Kramer Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 23 hours ago, TheNotebookGM said: I need help team. My main AoS friend plays Skryre and I've been able to win exactly one of our last 7 games. We've both gotten new minis for Christmas and we played 3 games yesterday and he trounced me. With the Warpstones letting him drop 12 mortal wounds on the board he just wipes swordmasters and reavers so fast, does anyone have advice on beating them? We've been playing at 1500, I'm still tweaking my list but I'll provide the lists for the game I got the closest to having a chance. We've just been rolling for command traits and artifacts. I know my list was 1520, we just played it anyway because he'd already wiped the floor with me twice. Him: Skryre Allegiance Arch-Warlock 2 x Warlock Engineer 1 x Skaven Warlord (ally) 2 x 3 Stormfiends - battleline - 1 Grinder, 2 Warpfire - 2 Doomflayer, 1 Warpfire 4 x 1 Poison Wind Mortar Team 1 x 40 Clanrats (ally) - Spear and Clanshields Me: High Warden Archmage 2 Tenebrael Shards Runesmiter 5 Reavers 20 Vulkite Bezerkers 20 Swordmasters He tends to just put all the mortars down, heroes right next to them, wrap them in Clanrats and then force me to either assault the death star or face a possible 12 wounds every turn . And as a bonus, stormfiends. The closest I've gotten was just charging everything in 1st turn and hoping I could kill him quickly enough but he won the race. Anyone have tips? Ideas for models to get me to 2k? I really like the shards but I feel like I'm better off dropping them and using my Runeson on Magmadroth to run up and use his bubble to help my vulkites with that first charge. Also, Skywardens for hero hunting. TL;DR I keep getting my ass kicked by techrats, help! You need some sniping! Or indeed a hefty first turn charge, or good resilience. 4x Mortor teams won't kill that much in an entire game. Don't let him pressure you to come to him that much. Most scenario's play for objectives. So he can't keep his 'death star' core always together. You grab a objective left and right, he needs to push forward. Don't let him drag you into a kill game if you didn't build a list for that. But I get the feeling, my mate plays my Skaven against me and he tends go for Skryre as well. Also if he has the same luck as I have his 4 wind mortars will have killed themselves before the end of the game , just like mine always do. I agree with @heywoah_twitch that Vanguard -raptors with longstrike crossbows are an easy fix, great looking models, fun rules and only 180 points for 3. There are of course a lot of options. What do you have lying around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNotebookGM Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Kramer said: Also if he has the same luck as I have his 4 wind mortars will have killed themselves before the end of the game , just like mine always do. In 7 games he's blown himself up twice, and once we had to retcon because we'd messed up the rules, haha. I went and picked up 6 skywardens yesterday and kitted them out with the fancy drills and volleys to help with the heroes and mortars. I'll go get more vulkites and a third set in the near future. I'm under a lot of grey right now. Thanks for the help everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 32 minutes ago, TheNotebookGM said: In 7 games he's blown himself up twice, and once we had to retcon because we'd messed up the rules, haha. Get me his dice! I only field two and I never have them by turn six. Rarely because of my opponent. Don't know if I would go for more Vulkites though. I personally would play the 6 sky wardens first to see if you miss anything else instead of more bodies. Not to mention the painting backlog A big personal favourite of mine in the order alliance are the executioners, although they fulfil the roll as the swordmasters. But the 6+ to hit = 2 mortal wounds is just awesome. Sword masters make a near perfect proxy though if your opponent is okay with that. Gives your army a bit more 'oomph' in the combat phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNotebookGM Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, Kramer said: A big personal favourite of mine in the order alliance are the executioners, although they fulfil the roll as the swordmasters. But the 6+ to hit = 2 mortal wounds is just awesome. Sword masters make a near perfect proxy though if your opponent is okay with that. Gives your army a bit more 'oomph' in the combat phase. I considered that but I actually like the Swordmasters because of their toughness in the shooting phase. If the Execs were cheaper maybe. Maybe I'll proxy them and see how I feel:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 47 minutes ago, TheNotebookGM said: I considered that but I actually like the Swordmasters because of their toughness in the shooting phase. If the Execs were cheaper maybe. Maybe I'll proxy them and see how I feel:) That's of course the other side of the coin. And also heavily influenced by your local opponents. I'll do the same soon. Let's see how that works out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 5 hours ago, Kramer said: Get me his dice! I only field two and I never have them by turn six. Rarely because of my opponent. Don't know if I would go for more Vulkites though. I personally would play the 6 sky wardens first to see if you miss anything else instead of more bodies. Not to mention the painting backlog A big personal favourite of mine in the order alliance are the executioners, although they fulfil the roll as the swordmasters. But the 6+ to hit = 2 mortal wounds is just awesome. Sword masters make a near perfect proxy though if your opponent is okay with that. Gives your army a bit more 'oomph' in the combat phase. If you are taking vulkites and not running them in a unit of 30, you are being extremely sub optimal. The discount plus the benefit is really too big to ignore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNotebookGM Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 35 minutes ago, stratigo said: If you are taking vulkites and not running them in a unit of 30, you are being extremely sub optimal. The discount plus the benefit is really too big to ignore 30 is the plan I just only HAVE 20 right now. I'm under too much grey to buy more right now though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 10 hours ago, stratigo said: you are being extremely sub optimal. The discount plus the benefit is really too big to ignore I always found this line of thinking really fascinating. 1. The description @TheNotebookGM gave was of him playing a mate regularly and wanting to level the playing field. So who cares about being optimal If you want that, then buy the winning list after every big tournament and then realise that skill is also a big factor. But that just might be me being a bit allergic to terms like optimal and other 'tournament' talk. 2. The other thing is the discounts being a must. Because yes, you get cheaper models per point but it also leads to a bigger footprint, the bonus for having a lot might not be that good anyway. For example I finally expanded a unit of Daemonettes up to 30. While the extra bodies are cheaper, I often don't get them all in combat anyway. More importantly, when playing two regular opponents, Ogors&Skaven, they only bring limited amount of shooting and the Daemonettes rarely are the focus. Right now I reckon I would rather bring 10 more for two units of 20 than the unit of 30. Regardless of the battleline requirements. More extreme example is the 40 pts discount you get on 12 ogors. The unit just becomes to massive and unwieldy in an objective game. Also, regardless if it's cheaper per model. It's still points. So while there are moments it's a good choice, always going for the discount is just not always the 'optimal' choice. At least that's my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arael Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Hi all! this is a list I was toying around for mixed order: Allegiance: Order Leaders Celestant-Prime (340) Battlesmith (80) Auric Runesmiter (80) - Runic Iron Battlemage (100) Luminark Of Hysh With White Battlemage (240) Archmage (120) Units 30 x Vulkite Berzerkers (330) -War-Picks & Slingshields 30 x Vulkite Berzerkers (330) -Pairs of Handaxes 10 x Glade Guard (120) 10 x Chameleon Skinks (240) Reinforcement Points (0) Total: 1980 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 6/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 1/4 Artillery: 0/4 This list have 3 possible deployment tricks ( vulkite tunneling, celestant prime and chameleons skinks) the last 2 can easily snipe character the turn they arrive. The vulkite used as tank or objective grabvers units could have 4+ save ( their special rule) and 3x6+ save (luminark, arch mage and life Battlemage ) and obviously their armor save maybe boosted by a Shield spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 7 hours ago, Kramer said: I always found this line of thinking really fascinating. 1. The description @TheNotebookGM gave was of him playing a mate regularly and wanting to level the playing field. So who cares about being optimal If you want that, then buy the winning list after every big tournament and then realise that skill is also a big factor. But that just might be me being a bit allergic to terms like optimal and other 'tournament' talk. 2. The other thing is the discounts being a must. Because yes, you get cheaper models per point but it also leads to a bigger footprint, the bonus for having a lot might not be that good anyway. For example I finally expanded a unit of Daemonettes up to 30. While the extra bodies are cheaper, I often don't get them all in combat anyway. More importantly, when playing two regular opponents, Ogors&Skaven, they only bring limited amount of shooting and the Daemonettes rarely are the focus. Right now I reckon I would rather bring 10 more for two units of 20 than the unit of 30. Regardless of the battleline requirements. More extreme example is the 40 pts discount you get on 12 ogors. The unit just becomes to massive and unwieldy in an objective game. Also, regardless if it's cheaper per model. It's still points. So while there are moments it's a good choice, always going for the discount is just not always the 'optimal' choice. At least that's my two cents. His mate is playing a fairly mean army though, so if he wants to win, he has to have a more efficient list. Or ask his mate to make a worse one. Or somehow become a much better player than his mate. Vulkites get a good discount, but they preserve their 4 up save after save for much longer (11 dead over 1), and he's facing a shooting heavy army with a very very strong drop in element, so he wants every single save he can get. Vulkites are one of the most durable units in the game at 30 models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 On 28-12-2017 at 9:29 PM, Kramer said: Get me his dice! I only field two and I never have them by turn six. Rarely because of my opponent. Don't know if I would go for more Vulkites though. I personally would play the 6 sky wardens first to see if you miss anything else instead of more bodies. Not to mention the painting backlog A big personal favourite of mine in the order alliance are the executioners, although they fulfil the roll as the swordmasters. But the 6+ to hit = 2 mortal wounds is just awesome. Sword masters make a near perfect proxy though if your opponent is okay with that. Gives your army a bit more 'oomph' in the combat phase. My preference as proxy are they wild wood rangers cloaks and they also carry draighs (not to mention I've got a wood elf based army anyway :D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 9 hours ago, Aezeal said: My preference as proxy are they wild wood rangers cloaks and they also carry draighs (not to mention I've got a wood elf based army anyway :D) Haha those work Too! (And to be fair I spend a lot better money on eBay just to get the old executioners. They look so much better in my opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Kramer said: Haha those work Too! (And to be fair I spend a lot better money on eBay just to get the old executioners. They look so much better in my opinion) No hooded cloaks.. so they auto-loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 17 minutes ago, Aezeal said: No hooded cloaks.. so they auto-loose. Haha well then we can at least agree that the new executioners are at the bottom at the list, no hooded cloacks and wierd skulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNotebookGM Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 6 Skywardens really made a difference versus those Skryre. Finally got a win in on Knife to the Heart. Kept my Skywardens mostly out of their range or on terrain and my 20 Vulkites lasted for ages. He deployed like he was expecting the shards to pop up right in his face so his bubble wrap was way too tight and didn't serve to zone out the Vulks at all and since they're sticky his heroes were kind of caught up in them even though they weren't getting attacked. Excuse the low-fi setup. My updated list: (Since we play against one another alot we always roll for command traits and artifacts) Order Allegiance Runeson on Magmadroth (General) - Master of Defense High Warden - Obstinate Blade (Starsteel Blade) Auric Runesmiter (Runic Iron) 2x5 Reavers (Battleline) 1x20 Vulkite Bezerkers (Picks and Shields) (Battleline) 1x10 Swordmasters 2x3 Skywardens (Drill Cannon and Volley Gun) PS: The tin caps of champagne bottles make excellent objective markers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNotebookGM Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Which would you run? I can't with the Mathhammering and I've had successes and failures with both. Points are the same. 1 Grimwrath Beserker and 5 Hearthguard Bezerkers 10 Swordmasters I've been switching off. I like the Fyreslayers because it lets me switch around who rides with my Runesmiter but the Swordmasters have done work for me and move a little faster, helps with objectives (plus my Skryre friend fears them and always wastes time on them whilst my Skywardens kill stuff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderingrogue Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 heres mine: Allegiance: Order - Tempest eye. Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - Hammer and shield Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - Hammer and shield Loremaster (100) Aether-Khemist (140) 10 x Freeguild Archers (100) 10 x Freeguild Archers (100) 10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3x Light Skyhooks 9 x Endrinriggers 3 grapnel (360) 9 x Endrin Wardens 3 drill 3 cannon (300) Gyrocopter (80) Helstorm Rocket Battery (180) Total: 2000/ 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myzyrael Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 One thing that strikes me more often than not is if there are any battallions viable for a mixed army. Most of I‘ve checked so far require too many Units of one faction. do you have any suggestions for small, thematic battallions to mix into a list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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