Lets Chat: Darkling Covens

[Kramer]

What's up people!

I have a tournament day coming up with friends. So nothing to competitive. But i'm struggling a bit with my limited models (don't want to proxy anything but could paint up a unit before that). We'll be playing 2 or 3 4 player games in a day at 1,5K each. 2 battleline and 300pt of allies. What are fun things you would add/replace in this list?*

Sorceress on Black Dragon
- Impossibly swift
- Decanter of Egos

sorceress 

30 dreadspears
20 dark shards
10 executioners
10 executioners

1 death hag 

20 witch elves 

For 1,5K exactly. 

*mostly because i'm looking for my next paint project  

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

6 hours ago, Kramer said:

What's up people!

I have a tournament day coming up with friends. So nothing to competitive. But i'm struggling a bit with my limited models (don't want to proxy anything but could paint up a unit before that). We'll be playing 2 or 3 4 player games in a day at 1,5K each. 2 battleline and 300pt of allies. What are fun things you would add/replace in this list?*

Sorceress on Black Dragon
- Impossibly swift
- Decanter of Egos

sorceress 

30 dreadspears
20 dark shards
10 executioners
10 executioners

1 death hag 

20 witch elves 

For 1,5K exactly. 

*mostly because i'm looking for my next paint project  

Allegiance: Darkling Covens

Leaders
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 

Battleline
20 x Executioners (360)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
10 x Black Guard (160)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
20 x Darkshards (200)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)

Battalions
Thrall Warhost (180)

Total: 1480 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
 

 

Allegiance: Darkling Covens

Leaders
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 

Battleline
20 x Executioners (360)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
10 x Black Guard (160)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
20 x Darkshards (200)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)

Behemoths
War Hydra (200)

Total: 1500 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
 

Pretty sure you'd do decently.

[Redbaron]

Hello everyone,

 

I have started my own collection of Dark Elves, largely 'fluffy' in nature, to play games with a friend - so not tournament competitive or anything like that, but I still want it to be decent on the tabletop!  I hope this is the place for some advice on artefacts, commands, tactics, etc.  Any thoughts, advice, or just general chat is all welcome.  

My list is for 2000 points, and runs roughly as follows:

Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Sustained by Misery
- Darkling Sword
- Artefact : Shadesliver
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact : Decanter of Egos
Death Hag (60)
- Witch Brew
- Artefact : Quicksilver Potion
- Allies
Assassin (80)
- Artefact : Obstinate Blade
- Allies
Units
10 x Executioners (180)
10 x Black Guard (160)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
20 x Dreadspears (200)
10 x Dreadspears (100)
10 x Dreadspears (100)
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Allies
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160)
- Allies
Battalions
Thrall Warhost (180)
Total: 2000 / 2000

Allies: 400 / 400
Leaders: 4/6 Battlelines: 8 (3+) Behemoths: 1/4 Artillery: 0/4
Wounds: 139

[Eocosa]

Looks fun, and I may be off, but are you allowed to give allied leaders artifacts?

Also I am not sure how you're able to have more then 2 artifacts (1 base + 1 from the battalion).

Are you just starting fresh or using models you already own? I only ask because it seems bleakswords are generally seen as the better general infantry unit so you may want to look how your planned tactics would work switching those out. If using what you have (I have a TON of spears myself), the difference isn't that big most often.

I do really like your MSU approach which diminishes battleshock somewhat (if your unit lost THAT many, you were losing a ton to battleshock).

If you could find a way to maybe trim a little for more executioners (mortal wounds is HUGE), I don't think you'd regrets it!

One more off hand note on MSU, if playing with a core group, be sure to mix up where your assassin goes! I feel you keep it consistently in one place battle to battle, any opponent w range will do all they can to obliterate it before he is "revealed". Let the fun mind games ensue!

[Kramer]

On 12/30/2017 at 4:15 AM, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Allegiance: Darkling Covens

Leaders
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 

Battleline
20 x Executioners (360)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
10 x Black Guard (160)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
20 x Darkshards (200)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)

Battalions
Thrall Warhost (180)

Total: 1480 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
 

 

Allegiance: Darkling Covens

Leaders
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 

Battleline
20 x Executioners (360)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
10 x Black Guard (160)
- Darkling Covens Battleline
20 x Darkshards (200)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)

Behemoths
War Hydra (200)

Total: 1500 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
 

Pretty sure you'd do decently.

For some reason I missed your response. No less grateful though! The War Hydra is a good one! Love the model so might just be the next addition. Don't really like the black guard though, so they are sadly of the table. (like the style, but they are too static for elite units imo. But hey, that's the restriction if you have to design for ranked models). 

Also took a bit of inspiration from @Redbaron's list. So i'll be splitting the darkshards and spears into respectively 10x10 10x20. I think I will keep one bigger unit to take advantage of the second caster who will most likely be casting mystical shield. 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Reviewing 2 potential lists to try out:

Allegiance: Darkling Covens
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Anklet of Epiphany 
Sorceress (80)
Sorceress (80)
30 x Bleakswords (300)
20 x Darkshards (200)
20 x Executioners (360)
20 x Black Guard (320)
Thrall Warhost (180)
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119


OR 

Allegiance: Darkling Covens
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Anklet of Epiphany 
Sorceress (80)
40 x Bleakswords (360)
20 x Darkshards (200)
20 x Executioners (360)
20 x Black Guard (320)
Thrall Warhost (180)
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124

The first list has 4 spellcasters, being able to cast each spell, and on a Balewind, you'll have some mortal wound pressure, with bleaksword/darkshard bodies to sacrifice.  The second list has only 3 spellcasters, but 40 Bleakswords which will be your wall that you use the command ability run + charge and the warhost special ability to tie stuff up while your executioners/blackguard wreak havoc.  Also, the unit of 40 you keep your general nearby to make immune to battleshock.  Thoughts?

[Redbaron]

21 hours ago, Eocosa said:

Looks fun, and I may be off, but are you allowed to give allied leaders artifacts?

Also I am not sure how you're able to have more then 2 artifacts (1 base + 1 from the battalion).

Are you just starting fresh or using models you already own? I only ask because it seems bleakswords are generally seen as the better general infantry unit so you may want to look how your planned tactics would work switching those out. If using what you have (I have a TON of spears myself), the difference isn't that big most often.

I do really like your MSU approach which diminishes battleshock somewhat (if your unit lost THAT many, you were losing a ton to battleshock).

If you could find a way to maybe trim a little for more executioners (mortal wounds is HUGE), I don't think you'd regrets it!

One more off hand note on MSU, if playing with a core group, be sure to mix up where your assassin goes! I feel you keep it consistently in one place battle to battle, any opponent w range will do all they can to obliterate it before he is "revealed". Let the fun mind games ensue!

Hi Eocosa,

I put the list together on GW's Warscroll buider, so I imagine the artifacts are allowed?  Not 100% on them or their effects yet, I must admit.  :-)

I'm currently at the painting and assembling stage, and after starting my collection off from eBay I've bought the rest from GW online.  I gathered from the thread that bleakswords are seen as superior, but curiously I've always had the idea (back from Warmaster, perhaps?) that High & Dark Elf armies should really be mostly spears and bows.  At any rate, working on that hunch has led to me getting lots of spearmen - at least they'll be resilient!  

I had initially intended to go with a massive block of spearmen, as I had noticed most troops get a boost on their warscroll when they have 20+ models.  But then I saw the Darkling Covens allegiance rule for 'Lethal Coordination' and realised it was practically begging you to field MSU forces!  My buddy I'm intending to play against is collecting a Destruction army and a fondness for Grots, so he'll be going the opposite way with massive blocks of fodder - I'm curious to see how the two different approaches do when we reach the table!  

I'll have a think about the extra Executioners, as mortal wounds are plainly a big deal - I'll need to decide before I assemble them at any rate!   

[Redbaron]

8 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Reviewing 2 potential lists to try out:

Allegiance: Darkling Covens
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Anklet of Epiphany 
Sorceress (80)
Sorceress (80)
30 x Bleakswords (300)
20 x Darkshards (200)
20 x Executioners (360)
20 x Black Guard (320)
Thrall Warhost (180)
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119


OR 

Allegiance: Darkling Covens
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Anklet of Epiphany 
Sorceress (80)
40 x Bleakswords (360)
20 x Darkshards (200)
20 x Executioners (360)
20 x Black Guard (320)
Thrall Warhost (180)
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124

The first list has 4 spellcasters, being able to cast each spell, and on a Balewind, you'll have some mortal wound pressure, with bleaksword/darkshard bodies to sacrifice.  The second list has only 3 spellcasters, but 40 Bleakswords which will be your wall that you use the command ability run + charge and the warhost special ability to tie stuff up while your executioners/blackguard wreak havoc.  Also, the unit of 40 you keep your general nearby to make immune to battleshock.  Thoughts?

Hi @Black_Fortress_Immortal and thanks for the advice!  I wasn't too sure if there was a limit on the number of times you could cast a spell, so I had held off a big sorceress 'coven' - is it allowed to let rip with repeated castings of 'arcane bolt'?  The option of a big 'block' unit is appealing, I have to admit - it's a notion I keep thinking about.  Beyond that, what's your thinking behind the artefact choices, and the balewind vortex?  (This may be obvious to a more experienced player, but I'm short on games at present and still learning, reading up, etc.)  Ta!

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

6 minutes ago, Redbaron said:

Hi @Black_Fortress_Immortal and thanks for the advice!  I wasn't too sure if there was a limit on the number of times you could cast a spell, so I had held off a big sorceress 'coven' - is it allowed to let rip with repeated castings of 'arcane bolt'?  The option of a big 'block' unit is appealing, I have to admit - it's a notion I keep thinking about.  Beyond that, what's your thinking behind the artefact choices, and the balewind vortex?  (This may be obvious to a more experienced player, but I'm short on games at present and still learning, reading up, etc.)  Ta!

Sure thing!

Well the reason for being able to cast 4 spells is two-fold.  It's a one-drop battalion, allowing you to let the enemy go first and get in range, or to go and get your sorceress on the Balewind vortex (which DOUBLES the range of your spells and prevents any movement 3" around the base of the scenery).  The sorceress has Word of Pain, sorceress on dragon has Bladewind, and you have Mystic Shield and Arcane Bolt - all 4 spells are very useful, and you're able to sacrifice a measly model for a whopping +2 to your casting rolls.  Throwing mortal wound spells at the enemy is always useful - Bladewind has a potential of 6 mortal wounds, Arcane Bolt 3 mortal wounds, and Word of Pain for 1 = 10 mortal wounds (if very lucky), as well as the -1 to hit debuff.  I think that maximizing your spellcasting is great, and having a horde of bodies around you that you can easily make immune to battleshock is important.  The Mystic Shield and Command Abilities for Darkling Covens (run + charge, reroll 1s to wound) are better on a unit of 20-40 models -- a 6" movement unit that runs d6" and charges 2d6" is basically 6+3d6 = avg 14" threat range with a rerollable charge dice (musician).  It seems useful to buff up your Bleakswords, run them up the field to take an objective or tie them up in combat, debuff a heavy hitter via Balewind Vortex and Word of Pain, and protect your Executioners/Blackguards, using your battalion ability to throw them into combat in your next hero phase.

[Aelfric]

2 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Sure thing!

Well the reason for being able to cast 4 spells is two-fold.  It's a one-drop battalion, allowing you to let the enemy go first and get in range, or to go and get your sorceress on the Balewind vortex (which DOUBLES the range of your spells and prevents any movement 3" around the base of the scenery).  The sorceress has Word of Pain, sorceress on dragon has Bladewind, and you have Mystic Shield and Arcane Bolt - all 4 spells are very useful, and you're able to sacrifice a measly model for a whopping +2 to your casting rolls.  Throwing mortal wound spells at the enemy is always useful - Bladewind has a potential of 6 mortal wounds, Arcane Bolt 3 mortal wounds, and Word of Pain for 1 = 10 mortal wounds (if very lucky), as well as the -1 to hit debuff.  I think that maximizing your spellcasting is great, and having a horde of bodies around you that you can easily make immune to battleshock is important.  The Mystic Shield and Command Abilities for Darkling Covens (run + charge, reroll 1s to wound) are better on a unit of 20-40 models -- a 6" movement unit that runs d6" and charges 2d6" is basically 6+3d6 = avg 14" threat range with a rerollable charge dice (musician).  It seems useful to buff up your Bleakswords, run them up the field to take an objective or tie them up in combat, debuff a heavy hitter via Balewind Vortex and Word of Pain, and protect your Executioners/Blackguards, using your battalion ability to throw them into combat in your next hero phase.

Surely, if the Sorceress is on a Balewind then she cannot use Blood Sacrifice: She can only sacrifice a model within 3" and the Balewind has a 3" exclusion zone.

[someone2040]

5 hours ago, Redbaron said:

I put the list together on GW's Warscroll buider, so I imagine the artifacts are allowed?  Not 100% on them or their effects yet, I must admit.  :-)

Warscroll Builder does not validate that your list is correct. It is mainly a quick tool for writing up lists, but the onus is on the user to ensure the list is valid.

Such flexibility is both good and bad. Bad for people who are new and don't understand the nuances of the rules when it comes to list writing, but good for people who don't specifically play by the official rules.

So in regards to artefacts. You only get 1 artefact in your army + 1 for each warscroll battalion you include.

[someone2040]

2 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Surely, if the Sorceress is on a Balewind then she cannot use Blood Sacrifice: She can only sacrifice a model within 3" and the Balewind has a 3" exclusion zone.

You could always sacrifice before you summon the Balewind Vortex. The bonuses last until the end of the phase.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

9 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Surely, if the Sorceress is on a Balewind then she cannot use Blood Sacrifice: She can only sacrifice a model within 3" and the Balewind has a 3" exclusion zone.

You sacrifice BEFORE you get on the Balewind... then your success rate for the Arcane Bolt is 100%, and very high for Word of Pain.

[Redbaron]

Thanks to all for the good advice that's popping up here. Going with a sorceress 'gang of four' does seem to offer a lot of mortal wound hitting power, which I hadn't clearly picked up on before. The bale wind vortex is also clearly a thing I need to try out. 

Also @someone2040 thanks for the advice with the artifacts, which is good to know. I'll have a think about what two I should use. Part of the problem is that I don't really know what to do with the sorceress on a black dragon - she's not great in melee but it seems mad to not use her that way! I'm thinking SbM as a command trait to try and keep her alive (and surrounded with minions, hopefully) and perhaps Shadesliver as the artifact, to at least give hope of building up some serious damage-dealing.  

Or maybe not, and she's best flying around to the rear, casting magic? ?

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

8 hours ago, Redbaron said:

Thanks to all for the good advice that's popping up here. Going with a sorceress 'gang of four' does seem to offer a lot of mortal wound hitting power, which I hadn't clearly picked up on before. The bale wind vortex is also clearly a thing I need to try out. 

Also @someone2040 thanks for the advice with the artifacts, which is good to know. I'll have a think about what two I should use. Part of the problem is that I don't really know what to do with the sorceress on a black dragon - she's not great in melee but it seems mad to not use her that way! I'm thinking SbM as a command trait to try and keep her alive (and surrounded with minions, hopefully) and perhaps Shadesliver as the artifact, to at least give hope of building up some serious damage-dealing.  

Or maybe not, and she's best flying around to the rear, casting magic? ?

There's a reason why 3 of the Command Traits for Darkling Covens generals are survivability/healing related, and why there are 2 defensive artifacts as well - yes, the SoBD is meant to be in melee, but she isn't a "tank."  She is good when buffed up up with Mystic Shield and she's facing down a horde that has been debuffed with Word of Pain - if she has Impossibly Swift, then the enemy unit has -2 to their hit rolls!  Her dragon's breath is made for destroying hordes, and would be a good way to get a few mortal wounds off on a blob of enemies.

[Aelfric]

On 12/01/2018 at 11:58 AM, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

You sacrifice BEFORE you get on the Balewind... then your success rate for the Arcane Bolt is 100%, and very high for Word of Pain.

Yes that's true, hadn't considered that.  But She can't sacrifice in any rounds beyond the first so long as she's on the Balewind.  I suppose it's swings and roundabouts.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

Yes that's true, hadn't considered that.  But She can't sacrifice in any rounds beyond the first so long as she's on the Balewind.  I suppose it's swings and roundabouts.

 

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

Yes that's true, hadn't considered that.  But She can't sacrifice in any rounds beyond the first so long as she's on the Balewind.  I suppose it's swings and roundabouts.

Right, but the point is to get that crucial Word of Pain off on a dangerous unit.

[Redbaron]

Thanks everybody.  Looks like I'm going to have to plan a little spending 'diversion' into scenery, and get myself a vortex.  Certainly sounds like a handy thing to have!  I'll also make use of the SoBD as you advise - it does indeed seem to be a melee unit, although as you rightly point out, one that needs to be carefully handled.  I get the feeling that Darkling Covens armies seem to be very versatile at doing what you want, although not powered up to a crazy degree like some of the other 'battletome' factions out there are.  Still, hope for the future I think - and in the meantime there are always allies!  Can't quite persuade myself to go for Stormcast Eternals quite yet, but the rest of them are at least very close thematically (Daughters of Khaine, Shadowblades, Order Serpentis, etc.)  

I'm currently painting away at my army.  I'll try to take a few photos and stick them in the gallery (I'm making myself use the forum as much as possible, to try and be an active participant!)

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

2 hours ago, Redbaron said:

Thanks everybody.  Looks like I'm going to have to plan a little spending 'diversion' into scenery, and get myself a vortex.  Certainly sounds like a handy thing to have!  I'll also make use of the SoBD as you advise - it does indeed seem to be a melee unit, although as you rightly point out, one that needs to be carefully handled.  I get the feeling that Darkling Covens armies seem to be very versatile at doing what you want, although not powered up to a crazy degree like some of the other 'battletome' factions out there are.  Still, hope for the future I think - and in the meantime there are always allies!  Can't quite persuade myself to go for Stormcast Eternals quite yet, but the rest of them are at least very close thematically (Daughters of Khaine, Shadowblades, Order Serpentis, etc.)  

I'm currently painting away at my army.  I'll try to take a few photos and stick them in the gallery (I'm making myself use the forum as much as possible, to try and be an active participant!)

Enjoy!

Yeah, tried some proxy games... pretty frail to be honest.  You just have to make sure that you can survive a hit, but then destroy the key units in your next turn.  Executioner mortal wounds are great, but the Blackguard throw out an obscene amount of rending hits.

[Kaleun]

On 12.12.2017 at 6:52 AM, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Hello.  Torn between two setups here - with both focusing on Blackguard > Executioners because of effective range and rerolls + rending.

List 1 focuses on mobility and double Black Dragon (Order Serpentis Ally):

Allegiance: Darkling Covens
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Allies
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
30 x Darkshards (300)
10 x Executioners (180)
30 x Black Guard (430)
Thrall Warhost (180)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 320 / 400
Wounds: 123

This lets you decide on first turn, or to allow the enemy to go, with a 2-drop list.   The Darkshards can Run + shoot with the Decanter 1st turn to get some shots into the squishies, moving the sorceress up (protected) so that she's positioned for Word of Pain next turn, popping Shadowshroud Ring for sniping protection, and your Executioners/Blackguard positioned and ready for your Battalion bonus actions.  Ideally, I'd want to go 2nd, to hinge on the potential double turn, and denying them the chance to get a double turn.  The benefit of this list is having 2 Black Dragons that are mobile Behemoths that have anti-horde shooting attacks that deal mortal wounds, and are great for flying in and cutting through the chaff, or biting down a backline hero.

List 2 focuses on more foot troops and using Hydra as a durable ally for objectives/flank support as needed, and a Balewind Vortex:

Allegiance: Darkling Covens
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Darkling Sword
- Trait: Impossibly Swift 
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos 
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact: Shadowshroud Ring 
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
30 x Darkshards (300)
30 x Executioners (480)
10 x Black Guard (160)
War Hydra (200)
Thrall Warhost (180)
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

This lets you place your Sorceress on the Balewind, and opens up a long-range to debuff an enemy unit with -1 to hit, use of Decanter of Egos for a 1st turn run + shooting of the Darkshards, and your Bleakswords up the field as well.  Focus is on the Executioners and Darkshards here.

I'm leaning more towards list 1 for a few reasons:
- 2 dragons are mobile, and the rerollable save on the Dreadlord on Black Dragon is very nice with Mystic Shield.
- Blackguards with reroll 1's to hit/wound (Command Ability) has a higher avg output than Executioners, mostly due to the 2" vs 1" reach
 

I would also suggest List 1. However List 2 might be surprisingly good versus elite enemies with higher save stats because of the Word of Pain debuff and the big unit of Executioners.

Mobility is great in certain Scenarios.

 

For me a double SoBD looks also viable:

Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Impossibly Swift
- Witch Rod
- Artefact : Decanter of Egos
Sorceress (80)
- Artefact : Anklet of Epiphany
Sorceress On Black Dragon (300)
- Witch Rod

Units
30 x Black Guard (430)
10 x Executioners (180)
20 x Darkshards (200)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)

Battalions
Thrall Warhost (180)

Scenery
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 1970 / 2000

[Kaleun]

I have to add: We should discuss the Dreadlord on Black Dragon vs. the Drakespawn Knights. I have prepared a table with the expected damage potential of these units.

	Comparison
unit	Dreadlord on Black Dragon		10xDrakespawn Knights
	lance	charge	fight	charge
Point cost	320		320
movement	14"		10"
wounds	14		20
damage (rend -2)	4,375	4,375	0	0
damage (rend -1)	5,2668	6,5736	0	0
damage (no rend)	0	0	9,9	15,312
sum (damage)	9,6418	10,9486	9,9	15,312

 

We can now see that the Drakespawn dish out higher damage while charging but lack the rend of their weapons. However we shouldnt Forget that the Dreadlord has a better save and is faster with the fly keyword and 14 inches of movement. The drakespawn Knights have 6 more wounds compared to the lord.

You might want to use the Dreadlord vs. more elite armies where you need the rend and the Drakespawn Knights against targets with a lot of wounds but a crappy save.

 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

16 hours ago, Kaleun said:

I have to add: We should discuss the Dreadlord on Black Dragon vs. the Drakespawn Knights. I have prepared a table with the expected damage potential of these units.

	Comparison
unit	Dreadlord on Black Dragon		10xDrakespawn Knights
	lance	charge	fight	charge
Point cost	320		320
movement	14"		10"
wounds	14		20
damage (rend -2)	4,375	4,375	0	0
damage (rend -1)	5,2668	6,5736	0	0
damage (no rend)	0	0	9,9	15,312
sum (damage)	9,6418	10,9486	9,9	15,312

 

We can now see that the Drakespawn dish out higher damage while charging but lack the rend of their weapons. However we shouldnt Forget that the Dreadlord has a better save and is faster with the fly keyword and 14 inches of movement. The drakespawn Knights have 6 more wounds compared to the lord.

You might want to use the Dreadlord vs. more elite armies where you need the rend and the Drakespawn Knights against targets with a lot of wounds but a crappy save.

 

The Dreadlord has a better save (reroll ALL failed wound rolls, so modifiers wouldn't affect it), and -2 to -1 rend is HUGE.  

[Kaleun]

9 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

The Dreadlord has a better save (reroll ALL failed wound rolls, so modifiers wouldn't affect it), and -2 to -1 rend is HUGE.  

The dreadlord has indeed a better save. The allied Dreadlord cant be your General. So you wont be able to reroll all wound rolls (via command ability because an allied model cant be your general)

Especially the rend -2 is great (and also the SoBD has it)! You might want to use your Dreadlord on Dragon against elite armies.

The way I see it the Drakespawn Knights can cause nearly 50% more damage then the Dreadlord (before saves). So they are great against chaff units and such.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

36 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

The dreadlord has indeed a better save. The allied Dreadlord cant be your General. So you wont be able to reroll all wound rolls (via command ability because an allied model cant be your general)

Especially the rend -2 is great (and also the SoBD has it)! You might want to use your Dreadlord on Dragon against elite armies.

The way I see it the Drakespawn Knights can cause nearly 50% more damage then the Dreadlord (before saves). So they are great against chaff units and such.

Right, but since we're Darkling Covens, I don't care about him being a general or not, since the run + charge ability is oh so strong.

[Redbaron]

It's also the case (I think, and may be wrong about this) but the Dreadlord is a single base so you get full 'impact' if he moves into contact. The drake spawn knights unit has ten riders, and the comparison assumes that all of them will pile in and contact an enemy. It might be that practically achieving this is far harder, gets split between enemy units, can't all get in range, etc.