Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Keldaur]

20 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

@Scythian what size base did you use for the medusae?  I can't tell from the pictures in the book if it is a 50 or 60mm.  It definitely isn't the 40mm that came with the blood coven box...

 

The cauldron still comes with a 40mm base. The pictures in the book show to be different, but at the end, i see no reason to mount her specifically on a 50 or 65 if GW does not specify it properly.

[zedatkinszed]

12 minutes ago, Keldaur said:

The cauldron still comes with a 40mm base. The pictures in the book show to be different, but at the end, i see no reason to mount her specifically on a 50 or 65 if GW does not specify it properly.

On the GW site it says it comes on a "120mm Oval base"  _{(Sorry I misread that comment)}

The medusa in the pix on teh GW site looks like she's on a 40mm. But yeah the book looks different.

[Keldaur]

1 minute ago, zedatkinszed said:

On the GW site it says it comes on a "120mm Oval base"

We are talking about the one in foot.

comes as 95 components, and is supplied with a Citadel 120mm Oval base, a Citadel 40mm Round base and a Citadel 25mm Round base.

[Kaleun]

57 minutes ago, Keldaur said:

Wound allocation goes in the final step of attacking, this means after all saves have been done. Fanatical faith goes after the wounds had been allocated. To speak it clearly, it is hit to roll, hit to wound, armor saves, check/roll damage, allocate wounds ---- > Fanatical Faith and Iron heart of khaine kicks in. By RAW it means that you can only allocate 3 wounds, and then you roll the Fanatical Faith over those allocated wounds. Afterwards, even if you saved some of those wounds by fanatical faith, the opponent won't be able to allocate anymore wounds that turn.

The difference can be massive, since you can potentially stop many wounds from going in each turn. A quick example:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Hag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples 
- Artefact: Thousand and One Dark Blessings 
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor

Battleline
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 39
 

This can give Blessing of Khaine to Morathi, so she would have the 5++ rerollable for the 3 wounds that are allocated, meaning an average of 1.33 wounds per turn.

Rules sources:

Fanatical faith: Roll a dice each time a wound or mortal wound is allocated to a friendly DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE model. On a 6+ the wound is negated

The Iron Heart of Khaine :Morathi, High Oracle of Khaine cannot be healed, but no more than 3 wounds can be allocated to her in any one turn. Any additional wounds and/or mortal wounds allocated to her in the same turn are negated and have no effect

INFLICTING DAMAGE After all of the attacks made by a unit have been carried out, the player commanding the target unit allocates any wounds that are inflicted to models from the unit as they see fit(the models do not have to be within range or visible to an attacking unit).When inflicting damage, if you allocate a wound to a model, you must keep on allocating wounds to that model until either it is slain, or no more wounds remain to be allocated.

That does also look very good! Is the list competitive [versus Stormcast ;)]?

With 230 Euros it would be a pretty cheap investment.

[Twitch of Izalith]

Has GW clarified the wound allocation mechanic for The Iron Heart of Khaine yet? I understood it as rules as written as @Keldaur described but I think a lot of people are playing it that you can allocate as many as you want but she can't actually take more than 3.

I was shouting at them in the Twitch chat during the first game on WHTV because Martin Morran ALLOCATED more than 3 wounds in a turn but they kept rolling dice until she had TAKEN 3 wounds. I know the WHTV guys are not exactly the best source for top level gameplay but its quite an important point. I will send it in to the FAQ so I hope you guys are doing the same.

If it works RAW then Morathi will get in a lot of my lists. If not then I doubt she will because its actually really easy to put 3 wounds on her - you don't even need to use a particularly strong unit to do it.

[Keldaur]

Competitiveness at 1000 points is really weird and varies a lot through match ups and missions tbh, but I don't see any stuff that stormcasts could throw at you that you could not handle at that point level. Lord celestant on dracoth, fulminators, a big block of liberators, or a shooty list, all of them will have a very hard time killing morathi and withstanding her pain.

Morathi is a decent sniper in mage form and disgusting in close combat if you get mindrazor up paired with witchbrew.

 

[DantePQ]

@Twitch of Izalith there is no way for it work as written as it would be flat out broken as she can easily have 2+ save and 5++FF(with possible re rolls) and - 1 to hit (possible - 2 with Protectors) along with 36 spell range. It's clearly as it was played in WHTV also similar rule was quickly FAQed regarding Nurgle BT. 

Also she even with her ability FAQed she will be nightmare for armies like Murderhost, Fyreslayers or Legions of Nagash who doesn't have reliable long distance threats. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

40 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

@Twitch of Izalith there is no way for it work as written as it would be flat out broken as she can easily have 2+ save and 5++FF(with possible re rolls) and - 1 to hit (possible - 2 with Protectors) along with 36 spell range. It's clearly as it was played in WHTV also similar rule was quickly FAQed regarding Nurgle BT. 

Yeah I agree that is probably what was intended and my group has agreed we will play that way but that's not what it says in the rules!

@Keldaur yeah I think Morathi would be really strong in a 1000 point list - whatever the IHoK rules get confirmed as! I'll hopefully get some paint on her this week.

 

 

[BURF1]

1 hour ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Has GW clarified the wound allocation mechanic for The Iron Heart of Khaine yet? I understood it as rules as written as @Keldaur described but I think a lot of people are playing it that you can allocate as many as you want but she can't actually take more than 3.

I was shouting at them in the Twitch chat during the first game on WHTV because Martin Morran ALLOCATED more than 3 wounds in a turn but they kept rolling dice until she had TAKEN 3 wounds. I know the WHTV guys are not exactly the best source for top level gameplay but its quite an important point. I will send it in to the FAQ so I hope you guys are doing the same.

If it works RAW then Morathi will get in a lot of my lists. If not then I doubt she will because its actually really easy to put 3 wounds on her - you don't even need to use a particularly strong unit to do it.

Morathi in HaggNarr with Blessing of khaine takes an average of slightly more than 1 wound per turn...if they even manage to allocate 3 wounds.

[Richelieu]

12 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

Morathi in HaggNarr with Blessing of khaine takes an average of slightly more than 1 wound per turn...if they even manage to allocate 3 wounds.

Yeah, it's gross and I love it!  I also think people will generally underestimate the amount of force required to remove some DoK targets.  For example, Hag Queen on foot is a standard 5 wound, 5+ 6++ squishy buffing hero.  But next to a Hagg Nar cauldron (where she'll invariably be stationed) she is a 5 wound, 4+, 5++ hero that is much more difficult to remove.

[DantePQ]

That's why I prefer HaggNar over Kheliborn (as for now), they become quite hard to kill near Cauldron and Cauldron itself is tough to kill, also I didn't have a problem with keeping Morathi alive, I've played 5 games and she didn't die once (but was usually reduced to 2-4 wounds). Sure there is drawback of having your most useful stuff in 7'' and it somehow limits your mobility but it's just extra option to protect your most important stuff (especially when going second). 

Clown-Car will hate this army as both Temples are just amazing against it. 

[Scythian]

4 hours ago, Richelieu said:

@Scythian what size base did you use for the medusae?  I can't tell from the pictures in the book if it is a 50 or 60mm.  It definitely isn't the 40mm that came with the blood coven box...

 

I’m just using 50mm. 

[Richelieu]

42 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

That's why I prefer HaggNar over Kheliborn (as for now), they become quite hard to kill near Cauldron and Cauldron itself is tough to kill, also I didn't have a problem with keeping Morathi alive, I've played 5 games and she didn't die once (but was usually reduced to 2-4 wounds). Sure there is drawback of having your most useful stuff in 7'' and it somehow limits your mobility but it's just extra option to protect your most important stuff (especially when going second).

I think the Khailebron will perhaps be more fun to play and provide opportunities for a skilled player to punish opponents' poor model placement, but Hagg Nar will be more forgiving and have fewer tough matchups. 

[DantePQ]

Yep I agree, I will try both and I think in competitive play it will be very meta dependant. So far I've played Khailebron mostly as it gives be ability to pressure opponent early on and even before battle starts. I loved it with my Dreadwood, but Dreadwood didn't have much flexibility not to alpha strike, with Khailebron you can  also in Khailebron usually you will want to use Morathi more like a big monster alpha strike threat, in HaggNar she will be more support-counter strike option as you can comfortably shield her from much damage. 

HaggNar is more reliable so should be more obvious choice for tournament but on the other hand Khailebron even for ultra-comeptitve tourneys Khailebron ability to alpha strike can be crucial as every opponent should think twice about giving you first turn and it could be exploited and could give you some much needed edge. 

[BURF1]

4 hours ago, Richelieu said:

I think the Khailebron will perhaps be more fun to play and provide opportunities for a skilled player to punish opponents' poor model placement, but Hagg Nar will be more forgiving and have fewer tough matchups. 

I'm gonna be starting out Khailebron just because I love the 'Suddenly Morathi!' mirrordance meme build so, so much. I was heartbroken when GHB2 basically killed the Suddenly Stardrake! build.

[Kaleun]

7 hours ago, Keldaur said:

Competitiveness at 1000 points is really weird and varies a lot through match ups and missions tbh, but I don't see any stuff that stormcasts could throw at you that you could not handle at that point level. Lord celestant on dracoth, fulminators, a big block of liberators, or a shooty list, all of them will have a very hard time killing morathi and withstanding her pain.

Morathi is a decent sniper in mage form and disgusting in close combat if you get mindrazor up paired with witchbrew.

 

thats right. On 1000 points at a competitive level there are different strong setups and compositions. Nevertheless I am a fan of slow army building to learn everything and get things painted. Gosh that Battletome is well done!

 

[Scythian]

Just finished the brown on my pole arms for the she-snakes. Chugging along piece by piece. 

[Kaleun]

looks awesome!

[Scythian]

Kaleun, I can’t wait to field this army in a megabattle or team game. 

[Kaleun]

@Scythian

You will most certainly be the King of Snakes!

Sarah Kerrigan

Morathi

 

-> Has somebody recognized the similarities?? ;-)

[Scythian]

Lolol, my buddy thinks I’m nuts trying to get these ready for Adepticon. I can’t believe the time I spent this past weekend making this army come to life. 

[Kaleun]

You can make it!

Keep us in check about the progress.

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, Scythian said:

Kaleun, I can’t wait to field this army in a megabattle or team game. 

I actually think that army could be strong.  Is it 3 units of 20 Blood sisters and 4 Medusae?  

Definitely not optimized (for competitiveness at least, flavor is at maximum!), but I think the sheer blunt force will be too much for some opponents.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

9 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

I actually think that army could be strong.  Is it 3 units of 20 Blood sisters and 4 Medusae?  

Definitely not optimized (for competitiveness at least, flavor is at maximum!), but I think the sheer blunt force will be too much for some opponents.

Yup.  I mean, I'd personally want Catechism of Murder on them, since THAT many attacks multiplied would be too much, especially with the Witchbrew and Mindrazor.

I'm very much in love with the Blood Sisters/Stalkers setup, personally.  I'm glad the better temple allows you to add them into the Battalion to fulfill battleline requirements easier.

[Richelieu]

Doing some theoryhammer and thought of another way you can alpha strike. 

Shadowhammer Compact battalion including a unit of 30 witches.  

It says one of the things you can do is make a normal move.  FAQ explicitly states you can run as part of a normal move. 

Buff your witches six ways from Sunday.  Run them in your hero phase using the battalion, rerolling ones.  Run them in your move phase, rerolling ones.  Charge.  You would have to make a series of three or more consecutive bad rolls to fail.