'Competitive' Ironjawz

[Luke.w]

The maw krusha is the general. 

[Blueisola]

5 hours ago, Luke.w said:

Hey everyone, I am looking to make a competitive list for 2.5k. Wondering how this looks:

Maw Krusha 520  with Rampager command Trait and Talisman of Protection.

Warchanter 80  with Gem Of Seeing

Weirdfist 100

Weirdnob 120 with gem of seeing

3x 10 Ardboys  540

Ironfist 60

2x 10 Brutes 720

2x 3 Gore Gruntas 360

2500

 

Which weapons should I take?

Any advice on changes?

I prefer running my Gruntas as a unit of 6.  they can really tank other units for numerous turns and if you can throw Bellowing Tyrant on them turn 1 and get them in on the 8"+ charge, the bonus to hit plus 6 mounts potentially dishing out the bonus D3 damage can deliver some serious hurt.

[Luke.w]

Thanks for the advice. I feel like the gem of seeing is a really powerful item for Ironjawz because battalion-heavy lists with less combat heroes and more supporting heroes will want to give those supporting heroes artefacts that are not so combat-focussed (battle brew) and can instead be used from range to boost up your combat units. The gem of seeing does this well because it gives your combat guys +1 to hit against crucial/ lynchpin units.

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey @Luke.w,

The Gem of Seeing doesn't work in that way. It just gives +1 to hit for the bearer against the selected unit. Unfortunately as it is, it's flat out worse than Battle Brew and an entirely unimaginative Artefact.

If you find yourself with spare Artefact slots, the Talisman of Protection is nice enough to give a bit of extra situational survivability to a Weirdnob Shaman or Warchanter.

If you want to do something a bit more out the box, try the Meteoric Hammerblade on a Warchanter. I had a short run with this in 2016 and tbh found the threat to be way worse than the reality. Kinda fun though! Just be mindful of your own models placing.

[Imperial]

Yesterday i played vs death mixed army to annihilation for 1500 points. Field was 2x2 tiles. After third turn i have 3 brute vs dragon and mortis.... I do not know, what i can change on my list and how can i win vs death, with considering what i have 2 times roll of 6 on waaagh and good rolls on attacks ...

My list:

Heroes
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (520)
- General
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Meteoric Hammerblade
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180) - Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360) -  Gore-hacka
- 2x Gore Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 1500/1500

 

Death list:

Heroes
Mannfred Mortarch Of Night (460)
Wight King with Black Axe (120)
Cairn Wraith (60)
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Vampiric Sword & Shield
- Trait: Ruler of the Night
- Artefact: Cursed Book

Battleline
10 x Zombies (60)
10 x Zombies (60)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
- Nighthaunt Battleline

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Total: 1500/1500

[KnightFire]

4 hours ago, Imperial said:

Yesterday i played vs death mixed army to annihilation for 1500 points. Field was 2x2 tiles. After third turn i have 3 brute vs dragon and mortis.... I do not know, what i can change on my list and how can i win vs death, with considering what i have 2 times roll of 6 on waaagh and good rolls on attacks ...

My list:

Heroes
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (520)
- General
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Meteoric Hammerblade
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180) - Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360) -  Gore-hacka
- 2x Gore Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 1500/1500

 

 

AT 1500 points I would definately get rid of the maw-crusha. It is over-costed, and at 2000 points you can just about absorb that, but at 1500 its over 1/3 of your army points, but isn't offering 1/3 of the army's power. I would also drop the gore-gruntas and replace them with a unit of ardboys. Get a megaboss on foot and two more units of 5 brutes instead of the maw crusha. That gives you a lot more damage output and more wounds on the field.

[Imperial]

2 hours ago, KnightFire said:

AT 1500 points I would definately get rid of the maw-crusha. It is over-costed, and at 2000 points you can just about absorb that, but at 1500 its over 1/3 of your army points, but isn't offering 1/3 of the army's power. I would also drop the gore-gruntas and replace them with a unit of ardboys. Get a megaboss on foot and two more units of 5 brutes instead of the maw crusha. That gives you a lot more damage output and more wounds on the field.

i will try replace gruntas with ardboys for next game. Before this i allready tried take 3 units of 5 brutes with choppas, but they cant kill mortarch or dragon w/o at least 1 warchanter for each unit. 

[Fungrim]

Anyone slightly concerned we're about to lose Battle Brew and Rampaging Destroyers?

[Payce]

2 hours ago, Fungrim said:

Anyone slightly concerned we're about to lose Battle Brew and Rampaging Destroyers?

Not until I see the replacements, and unless they specifically change the option to go baseline allegiance instead of faction allegiance like now, we'll still have the option to. If anything, I'm more concerned about losing ToP, but I also think at this point GW has enough community feedback to have a fair idea of the state Ironjawz are in, and what we need to adress it.

 

- bravery is our main issue, and I think no one at the dev team thinks Inspiring Presence being the mandatory command ability is a good thing. I expect an item (or several) that will give us a chance to change this, possibly something along the lines of Crown of Command, or a bravery bubble that gives units within 9", 10" a +2 bonus.
- Green Puke, Foot of Gork and Weirdfist are all awesome ideas, but at the current stage of the meta, the Shaman is exclusively an overcosted Mystic Shield. They'll want to sell those skirmish boxes, so expect the Shaman to dip a bit in points, possibly the Weirdfist as well. Optionally, I could see an arcane item that allows him to cast two spells instead of one, keeping him at the current points cost. Either solution opens up a mountain of tactical options for the Shaman.
- we're already fast, and we need to remain fast. Don't be surprised if the Ironfist gets a points increase, and we get access to command traits or items that compensate for that, and the loss of Rampaging Destroyers. Designwise, they'll want us to go Ironjawz allegiance after the complete failures of BCR and Splittaz allegiances to even remotely dent baseline destruction, and I fully expect that to change.
- In fact, I kinda expect baseline destruction to receive an overall nerf to make BCR and Splittaz more of a viable option, but that's a whole other story.

 

There's a tonne of things they can (and should) do with this to make a whole host of existing armies viable again. Until I see the changes, I'm not going to worry too much.

[Fungrim]

@Payce - great analysis! All very good points, let's hope they've put the effort into each faction as you've predicted.

I was kinda concerned they'll have reviewed the Destruction allegiance traits/artefacts in light of BCR and Splittaz rather than with respect to Ironjawz. Obviously the likes of BB, ToP and RD are super popular in this sub-forum, but from glimpses into other sub-forums a few folk think it's rather broken. Which I could understand re. BCR/Splittaz etc, or if they've had a few bad personal games against Ironjawz, but obviously only Ironjawz players know that even the Destruction allegiance stuff doesn't even being to make us 'competitive' in the true sense of the word. 

It'd be a shame to see anything in Ironjawz go up in points, even Ironfist, but I guess they'll have approached it from a completely neutral point of view. Definitely hoping for a reduction in Shaman, Gruntas and Cabbage - but wouldn't be surprised if Shaman didn't change as, if you can buff it properly, Foot of Gork is hella dangerous.

[Solaris]

I think the issue they were facing with the first GH was that not enough factions had their own battletomes yet, so they had to make generic grand alliance abilities stand out. To some extent, I don't think this is the case anymore, and I expect them to put an effort into promoting mono-faction play through stronger allegiance abilities. It's very possible that they remove rampaging destroyers from generic destruction and give it to Ironjawz allegiance, for example.

[Fungrim]

1 hour ago, Solaris said:

It's very possible that they remove rampaging destroyers from generic destruction and give it to Ironjawz allegiance, for example.

This would be good..

[Nico]

Quote

Green Puke, Foot of Gork and Weirdfist are all awesome ideas, but at the current stage of the meta, the Shaman is exclusively an overcosted Mystic Shield.

You mean an undercosted, reliable Mystic Shield . The other spells are for narrative games or Hail Mary passes.

I agree that they might keep Rampaging Destroyers and add traits and artefacts specific to Ironjawz. Similarly Nighthaunt might keep the ward save and have added traits and artefacts. 

 

[Fungrim]

5 minutes ago, Nico said:

undercosted, reliable Mystic Shield 

[Solaris]

30 minutes ago, Nico said:

You mean an undercosted, reliable Mystic Shield . The other spells are for narrative games or Hail Mary passes.

I agree that they might keep Rampaging Destroyers and add traits and artefacts specific to Ironjawz. Similarly Nighthaunt might keep the ward save and have added traits and artefacts. 

 

I quite like Green Puke in a Weirdfist, and especially from atop a Balewind  I don't think this is ever going to be a very competitive build though. Foot of Gork is 100% a Hail Mary.

[Nico]

I've seen an Exalted Deathbringer impale Kairos 12 times in a row with his spear once, so having the Hail Mary in the back pocket is no bad thing.

[Fungrim]

When a Grot Shaman is 80 points, Exalted Deathbringer is 80 pts, Lord Castellant is 100, I think it's fair to say a Weirdnob is a little over-pointed

[Sangfroid]

Expect changes to Destruction massively the generic D6" move is very strong compared to others, (particularly chaos and order) battlebrew is broken because it effects mounts and ToP probably should be a 5+ 

There doom and gloom over, the good news is with new ironjawz stuff almost a given excitement levels are at maximum also with a drop in the generic Destruction power there is an incentive for more pure splittas and BCR armies (who's own stuff isn't actually too bad just not battlebrew/Bellowing tyrant levels of broken) @Kanamorf does a great job of flying pure splittas flag (my hero). I also will be glad to see battlebrewed up stonhorns a thing of the past. 

 

With probable changes to points and or shooting (has anyone played the new 40k the rules for shooting and smite (arcane bolt) are amazing...just saying) archer spam may not be so great and suddenly we have 3 armies that are thrown into disarray for us to discuss and find the combos... also could there be spiderfang allegiances or moon clan Grot ones or Greenskinz or grots too? The article mentions a couple but suggests a lot more........ 

destruction faction as a whole is actually very well placed to benefit from this because of the very well fleshed out factions (on the whole) whereas order, chaos and death have a few sub factions that are essentially pointless (thunderscorn or shadow blades etc...) 

the loss of the crutch will hurt initially but will I hope end up being a good thing and for Ironjawz if shooting is nerfed even just a tiny bit we as a faction benefit practically 100% because there is only one shooting attack and that's short ranged anyway so the nerf bat swings wide and above our heads :-)

[Fungrim]

An Ironjawz player on 4 majors and well in with a shout for taking out Heat 3!

List looks like (could be wrong):

Cabbage

Megaboss

Chanter

Shaman

20 Ardboys

5 Brutes

5 Brutes

6 Gruntas

Ironfist

 

Currently on Twitch!

[N_Watson]

Yes only 5 brutes and 20 ardboys + 10 ardboys then 6 gruntas. 

[Fungrim]

A lot of Ardboys! Very interesting. 5 Brutes sounds so little though ?

[xanderhansen]

The shield that ardboys can take, can you save mortal wounds with that?

Sendt fra min SM-G935F med Tapatalk

[Imperial]

34 minutes ago, xanderhansen said:

The shield that ardboys can take, can you save mortal wounds with that?

Sendt fra min SM-G935F med Tapatalk
 

No. Only normal wounds.

[Fungrim]

1 hour ago, Deowag said:

I was the ironjawz player who was on table 1 vs the squigs in the last game of the weekend =)

My list was

Allegiance: Destruction
Heroes
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (520)
- General
- Command Trait : Ravager
- Artefact : Talisman of Protection
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact : Battle Brew
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Units
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
- 10 x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 10 x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 10 x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1 x Gore Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (360)
Battalions
Ironfist (60)
Total: 2000/ 2000
Heroes: 4/6 Battlelines: 4 (3+) Behemoths: 1/4 Artillery: 0/4

Sadly I lost in the final which bumped me down to 10th but it felt amazing getting to the top table with ironjawz =) I can't wait for the finals in October!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 

 

[Fungrim]

Congrats for your finish @Deowag - you did amazingly well, especially considering the tough competition.

Really interesting list, lots(!) of Ardboys, with shields too.. you obviously find those 6+s are worth it? 6 Gruntas looked to serve you well. And clearly you didn't miss en masse Brutes?