Optimising Ironjawz Allies

[Malakree]

@Aelfric

https://www.ageofhobby.com/shop/20mm-movement-tray

If the unit is fighting with spears, so has the 2" range, then those work fine for piling in. They also work fine if you don't actually want the unit in combat because you just dont pile in.

https://www.ageofhobby.com/shop/25mm-straight-movement-trays

Those are similar but have the 1" coherency, they are what I'm getting for my grots. They aren't quite as tightly packed but it doesn't really matter. You can have them alternating and offset to get a front row of 10 really easily. 

Seriously any large units use movement trays. They are especially amazing for bows.

[RuneBrush]

14 hours ago, Malakree said:

https://www.ageofhobby.com/shop/25mm-straight-movement-trays

Those are similar but have the 1" coherency, they are what I'm getting for my grots. They aren't quite as tightly packed but it doesn't really matter. You can have them alternating and offset to get a front row of 10 really easily. 

Seriously any large units use movement trays. They are especially amazing for bows.

Just to chuck this one in, the "stick" trays are a pain in the bum from a logistics point of view.  I've yet to see somebody manage to move these around a board without smacking scenery or other models!

[Cvaldor]

On the topic of allies I wanted to touch briefly on rock lobbers.  Just to recap a quick batrep I posted in another thread.  I used 2 rock lobbers at a recent event without much luck.  Them hitting on 2's against  horde units is great but I don't feel like I get my 200 points worth out of them.  Maybe in a battery of 4 you get their worth but I feel like spear  chukkas sniping heroes might be more effective if you can get through the rolls and the saves.

[Dez]

I just had a game with 2 Rock lobbaz as well, and for 100 points each they were exactly what I needed in an IJ army: A way to reliably reach out and kill stuff. First turn I nuked the crew off of a Hellstorm Rocket Battery and weakened his General on horse. They were key in other areas of the game, like killing that general and enough Handgunners so that they were no longer fully optimized. They killed enough Greatswords to leave my Mawkrusha alive and able to remove a General on Griffon and weaken the Hellstorm enough so I could finish it off in melee. I thought they were great, I'm building a third.

[Aelfric]

17 hours ago, Malakree said:

@Aelfric

https://www.ageofhobby.com/shop/20mm-movement-tray

If the unit is fighting with spears, so has the 2" range, then those work fine for piling in. They also work fine if you don't actually want the unit in combat because you just dont pile in.

https://www.ageofhobby.com/shop/25mm-straight-movement-trays

Those are similar but have the 1" coherency, they are what I'm getting for my grots. They aren't quite as tightly packed but it doesn't really matter. You can have them alternating and offset to get a front row of 10 really easily. 

Seriously any large units use movement trays. They are especially amazing for bows.

The first lot of trays looks interesting.  not sure about the single row ones. As @RuneBrush said, they do look awkward.  As my grots have bows, I won't be aiming to move them a great deal, so the condensed trays might be the way to go. But I may see how easy it is to make my own as I have mdf, a drill and a jigsaw.  After all, I'll need 12 of them For 60 grots  (and if they work, maybe more!).

[Cvaldor]

1 hour ago, Dez said:

I just had a game with 2 Rock lobbaz as well, and for 100 points each they were exactly what I needed in an IJ army: A way to reliably reach out and kill stuff. First turn I nuked the crew off of a Hellstorm Rocket Battery and weakened his General on horse. They were key in other areas of the game, like killing that general and enough Handgunners so that they were no longer fully optimized. They killed enough Greatswords to leave my Mawkrusha alive and able to remove a General on Griffon and weaken the Hellstorm enough so I could finish it off in melee. I thought they were great, I'm building a third.

Hmm... maybe I just had a bad day with them.  Going to see how I like running 30 arrowboyz screened by 30 ardboys.  

Anyone had any luck running 30 arrowboyz?  I've seen some lists with 20 and tempted to go that route but liking the bonus of 20+.  Gives you some spacing in case shaman double rolls and you have to do D3 damage so you dont lose the bonus.  Not much of a tarpit as they drop quickly unfortunately.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

The first lot of trays looks interesting.  not sure about the single row ones. As @RuneBrush said, they do look awkward.  As my grots have bows, I won't be aiming to move them a great deal, so the condensed trays might be the way to go. But I may see how easy it is to make my own as I have mdf, a drill and a jigsaw.  After all, I'll need 12 of them For 60 grots  (and if they work, maybe more!).

Big thing is it allows for you to create the cross board lines. Since space denial is a huge part of why you take grots it's kinda important to be able to do it easily which the lines allow. 

3 hours ago, Cvaldor said:

On the topic of allies I wanted to touch briefly on rock lobbers.  Just to recap a quick batrep I posted in another thread.  I used 2 rock lobbers at a recent event without much luck.  Them hitting on 2's against  horde units is great but I don't feel like I get my 200 points worth out of them.  Maybe in a battery of 4 you get their worth but I feel like spear  chukkas sniping heroes might be more effective if you can get through the rolls and the saves.

54 minutes ago, Cvaldor said:

Hmm... maybe I just had a bad day with them.  Going to see how I like running 30 arrowboyz screened by 30 ardboys.  

Anyone had any luck running 30 arrowboyz?  I've seen some lists with 20 and tempted to go that route but liking the bonus of 20+.  Gives you some spacing in case shaman double rolls and you have to do D3 damage so you dont lose the bonus.  Not much of a tarpit as they drop quickly unfortunately.

Couple of points, reiterating what I said in your thread, mainly put here for anyone who looks in the future. Also a point on the weirdnob shaman. Can't find the thread with it in  but the current wording of it and the FAQ's means that the weirdnob always takes the mortal wounds himself rather than passing them onto a nearby unit. Obviously not intended but it's how the rules work as written at the moment.

• The Rock Lobba is actually not an anti-horde tool in an Ironjawz army. It's an alternative to the Spear Chukkas role as hero sniping/reach.
• @Dez Shows us this perfectly in his first statement

  2 hours ago, Dez said:

  A way to reliably reach out and kill stuff. First turn I nuked the crew off of a Hellstorm Rocket Battery

   

• A hugely problematic unit which there is no way for us to deal with normally just gets deleted. 
• It has a few advantages over the spear chukka which I'll detail below. Make no mistake though that all Gitmob Artillery are technical tools in an Ironjawz army which require finese to properly get the most out of. Does require practice but can be hugely impactful.

Gitmob Artillery

• Provide Reach which allow us to circumvent blockers in order to remove key enemy pieces.
• Enemy Artillery, Heroes or Buff providing units are all key examples.
• To draw from @Cvaldor experience, knocking out death heroes to get rid of the "Deathless Minions" buff.
• Knocking out a Wightking with Infernal Standard is a briliant example of prime targets.

Lobba vs Chukka

1. Chukka is 2 Shots, 3+/3+/-2/D3
2. Lobber is 1 shot 3+/3+/-2/3
3. The Lobber is 20 points cheaper, so for a battery of 2 you save 40 points. This is the same as downgrading from a Weirdnob->Grot shaman or 5 Brutes -> 3 GG's
4. Rock Lobber doesn't require line of sight. This is important at higher skill games where your opponent will hide is key heroes out of line of sight to deny the snipes.
5. The Rock Lobber does exacly 3 damage, the Chukka does D3.
6. Since almost all heroes on foot have 5 or 6 wounds it's thus fair to state the Lobber requires 2 hits to kill a hero while a Chukka will require, on average, 3. 
7. The Chukka will more reliably put damage through, the Lobber will more reliably convert the hits it does into pure damage/kills.

The Below are tables showing the damage table odds of the Lobber vs the Chukka against a hero with a 4+ save. Again remember that Line of Sight is a part, so it's worth considering.

Spoiler

The first table doesn't actually include the odds of the extra shot. I've posted all of this into a spoiler because it complicates it all and I'm not awake enough to even attempt all the math regarding multiple shots along with the potential outcomes.

This is the damage output of a rock lobber Assuming the first shot hit and rolled a 6+. 

The one final note and consideration is that you can potentially fit 4 Rock Lobbers in your army for 2 batteries of 2. Against only 3 spear chukkas. Thus if you want to max out on the long range dunkage the rock lobbers will almost always work out better.

[Dez]

Yeah I should have mentioned, choosing your targets is super important. I knew that Hellstorm had to go, and so did the general. I knew I'd lose my to hit bonus, but it's still a 3+...and better than the nothing I had last GHB  They were also good to use vs 20 man units of Handgunners, because once below 20 the Handgunners lose some of their potency. That meant lots less of my Brutes dying due to the new Freeguild Great Company rule.

I was also pretty excited when my first 'To Hit' was a 6  roll because I had them right next to each other, in the middle of my deployment zone, behind terrain