was having a good time with mates over beer and snacks. But I think its primarily an "older" gamer thing, given how I've seen many historical games lack point values. But this is warhammer, which for decades have used point systems and mechanics that support having random pick up games with strangers.

What I don't understand is how they don't understand that there is a world of difference between wanting to have a balanced casual game and competitive tournament play. They must realize that the vast majority of their audience are guys like me who likely will never set foot anywhere near a tournament but still would never play a single game without points values.

Hopefully either the old armies have points values at launch (even if super lightly playtested) or GW quickly realizes their mistake and adds them in later. 

[Riluo]

Settra will return

[gdieckhaus]

I thought this may be of interest to you guys.  In this episode we talk Tomb Kings... Sigmar and Son Episode 3 - There were some significant changes to the Tomb King Desert Legions PDF with GHB2017, Vincent Venturella from warhammer weekly joins us to discuss the army in it's current form.