Ironskull's Boyz

[PlasticCraic]

Ladies and gentlemen, the warscroll is available to download from the GW Australia website!

My previous thoughts were that based on the first two warbands, they were likely to be enhanced Ardboyz, costing 120 points. But I'd rather they were a bit less enhanced and priced correspondingly, to give a cheaper list  building option. 

Well that's exactly what we've got... they are essentially basic Ardboyz, who all get their double handful of weapons AND the 6++ save. The leader also has a thematic headbutt that will rarely do anything, and his save is a 5++. 80 points for the unit. 

I'm interested in using these guys as a few relatively cheap bodies to leave back on an objective, freeing up the likes of a Warchanter who might otherwise have filled that role to get up in buffing range. 

The downsides are that they can't be in an Iron fist (so you have more drops, and they are painfully slow), no musician and no banner. 

Overall an interesting option, and possibly the confirmation that the 6+ ignore does apply to mortal wounds points to a future beneficial FAQ for Ardboyz. 

What are everyone's thoughts?

[Malakree]

One intresting note is that the dead ard ability says "allocating a wound or mortal wound" which seems to clear up the ardboyz Orruk Forged shields debate.

It also implies there is an faq and warscroll updated coming for ardboyz.

[PlasticCraic]

My first draft Ironskullz army (they're not actually on Warscroll Builder yet, hence the 80 point gap).

I think the main downside is the lack of bodies, as well as the number of drops (6).

The upsides are the very high mobility, 8 Ironjawz units for the Mighty Waaagh, 3x solid combat threats, access to Mystic Shield for the Maw Krusha, one Chanter each for the Brutes and MBMK. Also there are 3 heroes (incl the general) so you'd have a solid chance of popping a 6" on the Brutes in the first couple of turns. 

Whaddya reckon? Just too few bodies to be effective?

[Xelotath]

2 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

My first draft Ironskullz army (they're not actually on Warscroll Builder yet, hence the 80 point gap).

I think the main downside is the lack of bodies, as well as the number of drops (6).

The upsides are the very high mobility, 8 Ironjawz units for the Mighty Waaagh, 3x solid combat threats, access to Mystic Shield for the Maw Krusha, one Chanter each for the Brutes and MBMK. Also there are 3 heroes (incl the general) so you'd have a solid chance of popping a 6" on the Brutes in the first couple of turns. 

Whaddya reckon? Just too few bodies to be effective?

Personally I would drop the ironfist and add another unit of Gore Gruntas and round them into two units of six. It's more drops and you lose the Boss Skewer but you have enough speed in that list to make the Ironfist less of a must. Personally I don't think the Ironskulls really add anything to this list, all they're ever gonna do is sit on a backfield objective, which I get is kinda the point. I would maybe add a shaman in there for the extra spell capability.   

 

Thats my two cents ?

[PlasticCraic]

36 minutes ago, Xelotath said:

Personally I would drop the ironfist and add another unit of Gore Gruntas and round them into two units of six. It's more drops and you lose the Boss Skewer but you have enough speed in that list to make the Ironfist less of a must. Personally I don't think the Ironskulls really add anything to this list, all they're ever gonna do is sit on a backfield objective, which I get is kinda the point. I would maybe add a shaman in there for the extra spell capability.   

 

Thats my two cents ?

You definitely make some good points :-)

[Malakree]

So after consideration I feel like they are an amazing filler unit which doesn't take allies slots.

So noticeably the list I would like to take is

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner 
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1910 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

However those 90 points atm are really hard to fill. You end up with either a second grot shaman which is a bit fragile on the magic front or 10 orruks that don't quite fill the point holding role properly.

In this list the shadespire unit really nicely fills that as a good defensive holding unit which while not numerous should at least threaten small incursions. 

[Xelotath]

@Malakree this kind of list is the perfect place to drop in the Ironskulls. I haven't played many GHB scenarios though so my question is wouldn't it be a little dangerous to leave a four man unit on a backfield objective, especially in scenarios where your opponent could win by holding their objective and dropping something behind your lines, clearing those 8 wounds and grabbing the objective?

also slightly off topic how do you find the Waaagh Banner boss? I've been thinking about dropping him in but 140pts seems a bit steep

[ledha]

3 minutes ago, Xelotath said:

@Malakree this kind of list is the perfect place to drop in the Ironskulls. I haven't played many GHB scenarios though so my question is wouldn't it be a little dangerous to leave a four man unit on a backfield objective, especially in scenarios where your opponent could win by holding their objective and dropping something behind your lines, clearing those 8 wounds and grabbing the objective?

also slightly off topic how do you find the Waaagh Banner boss? I've been thinking about dropping him in but 140pts seems a bit steep

i may be wrong, but don't you need units of at least 5 to hold an objective in some scenarios ?

[Xelotath]

2 minutes ago, ledha said:

i may be wrong, but don't you need units of at least 5 to hold an objective in some scenarios ?

You might be right there, I think you need 5 to claim it or failing that the most models in range? I don't have the book to hand ?

[Malakree]

2 minutes ago, Xelotath said:

You might be right there, I think you need 5 to claim it or failing that the most models in range? I don't have the book to hand ?

I thought it was 20 or the most models? Anyway yes that is a legitimate concern and its more situational, there's a reason I said "small incursions" as to the banner I haven't managed to use one yet. I just found that in my list building I regularly had 90 ish points to burn and they fill the slot. 

[Anaticula]

Quick comment. I think that the Ironskull's Boyz are a missed oppurtunity (again) to give us something cool and special. What if they had been a vanguard unit like the Hunter from BCR? Idk it just makes me sad to look at the Warscroll.

[PlasticCraic]

1 hour ago, Xelotath said:

@Malakree this kind of list is the perfect place to drop in the Ironskulls. I haven't played many GHB scenarios though so my question is wouldn't it be a little dangerous to leave a four man unit on a backfield objective, especially in scenarios where your opponent could win by holding their objective and dropping something behind your lines, clearing those 8 wounds and grabbing the objective?

Yes I would certainly not recommend leaving them holding the fort in Knife to the Heart!

Their use will be something like Scorched Earth, where in mid game onwards they can stop 5 Libs just deep striking straight onto your objective, forcing them to crack off a long charge instead.  Or they'd hold their own against something like Spite Revenants walking on the edge. 

"Small incursions" is key thing - they're not gonna stand up to a concentration of overwhelming force, but they can stop your opponent getting something for nothing. 

There are quite a few of the battleplans where you end up leaving something back on its own to babysit an objective and keep scoring it, especially if it's not tag and move. Basically at 80 points, they're better at doing that than the Warchanter. 

[PlasticCraic]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

I thought it was 20 or the most models? 

Yeah there are a couple where it's 20 or the most. 

The one I think people are thinking of is Knife to the Heart (also known as the new Take and Hold).

In which you need 5+ models to 0 on both objectives. The unit size of 4 hardly matters here, because in practice you're playing for kill points rather than the scenario most times.

Or more likely not playing this mission at all...

[tolstedt]

1 hour ago, Anaticula said:

Quick comment. I think that the Ironskull's Boyz are a missed oppurtunity (again) to give us something cool and special. What if they had been a vanguard unit like the Hunter from BCR? Idk it just makes me sad to look at the Warscroll.

I agree.  It's just half an ardboy unit.  

Nice to fill out extra needed points without takin 180 chunk for bodies, but is more of the same rules-wise.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, tolstedt said:

I agree.  It's just half an ardboy unit.  

Nice to fill out extra needed points without takin 180 chunk for bodies, but is more of the same rules-wise.

So at 80 points they work out 2 points more expensive per model but as a unit are stronger, they get the benefits of all weapon options at the same time and an extra attack. They also give us a low points unit option which is something ironjawz desperately need.

These are the same cost as 5 Squig hoppers for example but are easily better.

While they aren't unique rules wise they fill a unique role in terms of list building.

[Xelotath]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

So at 80 points they work out 2 points more expensive per model but as a unit are stronger, they get the benefits of all weapon options at the same time and an extra attack. They also give us a low points unit option which is something ironjawz desperately need.

These are the same cost as 5 Squig hoppers for example but are easily better.

While they aren't unique rules wise they fill a unique role in terms of list building.

I agree, in terms of incorporating them into a list I find they are handy for say, dropping a unit of Ardboyz to grab that second warchanter. That's where I usually end up with them. This is where I've ended up so far. Obviously spare points account for the Ironskullz 

[tolstedt]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

While they aren't unique rules wise they fill a unique role in terms of list building.

Yes, precisely what I wrote.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, tolstedt said:

Yes, precisely what I wrote.

Sorry I was responding to the quote in your post more than your post. You just more succinctly stated the quote 

[BunkhouseBuster]

On 10/28/2017 at 12:28 AM, Malakree said:

One intresting note is that the dead ard ability says "allocating a wound or mortal wound" which seems to clear up the ardboyz Orruk Forged shields debate.

It also implies there is an faq and warscroll updated coming for ardboyz.

I saw this as well!  When every other unit gets an extra save against Mortal Wounds or all Damage, and the Ardboys don't, what's up with that?  I've been a proponent of the Ardboys getting that extra save against everything that gets through, and this, to me, is evidence that that is the case.

The Ironskull's Boys are just about enough to get me into Shadespire, though I don't see myself using them in regular AoS outside of smaller games, like 750 points or smaller.  While neat and kind of tanky, I'm not sure that they are more useful than a Warchanter in the army, but that's just me.  I've barely played with GH2017 at all, and have been spending my hobby time painting lately.