BURF1 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, DantePQ said: It's not so obvious when your opponent knows what he's doing also premise was that Medusa that will be redeployed was the one casting Mirror Dance. Also Changehost has 27" unbid range and that would greatly limit where you want Morathi placed. Not really, like I said, mindrazor is great on morathi but not mandatory and the 27" unbind range is largely irrelevant considering you can cast from 24" away from 17" away and still end up with a 3" charge. I've noticed that a lot of your critiques come from assuming that you're really bad at the game and your opponent is perfect at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurious Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I took the following the other night against a changehost. The list was thrown together on the spot hence the 50 points under, with a view of just seeing how stuff played. Allegiance: Order Temple: Hag NarBloodwrack Shrine (220)- Lore of Shadows: Steed of ShadowsHag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300)- General- Trait: Devoted Desciples - Artefact: Iron Circlet - Prayer: Blessing of KhaineMorathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor30 x Witch Aelves (270)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers10 x Blood Sisters (280)5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)Total: 1950 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 112 I was very impressed with the Daughters performance. We played star strike and despite lossing most of the 30 witch elves to a gaunt summoner T1 it was neck and neck right up to T5 and came down to who won priority. The list is extremely resilient as a whole and with rerollable 5++ keeping the 10 snakes in good fighting order against some heave mw output. The snakes themselves have huge dmg potential, even with mindrazor being ineffective vs the host due to naturally low saves but bravery 10 pumping out 24 plus attacks a combat at 3/3 plus mortal output chewed through horrors and splits. The cauldren is a beast and very competitively priced considering the survivabikty, damage output and army utility it brings. I was very impressed with the shrine as well, for 220 points it has solid anti horde and a nice mw radiate. Heart renders do what they say on the tin, unless you are like me and whiff any shooting with a profile of 3/3 Morathis a total beast, no two ways about, she is a complete steal for 480. Overall I was extremely impressed with the army. It has excellent pressence in all phases of the game and a serious damage output all while being a lot more resilient than first imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 23 minutes ago, BURF1 said: Not really, like I said, mindrazor is great on morathi but not mandatory and the 27" unbind range is largely irrelevant considering you can cast from 24" away from 17" away and still end up with a 3" charge. I've noticed that a lot of your critiques come from assuming that you're really bad at the game and your opponent is perfect at it. Nope it's not - as I said my response was to the original post when it was said that mirror dance is cast from shrine that was teleported 9“ away from enemy with Khelibron ability. Also I have played Dreadwood alpha strike for several months in very competitive environment with pretty good results and know that deepstriking two heavy unis (Alarielle and Scythes Hunter with wounds re rolls from CA) has hard time against good opponents for several reasons (well placed chaff above mainly) and Morathi I believe would not fair better then those two and will be stucked against chaff. Also there is objective bunkering which such list will save problems with. But I guess we will see I could be very wrong(and I will be happy to be wrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedatkinszed Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Here's my Cauldron Guard + Temple Nest + Morathi list. It might be risky without a Cauldron but this is the best way I can see (so far) to get Morathi into a 3 drop list: Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine Temple: Khailebron Leaders: Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480) Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor Bloodwrack Medusa (140) General Command Trait : Mistress of Illusion Artefact : The Mirror Glaive Lore of Shadows : Mirror Dance Hag Queen Units: 10 x Khinerai Lifetakers 5 x Khinerai Lifetakers 20 x Witch Aelves 10 x Witch Aelves 5 x Blood Sisters 5 x Blood Sisters 5 x Blood Stalkers 5 x Blood Stalkers Battalions: Cauldron Guard Temple Nest Total: 2000 pts Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 3/6 Battlelines: 4 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4 Wounds: 102 Drops: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Khailebron Temple Nest is VERY fun. The Glaives with 2" reach, Mindrazor and Catechism of Murder is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yawn Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I'm having trouble deciding between a core consisting of 30 SoS & 2 x 10 Witches, or 30 Witches & 2 x 10 SoS. 2" range, 6"pile in and larger massive unit discount make the SoS seem better in the 30 man units, however I'm then not able to run the very nice Slaughter Troupe battalion. Decisions decisions Do we have some kind of consensus regarding sacrificial knives vs bladed bucklers? For me sac knives seem the superior option on SoS due to their fewer maximum attacks, while bladed bucklers may have some use on Witch Aelves due to them being able to get 3 attacks anyway. Even then I still kinda want the 4 attacks each though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I think I will run one 10 of Sisters with Bucklers to bunker in objective when needed, especially in HaggNar they are quite good with 4+ save in Melee and 5++ near Cauldron/General. Not a big fan of Bucklers on witches though, as they need hero nearby all time otherwise they are pretty bad. That's why I prefer SoS as they always have 3A no matter what plus pile in is amazing and extra range but they are first thing I swap for WE when I need some points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 7 hours ago, zedatkinszed said: Here's my Cauldron Guard + Temple Nest + Morathi list. It might be risky without a Cauldron but this is the best way I can see (so far) to get Morathi into a 3 drop list: Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine Temple: Khailebron Leaders: Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480) Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor Bloodwrack Medusa (140) General Command Trait : Mistress of Illusion Artefact : The Mirror Glaive Lore of Shadows : Mirror Dance Hag Queen Units: 10 x Khinerai Lifetakers 5 x Khinerai Lifetakers 20 x Witch Aelves 10 x Witch Aelves 5 x Blood Sisters 5 x Blood Sisters 5 x Blood Stalkers 5 x Blood Stalkers Battalions: Cauldron Guard Temple Nest Total: 2000 pts Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 3/6 Battlelines: 4 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4 Wounds: 102 Drops: 3 Had you seen that temples increases the size of the battalions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedatkinszed Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, Keldaur said: Had you seen that temples increases the size of the battalions ? The Kahilebron increase for Temple nest is optional. I may take 2 more melusai units but don't have to. Also, in this case, it's a space issue. There's no way to have Morathi and a then these 2 battalions with anything extra, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I didn't mean they weren't optional, but that they give you more room to juggle around for the 3 drops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Am i the only one who see the khinerai as meh ? 80 pts for 5 wound and bad resilience, and 5 attacks dmg 1 doesn't seems that good too me. It's cool to have lot of powerful special rules, but it seem useless if the unit die as soon as someone watch it, and do a very little amount of damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch of Izalith Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, ledha said: Am i the only one who see the khinerai as meh ? 80 pts for 5 wound and bad resilience, and 5 attacks dmg 1 doesn't seems that good too me. It's cool to have lot of powerful special rules, but it seem useless if the unit die as soon as someone watch it, and do a very little amount of damage There's lots of options with them tactically. Even if you just have a couple of units of 5 flying around for Starstrike battleplan. My biggest dissapointment is that its the heartrenders thats included in the slaughtertroupe. Draichi Ganeth lifetakers in a Slaughtertroupe would be great. Fire and flight looks really useful. Its hard to tell until I get a few games under my belt. Got 4 boxes on the way so will build 10 of each and see how they go. Should get my first game on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, ledha said: Am i the only one who see the khinerai as meh ? 80 pts for 5 wound and bad resilience, and 5 attacks dmg 1 doesn't seems that good too me. It's cool to have lot of powerful special rules, but it seem useless if the unit die as soon as someone watch it, and do a very little amount of damage I think the heartrenders are very strong with being able to get -2 rend on both of their attacks for potential 10dmg at a high quality for only 80pts. I would wait until round 3 for reliability with the hit/charge rolls, but that's just me. They're not build for resilience. Lifetakers seem like ****** tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 This is a list I really would like to try:Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine- Temple: KhailebronBloodwrack Shrine (220)- General- Trait: Mistress of Illusion - Artefact: Shadow Stone - Lore of Shadows: Mirror DanceBloodwrack Medusa (140)- Artefact: Rune of Ulgu - Lore of Shadows: Steed of Shadows -Lore of Shadows: Shroud of DespairMorathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor20 x Blood Sisters (480)5 x Blood Sisters (140)5 x Blood Sisters (140)5 x Blood Stalkers (160)5 x Blood Stalkers (160)Temple Nest (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 105 2 drop list for the Khailebron Temple Nest + Morathi. You miss out on the Khaine prayers and the cauldron, BUT you can pull off the Morathi-Mistress of Illusion-Mirror Dance trick. Morathi with Mindrazor (and Catechism of Murder and witch brew though) did a ton of damage. More of a fluffy list but would be very fun, with some shooting from Blood Stalkers, but relies mostly on getting Morathi downfield and in their face, but has 40 Melusai for support. Without the Cauldron and Prayers, it's a tad lacking, but I feel more than 2 drops is rather unfavorable imo.Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine- Temple: KhailebronBloodwrack Shrine (220)- General- Trait: Mistress of Illusion - Artefact: Shadow Stone - Lore of Shadows: Mirror DanceBloodwrack Medusa (140)- Lore of Shadows: Steed of ShadowsMorathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)- Lore of Shadows: MindrazorHag Queen (60)- Artefact: Iron Circlet - Prayer: Catechsim of Murder10 x Blood Sisters (280)10 x Blood Sisters (280)5 x Blood Sisters (140)5 x Blood Stalkers (160)5 x Blood Stalkers (160)Temple Nest (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 100 Same as above, but 3 drops and would have Hag Queen prayer/witchbrew support to turn either the Blood Sisters or Morathi into a murder machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 Heartrenders produce 2,2 wounds with rend -2 alphastrike and later with -1. We wont snipe characters with that. Even 10 (hard to place) will put out 4,4 wounds before saves. I see them more as objective grabbers and this can be done by the lifetakers also. prefer the look of the Heartrenders though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kaleun said: 5 Heartrenders produce 2,2 wounds with rend -2 alphastrike and later with -1. We wont snipe characters with that. Even 10 (hard to place) will put out 4,4 wounds before saves. I see them more as objective grabbers and this can be done by the lifetakers also. prefer the look of the Heartrenders though. That's just with the shooting part. You can then potentially fly 6" for free and go for a 3" charge with another -1 rend on the Javelins and a better melee profile. Blood rites amplifies this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said: That's just with the shooting part. You can then potentially fly 6" for free and go for a 3" charge with another -2 rend on the Javelins and a better melee profile. Blood rites amplifies this. right. We get 1,25 additional hits in close combat before saves (rend -1) from 5 Heartrenders. [a bit more because I have just seen that the Shryke gets +1 to hit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Just now, Kaleun said: right. We get 1,25 additional hits in close combat before saves (rend -1) from 5 Heartrenders. [a bit more because I have just seen that the Shryke gets +1 to hit] I was just surprised at the output of 20 Blood Sisters with Mindrazor, Catechism of Murder, Blood Rites, and Witch Brew. The 2" reach on the Glaives and the Crystal Touch is just icing on the cake. 60 -2 rend, 2dmg attacks at the 3+/3+ with reroll 1s, reroll failed wounds is nuts, and more output than Morathi herself buffed up for the same cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 ok guys here is the true damage of the Heartrenders (before saves): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Just now, Kaleun said: ok guys here is the true damage of the Heartrenders (before saves): This is why I'd take 10 into a hero haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said: This is why I'd take 10 into a hero haha Correct, it's like flipping a coin, but at least you have the odds to kill a hero. I am baffled that people are complaining that an 80 point deep striking shooty unit can't one-shot a hero easily. Here i am thinking how to juggle this list to get the second heartrender unit to be a 10 women unit... Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine- Temple: Draichi GanethLeadersHag Queen (60)- Prayer: Catechsim of MurderSlaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)- General- Trait: Terrifying Beauty - Artefact: The Darksword - Prayer: Blessing of KhaineBloodwrack Medusa (140)- Artefact: Shadow Stone - Lore of Shadows: MindrazorBattleline30 x Sisters Of Slaughter (300)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives30 x Sisters Of Slaughter (300)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives30 x Witch Aelves (270)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives30 x Witch Aelves (270)- Pairs of Sacrificial KnivesUnits10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (160)5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)BattalionsSlaughter Troupe (80)Total: 1990 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 https://malignportents.com/story/the-scent/ looks like Morathi will have her Cult of Pleasures once more! Quote ‘And we have the Inhilus, and the favour of the Dark Prince,’ said Reshevious. ‘An alliance, you seek then? Why? What do you gain by this? And why greet us with blades if you desire our aid?’ ‘My reasons are my own,’ replied the queen. ‘As to the blades? I did not need all of you…’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Kaleun said: https://malignportents.com/story/the-scent/ looks like Morathi will have her Cult of Pleasures once more! Erhm... that was not Morathi imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch of Izalith Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Keldaur said: Erhm... that was not Morathi imo. Agreed - Queen as in Darkoath Warqueen looks more likely. Good to see some narrative about the Slaaneshi forces though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgecoc Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said: Agreed - Queen as in Darkoath Warqueen looks more likely. Good to see some narrative about the Slaaneshi forces though I just want that chariot as a model when Slaanesh eventually gets new models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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