Mcthew

So since yesterday's reveals, depression has sunk in. As with many rules changes, there are winners and losers, but there seems to be more losers with the new CAs. Taking that away, the new CAs are really some of the most poorest rules writing yet in the history of AoS, in my opinion. There's not a lot to get excited for, and really for me, I wanted to be. Will I get Dominion? I've put in an interest for it at our local hobby store, but it's now looking unlikely I'll pre-order. I just don't like how the rules for AoS 3.0 are shaping up. All the weaknesses feel more exposed, and more have been inflicted. Some new rules felt unnecessary, and the hyperbole of the being the best ever, is a shocker. Do GW even know their own customer base? Do they even play the game? It makes you feel like they don't. For me, this might be the end of buying GW products. Not a knee-****** reaction, but a reality: I play AoS because my eldest son does. It's something we like doing together on a weekend morning or afternoon. It's something that we can discuss on walks, in the car, wherever, really. AoS 4.0 is unlikely to come out for another 4 years, and by then he'll have likely moved on to other distractions as I did at his age. AoS 3.0 was going to be the last edition I would buy and invest in. It makes no sense to me now to buy Dominion for the models as they will be AoS 3.0 models for AoS 3.0 rules. Likewise for the battletomes and General's Handbooks etc etc. What will that save me a year? Well, I've worked out that this year it would probably save me upwards of £400 minimum to not invest in AoS 3.0. And about £600 for each year thereafter. So my bank manager will be pleased if AoS 3.0 is as bad as the Warhammer Community reveals. But how many other AoS players will leave for other games? Maybe it's a good thing though. GW dominance has created a sense of arrogance. AoS 3.0 might just show players there are better products out there to invest in. And an epic fail might be just what GW needs.

GW have shot themselves not just in the foot here. These are certainly some of the most divisive rules yet (and Khorne players must be weeping right now - there's nothing for them to be excited about; I'd be looking on eBay to see what I could get for my Khorne army right now). For me, the Rally CA is one of the worst GW has ever put out. So how does this work with models with more than 1 wound? Does that mean my Kurnoth Hunter with 5 wounds is not only revived, but all his wounds are healed because my unit commander has effectively said: 'C'mon lad, it's just a flesh wound!' Awful. Slain is slain. It's not 'boss, I've sprained my ankle.' What are GW thinking??? Or, like Unleash Hell, is this is another example of amateur rule writing? Honestly, GW need to save themselves with the next two Warhammer Community articles. They need to get this better, because these are poor rules, not the best rules. By using such hyperbole they are looking foolish (as they've obviously not play-tested this properly). If anyone from GW is reading this, a plea: Shooting rules next (which need to include you can't shoot out of or into combat); and some kind of explanation for the Rally rule. Errata is not enough when you're not getting this right from the beginning for a £125 starter set or £40 core book. These are premium prices. The product so far is less than premium. I was on the fence with Dominion, now I've hopped off it. GW have 2 more articles to get me interested again, otherwise it's just AoS 2.0 for me for the next 4 years.

Interested to see what else is to come. Expecting/hoping for better terrain rules, which I think would not nerf shooting but improve the experience for non-shooting armies. Also interested to see how mercenaries fit in. Given that Kragnos can be used in any Destruction army but means you can't run mercs must mean that mercs are about to come back, but better than previous rules?

Agree with this. A Freeguild general on foot behind 40 guard shouldn't be targeted, nor a Clawlord in a pack of 40 clanrats. Look Out Sir isn't enough (or maybe Look Out Sir should increase modifiers based on bodyguard unit size?). For terrain I'd like to see a standard 5+ save on mortal wounds from missile and most spells. That can build on existing MW saves. For example a Chaos Warrior gets 3+ MW save if also in cover (terrain MW save, plus their Runeshield MW save).

Completely agree. Enough with the cruise missile strikes. LoS is poor in AoS. Even the haphazard rule of looking from your model is unworkable. We use a laser pointer but that doesn't help when your opponent says they are flying and shooting. And mortal wounds on shooting when the unit is behind cover is utterly ridiculous. Do you even have something like that in 40k??? I play as KO, or DoT, Skaven or CoS/SCE and I have heavy shooting armies. I try to be fair but it's too easy to shoot units that have one or two models out of cover in a 20 man unit. The all or nothing approach to terrain is a bit embarrassing really. Will it change for AoS 3.0? Hoping that terrain rules will nerf it a little as the new table sizes leaked will make shooting even stronger. But like others, I'm sceptical LoS will be finessed.

Gotta admit I had hoped for some kind of Kurnothi god that Alerielle unleashed by accident. Currently, it doesn't quite hang together, but throw in a macguffin and you can explain anything. Again, it feels like design by committee: "Hey look what I've built?" "Cool... But what is it?" "Beastman Kurnothi God." "Right. But how about Destruction getting a demi-god monster? You know what would be cool? A new Orruk god-monster!" "... But it's got hooves..." "Which unleashes earthquakes!" "... And a beastman head..." "And he hates other monsters!" "But Destruction are monsters??" "Ha! Right! I knew you'd love that idea! A Destruction god he is! And we'll call him Hoofsmasha the Terrible!" "Can't we give him my original name at least?" "What? 'Dave?'" "No, no. That was for my named Knight-Arcanum. No, how about 'Kragnos'?" "Sounds a bit too Kurnothi if you ask me. But ok, you can have that. I still think Hoofsmasha is better..."

I laugh. But not surprised. Rules don't often follow lore or even models. And sometimes I wonder if the writers have even seen the model. How quick will FaQs come out for BR book 4? Or will they wait until AoS 3.0?

Gotta admit the 8 things about the rules left me a bit cold (and annoyed again by presentation - no, GW these were not an amazing 8 things at all). The main things have been leaked already, the other stuff is hardly revolutionary. So nothing about better terrain rules, no improve LoS for shooting, but we have a potential where you have a heavy monsters army; or no monsters/no 500 points+ heroes just lots of level 1 or 2 heroes with hordes. Not that interesting, but again more might be revealed. I liked the new orcs though. Like others have said, more LotR less comic. SCE are ok, but again only a handful of complete units, unless 3 is the new 5? More likely to get Dominion than not. But hardly blown away as GW thinks I should be even with upcoming models.

So after the Dominion unboxing, anyone feel blown away or hyped by the new set and rules?

This. 10 wounds is better than 9, but worse than a KoS. Some good things. Lots of bad things. Model looks good but will I field one often? Doubtful. Not something I'll be adding to my HoS force.

Also loathed to bring up LRL, but it encapsulates the problems of GWs business model which relies wholly on the loyalty/addiction towards the hobby. (Which is not pleasant really, because that leans towards exploitation). LRL are a heavily invested new faction, great for players who like aelves/elves/cows/Monkey Magic/competitive play/overpowered factions. But for everyone else it shows what you don't have - and boy does that suck. Because you cling on to the belief that GW will show your faction some love, pray they don't nerf it because they want you to buy the new models, or they have someone who can't write interesting and playable rules, turn what you love playing into a dull mess. But... And here's the rub... While LRL have their time in the sun (and admittedly it is blindingly bright for them at the moment) they will experience the fall probably in the next 2 years, and quite dramatically given the rules have them flying higher than most factions with models to match (aside from the cow-fu stuff that is 😆). Honestly though, it's this, and what happened to Petrifix OBR, and everything else that GW turns their hand to at the moment that gives me pause whenever I think about buying a new faction. I don't know if it's just me but it feels like it's being sold like the addiction they know it is. And we gobble it up without a thought to investment. Which leaves a sour taste. The more this community moves to preserving the good of AoS, ignoring the hype, the next new thing, homebrewing proper rules etc the better for the hobby, rather than for GW - who might supply the game and models... but remember, it is us, the players, that keeps the game alive.

Thanks for this thread. Without venting too much, I think that toning down power is a good thing, if it is done for every faction. The main problem is that AoS 3.0 battletomes don't consistently show that. (I say AoS 3.0 battletomes in that it's unlikely you'll see another edition until AoS 4.0 appears on the horizon, so that includes Soulblight, Hedonites and Lumineth.) The disparity of rules writing between the 3 is stark. One of these tomes is definitely more powered than the other 2 (no guessing which). This doesn't bode well for AoS 3.0 which would need to nerf much of their rules within months of release which would make GW appear incompetent. I echo what others have said that the lore, rules and models are showing a disconnect in AoS, more so recently. And I have not felt more disinterested by new releases recently than any other time during AoS because of this. It is not unusual, sure, but it's gotten more obvious in the last year or so.

The timing of this isn't good though, do you think? I know HoS players are a fraction (or a faction!) of all AoS players, but dropping a sub-par AoS 3.0 warscroll on the same day as a major AoS 3.0 reveal could be a big mistake. Nothing dampens ones enthusiasm for new rules by demonstrating that you're not very good at writing them. But... this could all be a ruse, and the Newborn might have an amazing warscroll. Hoping for the best then...

Not sure if I'm looking forward to the reveal so I can laugh hysterically (with some relief that I'll no way buy a £60 level 2 hero that can be taken out turn 1, not to mention not needing to buy BR book 4)... Or in the hope we're wrong, that HoS are not hated by the current writers and the Newborn reflect their origins in the warscroll. Not that confident really. I'll reserve my "just what the heck is going on at Games Workshop" moment until later though.

9 wounds has gotta be wrong then - and by extension this leak. Either that or the rules writers really hate HoS. Which is also possible.

Wow. That's really quite underwhelming - if it's true. (Slaanesh must be pretty feeble if this is the best it can spawn). Anyone got an idea of scale for this model? Was expecting same size as a KoS? But at 9 wounds... feels like its about the same size as a Drycha. Might wrong though.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but reading through the Soulblight battletome, it seems to hint at mercenaries and allies more than soup. I do wonder if AoS 3.0 will either drop allied unit/points limitations but beef up limitations on who is allied to whom (and how faction abilities work with allies). It might even allow unlimited mercenary units as hinted by Nagash's shiny and much reduced warscroll 🤔. No need for soup then, if you can pick 2 or 3 other starters on the menu?

Absolutely right. And lest we forget that Barak Thryng already allows duardin units to be part of a KO force (1 in 4). This isn't soup, but it's better than allies, and reflects a kinship at least with this Skyport and other duardin, which does not exist elsewhere in the KO skyports. The KO lore is explicit in that at times they are hostile to other duardin races. To combine them all in one battletome is a bad, and quite lazy idea. But that hasn't stopped GW from doing it before, nor will that stop them doing it again.

So I know I shouldn't, but I've looking at the Soul Wars boxset on the GW site again, and hoping that we get something similar again for AoS 3.0. As minimum I hope in the preview to see 50-60 models, the core book, and some war scrolls. Not fussed about rulers or dice, or even a starter book (although I do like these). And of course, core rules. Not even bothered about an Indomitus-type set, just Soul Wars boxset for AoS 3.0 (and as widely available as Soul Wars was). Anything less than that will set the hares running I think as we all expect a price tag of £125 minimum this time around. That's me being optimistic by the way. 😆

Really good point. I confess I've not paid Fyreslayers too much attention until I read this, but looking at the webstore you get a sense that GW have completely messed up here. I mean, for the same price as 2 boxes of 5 bezerkers, you get 10 bezerkers, 2 heroes and a hero riding a lava dragon. It's seems obscene to buy so little plastic, when the SC box is such good value. This is the worst balance I've seen in the business model yet. And for the models to be static too. Not sure what GW are thinking there... But seems a shame to tank a faction because of their bad choices. I think the aesthetic is a good one, as is the lore and culture, but again just bad business decisions really. And again, souping them isn't the answer. Better pricing, a new unit, and some better rules would light a fire for these pint-sized toga wearing dwarfs, I'm sure!

Agree completely. Other than racially, the two are completely different. Allies are fine, but duardin soup with Fyreslayers is just plain daft. Keep CoS as the bridge across the divide, and have more CoS armies that use the co-faction limitation, i.e. closer than allies rather than soup, including Fyreslayers (who are, after all, mercenary). I do like the idea of having cross allegiance soupers, though. Or perhaps less soup, more straddlers. For example, how about Beasts of Destruction, rather than Chaos? Fits with Kragnos... and some smashy-smashy abilities would be Ghur-rate.

I know we're now on Book 4 of Broken Realms, but honestly did anyone else struggle through book 2? As a narrative this was so underwhelming. I thought at least book 1 had drama. But this..? I mean flying mountains? A force so powerful this is the first time you've seen them do anything even during the Storm of Sigmar? Even when all the realms were in trouble and Teclis didn't lift a finger? And he's supposed to be wise? So much of this doesn't hang together. While I think that Nagash needed to taste defeat once more, LRL should not have been the ones to bring it. After all the shenanigans with the Allpoints and Wrath of the Everchosen, might have been better for Archaon or Be'lakor to bring him down. So not happy with the lore, but the writing was so unengaging. This book was no more than a vehicle for the next wave of LRL models and little else, masquerading as a limp ending for the Soul Wars. Thoroughly disappointed and my least favourite of all the campaign books Realmgate Wars included. As for the rest of BR... well it's turned me off tbh. I didn't buy book 3 and may wait until book 3 and 4 go for less on a reseller even though I'm also a Slaves2D player. Really at the moment I feel less is more, and this all feels badly rushed and badly planned. Enthusiasm for AoS is starting to dwindle alas, so hoping AoS 3.0 will rekindle it!

What would you do if this does turn into another "Cursed City" debacle though? I've been asking myself this - and honestly I don't think I'd walk away from Age of Sigmar. I think it's more likely that I'll continue playing AoS 2.0 if other players agree. It would mean not buying any new models or battletomes until say AoS 4.0, but ultimately that would hurt GW more than me. And would mean other game systems get my attention than just GW's.

As Saturmorn Carvilli mentioned, I raised this yesterday and since then the news of Warhammer Dominion landed. I've gone from super hyped like a kid on a sugar rush to again the realisation that GW might really mess this up as they have too many times to mention recently. So my quandary is whether to put myself through the pain of at least spending £125 on the new set (but hey it could be a lot more) for rules that are a complete mess, with a ruleset focusing on selling new models rather than showing loyalty to past gamers and the armies they've spent good money on. Rules that are buggier than an EA game and need FAQs from the get-go. And that's even if GW have the competence/morals/trust to make the Dominion set less "Cursed City" more "Indomitus" in its availability. As for this Saturday, do I honestly think any of this Warhammer Community fanboy enthusiasm will make up for a lack of assurances from GW that everyone will get a chance to buy Dominion? I got to say, it all feels unlikely. And yep, my experience is that too many in the hobby have had enough of GW too. And the sad thing is that it's all avoidable. Games Workshop needs to prove it can do this better than they have. They can't blame this all on Covid.

So how does everyone feel about the new AoS 3.0 release? Obviously it won't be like the debacle of Cursed City or Kill Team release/massive hikes, but is GW in a good spot at the moment to be trusted, given what's happened so far with Cursed City? I must confess I feel less excited and more anxious about GW releases these days. I don't worry for GW as such (GW are in many ways like Apple and Electronic Arts - they like to be customer focused but their business methods are aggresive). I'm concerned about the money and time invested in a hobby that feels almost exploited. And at times incompetently. The problems with Cursed City, LRL, the weirdest (and not in a good way) new sculpts, and rubbish faction rules have put AoS almost back to the bad days of AoS 1.0, IMO. I just don't feel that AoS 3.0 is in good hands. The new Soulblight book was very underwhelming tbh. Not a good sign. So, would I trust GW to bring out a new boxset for my favourite hobby that's fairly priced, that won't run out of stock months before it is released, and for all their communications to be altered or redacted later? Not really. I'm not given to conspiracy theories or too much negativity, but I don't hold a lot of faith for this new release. Hopefully they will prove us all wrong. I reckon I will buy the new AoS 3.0 set, but if it is badly priced or badly written, then that will be time for me. Not just for AoS but for GW.