Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[kozokus]

It pains me to see that, but 2017 has been hard for the bloodbound part of Khorne. I can't see them going through a tournament and claim the victory
The Secrator's faq was kinda expected, but the +20 on the Aspiring Deathbringer was surprising and the +40 on the Reapers is crushing. Yet, Skullcrushers enjoy a nice discount but nothing significant.

 

[Nico]

"+40 on the Reapers is crushing. " How on Earth were they 140 for 15 wounds worth of 3 wound models with a 4+ save before - this must have been a mistake. They are still pretty cheap as they are: Phoenix Guard are 160 for 10 wounds. Brutes are 180 for 15 wounds - they don't do mortal wounds or wounds on death and have poor movement and bravery.

[Iain]

Probably should have posted in this topic instead of new one but please take a look Khornate brothers and sisters!

 

[kozokus]

I admit i am a little bit dishonest here^_^'

Yet this was a strengh that we never saw in action to its best.

Compared to Thundertusks and Skyfires that enjoyed the same treatment, i never heard someone complain about them as much (BTW, Skyfires should propably enjoy a +20-40 tax again).

Statwise, indeed they surpass a lot of comparable units. They still have their own deamons, no rend hurts, event with the addition of mortal wounds, big bases with no acess to 2" range weapons condemn them to stay in 5-man units (and they occasionnaly dammage themselfs). And unlike Brutes and Phoenix guards, they are not battlelines. which means they enter a wider circle of competition.

Pre 2017, they more-or-less fighted in the same field as the bloodletters with some clear distinctions : beeing mortal opened acces to some command abilities but they didn't have the same juicy bataillon, even if goretide™ was a thing. They also where fare more tankier and less killy.

Now, they can't fit in any bataillon that can compare to murderhost and have to rely on their 5" movement. Even worse, they now have to compare with Bloodwarriors which they surpassed before in every aspect. Now they are less tanky and offers quite similar dammage outputs point-per-points, still keeping their advantage of MW-dealer compared to a mass of 3+/4+/0/1 attacks. On the side of buffs, Warriors makes a much better use of +1A and have  an easier time to connect with all their attacks due to small bases. One can argue that Frenzy is a perfect buff for Reapers but you are relying on a 4+ roll that would be better on bloodletters.

The problem with Khorne is that a lot of entry of the battletome are more or less the same unit with a different ratio of killyness/tankiness/hordness. Before 2017, you had a good reason to take them, now the question is why do you want a "4+to-hit-unit" them over 20letters/30reavers/10warriors/5mongers/2Korgoraths.

[Killax]

3 hours ago, kozokus said:

It pains me to see that, but 2017 has been hard for the bloodbound part of Khorne. I can't see them going through a tournament and claim the victory
The Secrator's faq was kinda expected, but the +20 on the Aspiring Deathbringer was surprising and the +40 on the Reapers is crushing. Yet, Skullcrushers enjoy a nice discount but nothing significant.

 

Well dont limit yourself to Bloodbound!

 Frankly speaking since Blades of Khorne there allready was no real reason to limit yourself to either because we have Artefacts that support both at the same time. Im on holiday but will dive in another tactica soon. Lots of subjects in this topic are akin to that of gh2016 but gh2017 changed the awnser. Such as Skullreapers vs Wrathmongers and which to take first while building a list

The key to new Khorne succes is to optimize the mix and grab the advantages, which indeed has drastically decreased our Battalion choices but massively opened up more unit choices. So much that I feel that for 2K any Bloodthirster should be considered, they all recieved a drastic point reduction. Bloodletters follow that same patron and Bloodbound got better reasons to run Bloodreavers in conjunction with Chaos Shrines, Skullcrusher support units often are better as Battalions and Khorgoraths to me have become a mandatory single inclusion. Its just ideal to have as support or for objective holding.

Other meta choices will be covered aswell. Overall I feel BoK became stronger if you use the cost reductions to your advantage.

[RuneBrush]

8 hours ago, Keldaur said:

I was wondering what you meant by increased their cost, and now i checked the warscroll builder. Ouch.

Also, silly question. What constitutes a spell for stuff like the brazen rune ? Anything (like blood players) or just spells spells.

Not a silly question at all and did raise it's head over the weekend for me.  Myself and my opponent felt it means any damage that is caused where the source was something cast - so arcane bolt is an easy one, but also something that "marks a unit" to take extra damage, that extra damage's source was a cast spell.  It does nothing to damage caused from an ability or prayer, just something that has a casting value.

[RuneBrush]

4 minutes ago, Killax said:

Well dont limit yourself to Bloodbound!

 Frankly speaking since Blades of Khorne there allready was no real reason to limit yourself to either because we have Artefacts that support both at the same time. Im on holiday but will dive in another tactica soon. Lots of subjects in this topic are akin to that of gh2016 but gh2017 changed the awnser. Such as Skullreapers vs Wrathmongers and which to take first while building a list

The key to new Khorne succes is to optimize the mix and grab the advantages, which indeed has drastically decreased our Battalion choices but massively opened up more unit choices. So much that I feel that for 2K any Bloodthirster should be considered, they all recieved a drastic point reduction. Bloodletters follow that same patron and Bloodbound got better reasons to run Bloodreavers in conjunction with Chaos Shrines, Skullcrusher support units often are better as Battalions and Khorgoraths to me have become a mandatory single inclusion. Its just ideal to have as support or for objective holding.

Other meta choices will be covered aswell. Overall I feel BoK became stronger if you use the cost reductions to your advantage.

I said when BoK came out, I'm not entirely sure the synergy between daemon, bloodbound and slaves is that great.  You've still got quite a few warscroll abilities that only effect one group of Khorne followers.  I do think mixing is one way to make a slightly more competitive army but feel that a "pure" sub-faction Khorne army is going to be either Gore Pilgrims, Brass Stampede or Murderhost.  Look forward to your views in a tactica - might even tempt me to paint up my Bloodthirster!

[gertat]

Some advice on this list?

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
- General
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100) - Killing frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100) - Killing frenzy
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (180)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400

Thx gertat

[Killax]

Solid gertart, maby drop a Khorgorath to push the Bloodreavers to 30. 

Perhaps even better here, consider Skaarac over the Bloodthirster. He too became indirectly better due to Khorgorath cost decrease.

[jkav86]

Hey gertart, just a pity there is just one Khorgorath model. I'd love to see more poses and stuff for these guys without having to model them myself.

Also, looking forward to your tactica Killax, should be informative!

[gertat]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Solid gertart, maby drop a Khorgorath to push the Bloodreavers to 30. 

Perhaps even better here, consider Skaarac over the Bloodthirster. He too became indirectly better due to Khorgorath cost decrease.

Something like this perhaps

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Skaarac the Bloodborn (500)
- General
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (180)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

What do you guys think about running Khorgoraths as a unit or as single units to max out the -1 to bravery??

There is a Minus bravery list that I have to think about  

 

 

[Tubs]

2000 point Tourney coming up next week bit limited by Bloodletter numbers but this is what I'm looking at.

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Skullmaster, Herald of Khorne (100)
- Artefact: Mark of the slayer  
Bloodmaster, Herald of Khorne (80)
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown  
Bloodsecrator (120)
- General
- Trait: Berzerker Lord  
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

Battalions
Murderhost (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Had good success with a similar list a couple months back pre ghb 2017. Thoughts?

 

[Darksteve]

5 hours ago, Tubs said:

2000 point Tourney coming up next week bit limited by Bloodletter numbers but this is what I'm looking at.

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Skullmaster, Herald of Khorne (100)
- Artefact: Mark of the slayer  
Bloodmaster, Herald of Khorne (80)
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown  
Bloodsecrator (120)
- General
- Trait: Berzerker Lord  
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

Battalions
Murderhost (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Had good success with a similar list a couple months back pre ghb 2017. Thoughts?

 

I'm not sure that murderhost is worth the price you're paying for it here. You are essentially paying 180 for murderhost because it prevents you from stacking up the bloodletters. Arguably, you could say you were paying 260 because I don't like herald as a leader choice if I don't have to take him. I think merging the bloodletters and adding some bloodwarriors, reavers, and another priest with Gore Pilgrims might suit you better. At that point you could even look at a bloodthirster General which does really well with Killing Frenzy stacked bloodletter bombs. 

Don't get me wrong though if this is how you want to play and you're comfortable then go for it. I just feel that murderhost isn't worth what you are giving up here.

[Tubs]

9 minutes ago, Darksteve said:

I'm not sure that murderhost is worth the price you're paying for it here. You are essentially paying 180 for murderhost because it prevents you from stacking up the bloodletters. Arguably, you could say you were paying 260 because I don't like herald as a leader choice if I don't have to take him. I think merging the bloodletters and adding some bloodwarriors, reavers, and another priest with Gore Pilgrims might suit you better. At that point you could even look at a bloodthirster General which does really well with Killing Frenzy stacked bloodletter bombs. 

Don't get me wrong though if this is how you want to play and you're comfortable then go for it. I just feel that murderhost isn't worth what you are giving up here.

The murderhost is maxed so I gain a 2d6 hero phase movement which is well worth 120 imo. I play a daemon focused army with mortals for support. My biggest issue with mortal khorne is there low mobility.

The state of Scorched earth at the moment lets highly mobile armies win in turn 1

[jazman84]

51 minutes ago, Darksteve said:

I'm not sure that murderhost is worth the price you're paying for it here. You are essentially paying 180 for murderhost because it prevents you from stacking up the bloodletters. Arguably, you could say you were paying 260 because I don't like herald as a leader choice if I don't have to take him. I think merging the bloodletters and adding some bloodwarriors, reavers, and another priest with Gore Pilgrims might suit you better. At that point you could even look at a bloodthirster General which does really well with Killing Frenzy stacked bloodletter bombs. 

Don't get me wrong though if this is how you want to play and you're comfortable then go for it. I just feel that murderhost isn't worth what you are giving up here.

It is worth it because he only needs max units at the START of the battle for the Battalion.  He can then consolidate those 10 man units into 30 man units.

[RuneBrush]

2 hours ago, jazman84 said:

It is worth it because he only needs max units at the START of the battle for the Battalion.  He can then consolidate those 10 man units into 30 man units.

Sorry to steal the jam out of your donut on this, but you can't combine units in any way shape or form (zombies are the only exception).  If the list has 6 units of 10 that's what needs to be deployed on the table.

[Killax]

10 hours ago, gertat said:

Something like this perhaps

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Skaarac the Bloodborn (500)
- General
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (180)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

What do you guys think about running Khorgoraths as a unit or as single units to max out the -1 to bravery??

There is a Minus bravery list that I have to think about  

 

 

Looks cool to me, but I do think more Khorgoraths would do the list more justice, this was in the initial list. At this point consider dropping Slaughterpriests and Gore Pilgrims, thats 380 points, another 4 Khorgoraths and then some to consider upgrading Bloodreavers.

Running Khorgoraths seperate is fine, really fine with Skaarac but with him I would load up on numbers.

9 hours ago, Tubs said:

2000 point Tourney coming up next week bit limited by Bloodletter numbers but this is what I'm looking at.

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Skullmaster, Herald of Khorne (100)
- Artefact: Mark of the slayer  
Bloodmaster, Herald of Khorne (80)
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown  
Bloodsecrator (120)
- General
- Trait: Berzerker Lord  
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

Battalions
Murderhost (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Had good success with a similar list a couple months back pre ghb 2017. Thoughts?

 

I like where this is going but would consider the added flexability gained from not going max on units. 

I feel the Battalion essentially pays for itself when 3 30 blocks of letters are used. Then Id also say that despite the movement bonus it is only within 8" of the Bloodletter Hero and when hes gone so is the effect.

Murderhost is fantastic. But it is fantastic due to what Bloodstokers and Bloodthirsters (WoK) can do for it. At no points 120 points for moving your key units up too much, but key units often contain 30 Bloodletters.

Cheers,

[Louzi]

Any thoughts on a skullreaper bomb (unit of 10)? I will give gore pilgrims a try and with 2 priest you gain a potential +2 to hit. Rly good for letters and skullreapers. Because everybody is playin letterbomb, I was thinking of a skullreaper bomb. Not as fragile against gaunt summoner/plagueclaw as the letters and rly devasting, too. Any thoughts?

[RuneBrush]

2 hours ago, Louzi said:

Any thoughts on a skullreaper bomb (unit of 10)? I will give gore pilgrims a try and with 2 priest you gain a potential +2 to hit. Rly good for letters and skullreapers. Because everybody is playin letterbomb, I was thinking of a skullreaper bomb. Not as fragile against gaunt summoner/plagueclaw as the letters and rly devasting, too. Any thoughts?

It's worth trying to see how you get on.  We tend to run Skullreapers in smaller units to benefit from their abilities to re-roll hits and wounds based on the amount of damage they've inflicted.

[gertat]

This wound be so fun to run (move run and charge almost everything)

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
Bloodthirster Of Insensate Rage (260)
Bloodthirster Of Insensate Rage (260)
Skaarac the Bloodborn (500)

Battleline
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Battalions
Council of Blood (110)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

Think I have to buy Skaarac now

Good times Good times

[Fireymonkeyboy]

59 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

It's worth trying to see how you get on.  We tend to run Skullreapers in smaller units to benefit from their abilities to re-roll hits and wounds based on the amount of damage they've inflicted.

I'd be really curious to see how a big unit did as well.  It's not hard for them to hit a kill count of 10+, and with the 10-strong unit, there will be more of them to take advantage of the re-rolls when they kick in.

FMB

[Louzi]

And dont forget the bloodstoker buff! I ll try it out

[Ollie Grimwood]

You could stick them into a Skulltake for increased standard damage as well. 

[Killax]

4 hours ago, gertat said:

This wound be so fun to run (move run and charge almost everything)

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
Bloodthirster Of Insensate Rage (260)
Bloodthirster Of Insensate Rage (260)
Skaarac the Bloodborn (500)

Battleline
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Battalions
Council of Blood (110)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

Think I have to buy Skaarac now

Good times Good times

Looks great to me! Dont even know if you need the whole Council of Blood but it seems mad fun.

Skaarac is seriously on my radar too, largely also because I want to experiment Battalionless more.

3 hours ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

I'd be really curious to see how a big unit did as well.  It's not hard for them to hit a kill count of 10+, and with the 10-strong unit, there will be more of them to take advantage of the re-rolls when they kick in.

FMB

Love the idea. Have run 5 Skullreapers in front of 5 Wrathmongers before. That tag team is totally legit against anything! More on that soon...

[jazman84]

6 hours ago, Killax said:

Love the idea. Have run 5 Skullreapers in front of 5 Wrathmongers before. That tag team is totally legit against anything! More on that soon...

I've cooled to Skullreapers since the price hike. I'd like to hear more about this tag-team.