Lets Chat: Darkling Covens

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

2 hours ago, Kaleun said:

guys I am thinking of getting an allied contingent of DoK for the Darkling Covens. Weaknesses we have is: pretty slow compared to other armies and Mortal wound output (except the Executioners, but we talked about that issue)

I would first play around with something like:

Bloodwrack Shrine 220
2xHeartrenders 160

now we can have a -1 to hit (via our sorceress) and a -1 to wound (enfeebling foe) while getting some mortal wounds out of the shrine. 2 units of Heartrenders threaten enemy mission objectives and can be used to snipe an important hero.

Other interesting options might be: Doomfire Warlocks, Blood Stalkers (for that ranged shooting) or the Medusa on a Balewind Vortex

All the other stuff seems to be better with the DoK Allegiance. On first sight.

I'm probably going to take 4 units of Heartrenders to try it out, haha, but the Bloodwrack Shrine synergizes GREAT in having the AoE mortal wounds, anti-horde gaze, and being able to cast some spells.  

[Kramer]

9 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

60 executioners = 1080pts

20+10+10 =40=720  at least those were the numbers you mentioned before. 

But for the people looking at allies and not worrying about the allegiance ability, I saw someone who converted a couldron of blood into a hurricanum. Looked really cool, and gives you a big boost to executioners but now also the arrow snake ladies. So first turn mortal wounds from snakey shooting moving everyhing forward. Second turn get the charge with the beefed up executioners  

 Could be cool. 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

3 hours ago, Kramer said:

20+10+10 =40=720  at least those were the numbers you mentioned before. 

But for the people looking at allies and not worrying about the allegiance ability, I saw someone who converted a couldron of blood into a hurricanum. Looked really cool, and gives you a big boost to executioners but now also the arrow snake ladies. So first turn mortal wounds from snakey shooting moving everyhing forward. Second turn get the charge with the beefed up executioners  

 Could be cool. 

"I was running a build with 60 executioners for 40+ games and it was the only thing I found to be decently competitive."

^ was from Twitch's post.  Please read.

Hurricanum + executioners and blood seekers could be a cool combo indeed with ORDER allegiance.  

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Allegiance: Order

480    Morathi (General)
380    Celestial Hurricanum (Phoenix Stone)

320    Blood Stalkers x 10
160    Blood Stalkers x 5
100    Bleakswords x 10
100    Bleakswords x 10
100    Bleakswords x 10
180    Executioners x 10
180    Executioners x 10

2000/2000

Combos are obvious in this one and it hinges on the Blood Stalkers doing 15 shots in the hero phase (with a boosted +hit profile), as well as in the shooting phase for 30 shots with averaging out 10-12 mortal wounds at range in a turn.  The Executioners will do their job, just a little bit better with the hurricanum support.  This lacks bodies, and Morathi can be dropped for other units (and may be more effective tbh), such as massive regiment of bleakswords for objectives, a balewind vortex, and some Sorceresses:
 

Allegiance: Order

380    Celestial Hurricanum (General)
100    Battlemage (Gray or Jade)

160    Blood Stalkers x 5
160    Blood Stalkers x 5
160    Blood Stalkers x 5
360    Dreadspears x 40
100    Bleakswords x 10
100    Bleakswords x 10
180    Executioners x 10
180    Executioners x 10

100    Balewind Vortex

1980/2000

You lack real heroes/behemoths for Duality of Death,  but the plan is to nuke whichever heroes they get close to there, and cause some area denial with the Bleakswords/Dreadspears

[Kaleun]

love that list ideas!

I also think that Morathi is better used in a DoK list. She is good for sure, but I see her synergize better with the DoK allegiance.

That battlemage doesnt make much sense in my opinion. The Sorceress for 80 points provides the -1 to hit and a mortal wound.

If you have the order allegiance anyway, consider the Reaper Bolt Throwers. The are awesome together with a Hurricanum.

[Twitch of Izalith]

On 02/03/2018 at 9:05 AM, Kaleun said:

If you have the order allegiance anyway, consider the Reaper Bolt Throwers. The are awesome together with a Hurricanum.

Also worth thinking about the Lord Ordinator - either with or instead of the Hurricanum if you are taking Reapers 

On 28/02/2018 at 10:46 PM, GammaMage said:

I already said I was planning on doing that.

 

Anyway, let me ask m y my inital question again: Are the spells good enough that it's worthwhile me asking my opponent to let me take them, or is that more effort than it's worth?

 

Lore of Shadows does look strong in a DoK list.  Not sure if it  is DoK only or "friendly unit" but the standout spell is Mind Razor which gives you an additional -1 to Rend and +1 damage if the target unit has lower bravery.  Lack of Rend is probably one of the biggest problems for DC so this spell would be useful for sure. It would make your executioners useful even if they got hit with a -1 to hit and imagine how good Black Guard would be with -2 Rend and 2 Damage! There's also a movement spell which is caster only that might work well on SoBD.

I'll check the wording when I get home.

Another option is to ask your opponent if you can select spells from any of the GA Order + Compendium Dark elf units. We were playing this as a house rule for friendly games and it worked pretty well without being powerful enough to upset anyone. So it gives you Chill Wind (sorceress on drakespawn) and Roiling Blackness (Sorceress on Dark Pegasus) + Doombolt (doomfire warlocks) aswell as word of pain and bladewind. We also gave the SoBD 2 spells and 2 casts per turn. She's still overcosted even then  

Its pretty bad that the faction that only has WIZARD keyword characters is so weak in the magic phase!

Just re-reading Khaine (end times supplement) this weekend and noted that Tullaris Dreadbringer is not necessarily completely gone - sure he got a sword in the head but he wasn't decapitated which seems to be end times code for - "We are never bringing this character back - ever" and its indicated that he ascends to some higher purpose in the service of Khaine. It would be great to have some truly bad-ass combat characters.

I'm not sure how much attention DC will get going forward - I think a book is a long way off unless they end up with Malekith (Malerion but i refuse to call him that because its sounds like an anti-malaria drug) The models are pretty new and all plastic so hopefully they will keep the range going. I might buy some bleakswords (only got spears and shards so far) and another Dragon because the dragon seems sooo cheap now at £32 when you look at how much Morathi costs!

I hope we at least get some points fixes in GH2018 (the SoBD should be 220 - 240 and the shards/swords/spears should all be 80 i.mo.)

No matter how good the DoK are I'm already planning to cheat on them with my Darkling Covens next weekend  

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

49 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Also worth thinking about the Lord Ordinator - either with or instead of the Hurricanum if you are taking Reapers 

Lore of Shadows does look strong in a DoK list.  Not sure if it  is DoK only or "friendly unit" but the standout spell is Mind Razor which gives you an additional -1 to Rend and +1 damage if the target unit has lower bravery.  Lack of Rend is probably one of the biggest problems for DC so this spell would be useful for sure. It would make your executioners useful even if they got hit with a -1 to hit and imagine how good Black Guard would be with -2 Rend and 2 Damage! There's also a movement spell which is caster only that might work well on SoBD.

I'll check the wording when I get home.

Another option is to ask your opponent if you can select spells from any of the GA Order + Compendium Dark elf units. We were playing this as a house rule for friendly games and it worked pretty well without being powerful enough to upset anyone. So it gives you Chill Wind (sorceress on drakespawn) and Roiling Blackness (Sorceress on Dark Pegasus) + Doombolt (doomfire warlocks) aswell as word of pain and bladewind. We also gave the SoBD 2 spells and 2 casts per turn. She's still overcosted even then  

Its pretty bad that the faction that only has WIZARD keyword characters is so weak in the magic phase!

Just re-reading Khaine (end times supplement) this weekend and noted that Tullaris Dreadbringer is not necessarily completely gone - sure he got a sword in the head but he wasn't decapitated which seems to be end times code for - "We are never bringing this character back - ever" and its indicated that he ascends to some higher purpose in the service of Khaine. It would be great to have some truly bad-ass combat characters.

I'm not sure how much attention DC will get going forward - I think a book is a long way off unless they end up with Malekith (Malerion but i refuse to call him that because its sounds like an anti-malaria drug) The models are pretty new and all plastic so hopefully they will keep the range going. I might buy some bleakswords (only got spears and shards so far) and another Dragon because the dragon seems sooo cheap now at £32 when you look at how much Morathi costs!

I hope we at least get some points fixes in GH2018 (the SoBD should be 220 - 240 and the shards/swords/spears should all be 80 i.mo.)

No matter how good the DoK are I'm already planning to cheat on them with my Darkling Covens next weekend  

Fairly certain you need a DoK army to pick from the lore/spells.  I also do hope that Malekith is added to an existing faction like Morathi was... but sadly I don't think it would be Darkling Covens since their lore is Sorceress based, but perhaps Order Draconis?  Shadow-dragon elves?  Seems like it would be a thing to me.

[Twitch of Izalith]

1 hour ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Fairly certain you need a DoK army to pick from the lore/spells.  I also do hope that Malekith is added to an existing faction like Morathi was... but sadly I don't think it would be Darkling Covens since their lore is Sorceress based, but perhaps Order Draconis?  Shadow-dragon elves?  Seems like it would be a thing to me.

Did you look it up? I think you are right but I was gonna check if i could find anything for @GammaMage 

I don't think the fact that the covens are led by sorceresses would have to be a problem - It was Malekith who set up the sorceress convents in 6th edition after Caledor told him about the prophecy of demise -  and if you think about what they have done with Morathi over the years - She has gone from being focused around Khaine, to leader of the Slaanesh Pleasure Cults, to Leading the sorceress convents and claiming to be Hekarti reborn and then back to Khaine again... Malekith taking control of the Darkling Covens would not be a big step.

I love the idea of a shadow-dragon faction though - the aztec theme of the Lizardmen never appealed to me but some dragonkin aelves and assorted dragon hybrids would be potentially my perfect faction  Aren't the drakespawn created artificially in AoS?? It would be cool to see more variations on the theme. Have you seen the Mierce Minatures Brythoniaid range? the dragon dudes are really cool. (sorry I can't spell anything from Mierce Miniatures!!!)

[GammaMage]

Lore of Shadow in DC is definitly a house rule. Due to DC getting allegiance traits in the GHB, I doubt they will be doing something with them soon. Or ever, the reginmented units don't fit the new aelf aesthetic they seem to be going for.

 

I have a decent Daughters of Khaine core already, and I'll mostly be playing them from now on. But it would be nice to bust out the Darkling Coven ever so often.

[Redbaron]

Hello all, I was wondering if I could get some ideas for a theoretical list. I’ve got a good Darkling Covens force coming together for 2000points, but I’m keen to grow the collection and talk with my gaming buddy has now turned to expanding up to 3000points. So, what would people pick for a 3000-point force? It can basically be a ‘blue sky’ plan for anything you like, but the restrictions are:

must have DC allegiance in order to be appropriately fluffy

max of 600pts of allies (20% of the total)

otherwise matched play appropriate for games (not competitive, but maximum Dark Elf flavour!)

any thoughts and suggestions gratefully received!

[Twitch of Izalith]

Hey @Redbaron I think I would probably just take another 2 units of 30 Executioners to expand my normal list  

Seriously though I have played a couple of friendly games at 3000 points and you get quite a horde! It looks more like a warhammer fantasy army - which it still is in many ways.

You suffer quite a lot from lack of variety in heroes and spells and even units to some extent as soon as you go above 2000 points. This isn't exactly the list I ran as I only have 2 dragons and 20 blackguard but if I had those extra 11 models I would run this. I loved being able to do the city guard formations with 10 swords, 10 spears, 10 crossbows all working together. 

Allegiance: Darkling Covens

Leaders
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- Witch Rod
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- Witch Rod
Sorceress (80)
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- Exile Blade & Shield
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Black Guard (430)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
20 x Executioners (360)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Dreadspears (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Dreadspears (100)
20 x Executioners (360)
- Darkling Covens Battleline

Units
5 x Dark Riders (120)
- Allies
5 x Dark Riders (120)
- Allies

Total: 2990 / 3000
Allies: 560 / 500
Wounds: 197
 

[Redbaron]

Thanks @Twitch of Izalith For the advice!  Can I ask why Witch Rods are the go-to choice for the SoBD, out of curiosity?

also, what makes you pick Dark Riders? I know Order Serpentis lets you ally in the heavier Cold One knights, should you wish, so I was curious. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

Hi @Redbaron sorry I did't really mention the artefacts and weapons! The witch rod wounds on a 3+ and has -1 rend , D3 Damage  - so even though you only get 1 attack you will usually end up doing more damage than the 3 4+, 4+ sword attacks. The sorceress getting any damage is always just a bonus anyway. Its the dragon that does the work!

I usually take the decanter of egos for the artefact and sustained by misery for the command trait. Most people seem to favour impossibly swift for the -1 but I fly the sorceress around with the dreadlord (making a sort of a 2 dragon unit) and between them they tend to wreck stuff hard enough that it doesn't thow enough attacks back for the -1 to give its maximum benefit. since i try to keep her in combat getting a d3 heal in each combat phase (yours and opponents seems to work out better but it will depend what kind of armies your opponents have.

The dark riders are 120 points instead of 160 for the knights so I couldn't fit 2 units in with the dreadlord but if you are not taking him then a couple of units might be a good choice - and they are super cool models! I think they are about 20 points too expensive to be honest though. I find the dark riders really useful. The 14" move is great for grabbing late game objectives (in starstrike for example) + you get 15 shooting attacks so they are quite versatile and can do damage while staying out of combat.

Which ever you go for I would recommend a couple of fast units as other than the dragons you don't really have any. You could also look at Warlocks from Daughters of Khaine or maybe some of the new melusai units. Morathi is also an option in 3000 points list Morathi and 3 SoBD would be scary . I stayed away from them because I think the other subfactions are more thematic as allies for DC.

Even with all the new shiny from DoK I still can't stop playing with my DC lists - hopefully they get some love from Workshop at some point - or they at least drop the points for the dragons in GH2018

[Zuriaxis]

Greeting folks! I've been looking into Dark Aelves ever since the DoK release, and while DC may lack some oomph, it looks to be a steady, solid horde army. With that I've compiled a small list to get started with, what do y'all think? 

-------

Allegiance: Darkling Covens

Leaders
Sorceress (80)
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Witch Rod
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 

Battleline
20 x Dreadspears (200)
20 x Dreadspears (200)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
20 x Executioners (360)

Units
10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (160)
- Allies

Total: 1500
Allies: 160
Wounds: 109

-------

Should I get more Darkshards/combine them into one? Looks sort of fragile but with the way Allegiances work you're sorta stuck with what you've got.

[Kaleun]

combine the 2x20 Dreadspears for the Discount! You want that one. I would go for 2x5 Heartrenders instead. You want to take far away mission objectives with them. Therefore you need them as a small (placable) unit and making them two gives you flexibility.

So I think the list is ok. Sure you want 1500 Points? It is Kind of a weird size post GH2.

[Zuriaxis]

My group mainly plays 1000 points, but some want to play 2000+. I figured a happy medium would work, but you're right it really is a weird place to pick points at. I'll have to get with the folks and figure something out.

I had a question about the Darkling Covens though: should I put them on round bases to modernize them for AoS or leave them on their stock square bases?

[Kaleun]

ok then 1500 really is weird. Opt. for 2000 points. With that you can form a lot of 1000 point lists.

for me personally it is square bases! There is some discussion about that issue. I like to move my big Squad of Dreadsprears all together as one regiment and square bases give me that. I am quicker while deployment and moving then.

[Redbaron]

Hello all, 

i saw that GW, in their recent AdeptiCon announcement said they’d be re-releasing various old classic models from their ranges, starting with the dark elves. Does anybody have any plans to pick up some notable figures? I know they aren’t any good for matched play, but given the fondness for the faction fluff and the lack of hero variety, I imagine the chance to get a dreadlord on a cold one, or a sorceress on a dark Pegasus would be quite appealing?

[Twitch of Izalith]

2 hours ago, Redbaron said:

Hello all, 

i saw that GW, in their recent AdeptiCon announcement said they’d be re-releasing various old classic models from their ranges, starting with the dark elves. Does anybody have any plans to pick up some notable figures? I know they aren’t any good for matched play, but given the fondness for the faction fluff and the lack of hero variety, I imagine the chance to get a dreadlord on a cold one, or a sorceress on a dark Pegasus would be quite appealing?

I think there will be rules for named characters too - so it looks like we will have AoS warscrolls for Malus Darkblade, Lokhir Fellheart etc aswell as the generic dreadlords and sorceress options.

Morathi will be fairly unique having 3 warscrolls (though Legends scrolls will not be for matched play) High Oracle, Shadow Queen and Hag Sorceress .

I'll probably buy all of them depending on the cost - definitely the cold one sorceress and Morathi. Despite them being my favourite race I never had a warhammer fantasy dark elf force as lots of other players in the groups I played with had them already!

Thats why I jumped on them from the start of AoS while everybody else was interested in something else!

@Zuriaxis Have a look at some Bleakswords too so you have a unit that can advance with your executioners more effectively. The spears get benefit from standing still so you want to use them more defensively. I only have spears myself and I'm always wishing I had a few Bleakswords so maybe worth a look if you haven't already built all the models. Lots of people are enjoying running the Horde version of DC but I personally find either an elite heavy (min 3 x 10 battleline at 2000pts) or a 50/50 split to be more engaging to play with.

Nothing is flat out terrible though so definitely just use the models you like for the first 1000 points at least. Actually now I've said that the sorceress on Black Dragon is pretty bad for 300 points but she looks really nice  and its a really cheap kit compared to the new monster kits! always a bonus 

[Twitch of Izalith]

19 hours ago, Zuriaxis said:

I had a question about the Darkling Covens though: should I put them on round bases to modernize them for AoS or leave them on their stock square bases?

They all look better on rounds to be honest. I would only leave them on squares if you will be playing warhammer fantasy or 9th Age with them also.

[Slave2Chaos]

As a holdover from my large 8th dark elf collection I have the following.

- dragon

- sorceress

- 30 swords

- 30 executioners

- 20 xbows

so about 1360 points, while I’m focusing on DoK right now I would like to have the option to run a covens list should I choose. Which means I need to bring the list up to about 1600 points. I can fill out the rest with DoK or Order Serp allies.

Any recommendation on what I should be adding?

Im in a fairly competitive meta with plenty of Death and DoT at the moment, also plenty of other people are on the DoK bandwagon too, if that’s any help.

 

[Kaleun]

add some Black Guard so you can work with the Thrall Warhost. DoK is good for the Heartrenders. Some mobility is much needed for the Darkling Covens.

[Kyriakin]

Just in case the upcoming legacy warscroll changes remove the Tomb Kings from Matched Play, I'll start revisiting my dust-gathering backup army:

Allegiance: Darkling Covens
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Witch Rod
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos 
Sorceress (80) - ***Word of Pain***
Sorceress (80) - ***Backup Word of Pain***
10 x Bleakswords (100) - ***Bubblewrap Executioners + Sacrifices***
10 x Bleakswords (100) - ***Bubblewrap Executioners + Sacrifices***
30 x Executioners (480)
30 x Executioners (480)
2 x Tempestors (220) - ***Rush out early and auto-debuff biggest ranged threat*** (If only they were 200 points!)
- Allies
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160) - ***Rush out to grab an objective or speedbump the biggest combat threat***
- Allies

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 380 / 400
Wounds: 124

For the Tempestors, I am thinking of converting these Gamezone guys to hold a large crossbow. I think the Drakespawn-esque mount is broad enough to represent a Drakoth, while the rider combines the metallic element of the Stormcast with the overall form of an Aelf:

[Kyriakin]

On 23/03/2018 at 11:14 PM, Slave2Chaos said:

As a holdover from my large 8th dark elf collection I have the following.

- dragon

- sorceress

- 30 swords

- 30 executioners

- 20 xbows

so about 1360 points, while I’m focusing on DoK right now I would like to have the option to run a covens list should I choose. Which means I need to bring the list up to about 1600 points. I can fill out the rest with DoK or Order Serp allies.

Any recommendation on what I should be adding?

Im in a fairly competitive meta with plenty of Death and DoT at the moment, also plenty of other people are on the DoK bandwagon too, if that’s any help.

It's not a bad start, really.

Bleakswords to screen the Executioners. Darkshards to shoot into combat from behind.

You will need more Darkshards, or take none at all. A 10-20-10 formation in the backfield will allow Lethal Coordination to keep Storm of Iron-tipped Bolts activated on all three units.

Also, I didn't do the maths on how your Executioners are arranged to give 1360 total, but 1x30 is best if you opponent does not have a -1 to hit ability (i.e. one similar to the Word of Pain). Otherwise, they should be split into 3x10 to avoid them all having Decapitating Blow potentially switched off at the same time.

Black Guard fall into the category of "one-wound elite", along with the likes of Stormvermin, Tomb Guard, Grave Guard, (etc.). Fragile as hell, but could potentially be a "dark horse" if all the attention on the SoBD and, rightly, Executioners. If they get in relatively unscathed, these types of units can wreck face.

I have never considered the Battalion, because I never wanted to paint all those generic infantry. I guess it's useful if you can give the Executioners (i) two bites at a tough enemy unit or (ii) a slingshot further up the table after killing a weaker initial unit. Not sure if this ability and a potential one-drop list is worth the 180 points and forcing you to take three generic units and Black Guard. However, I guess you must also factor in the fact that you will also be able to use both the Shadowshroud Ring (one-use turning off shooting and ranged magic against the wearer) and Decanter of Egos (one-use +3 to move to all units) as artefacts.

I think allies should be all about mobility, as that's what this army fundamentally lacks (even the quick SoBD is kinda forced to stay close to the footslogging infantry, as her Tyrannical Ruler battleshock-ignoring allegiance ability and magic-casting sacrifices only have a puny 3" range).

[Twitch of Izalith]

On 31/03/2018 at 8:01 AM, Kyriakin said:

Just in case the upcoming legacy warscroll changes remove the Tomb Kings from Matched Play, I'll start revisiting my dust-gathering backup army:

Allegiance: Darkling Covens
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Witch Rod
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos 
Sorceress (80) - ***Word of Pain***
Sorceress (80) - ***Backup Word of Pain***
10 x Bleakswords (100) - ***Bubblewrap Executioners + Sacrifices***
10 x Bleakswords (100) - ***Bubblewrap Executioners + Sacrifices***
30 x Executioners (480)
30 x Executioners (480)
2 x Tempestors (220) - ***Rush out early and auto-debuff biggest ranged threat*** (If only they were 200 points!)
- Allies
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160) - ***Rush out to grab an objective or speedbump the biggest combat threat***
- Allies

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 380 / 400
Wounds: 124

For the Tempestors, I am thinking of converting these Gamezone guys to hold a large crossbow. I think the Drakespawn-esque mount is broad enough to represent a Drakoth, while the rider combines the metallic element of the Stormcast with the overall form of an Aelf:

Oooh nice model. He looks more like a Fulminator with that twinblade. I hadn't really thought about adding some stormcast for offensive power but a couple of dracothian guard might work well. I have 4 Fulminators in my SCE collection so might look at playing a game with a couple as allies.

The idea of a more offensive screen is really cool - I do it all the time in 40k so I'm surprised I didn't think of trying something like that myself  Thanks for the lightbulb moment!!

I like your list in general. Big fan of executioners though I am now running 30 and 2 x 10's instead of 2 blocks of 30. I found it quite hard to look after 2 big units at the same time. I sometimes do 20,10, 10 & 20 Black Guard too. 50 - 60 elites of one description or another is pretty much essential in my experience though - if you are playing against tough lists.

I like the idea of something focused on spears/swords & xbows but I'm not sure it would work that well. If they dropped the points to 80 and the massive regiment bonus to 30 models I would probably bite the bullet and buy another 3 boxes to make some bleakswords.