Craze

I think based on facts Sylvaneth are in a rough spot right now. If you look at the December & January figures of the Honest Wargamer, Sylvaneth are one of the worst factions with an updated 2.0 Battletome. I have not yet played against the biggest bogeymen in the meta (OBR & Changehost), but from my gut feeling I would guess that we have quite some tools against DoT in that we have LoS blocking terrain, where we can hide our valuable pieces from Alpha Strikes, we can deploy stuff in the realmroots to protect even more stuff and our strongest choice of a unit (Kurnoth Hunters) should be able to chew nicely through Horror screens. So overall my feeling would be that Sylvaneth are not positioned as badly as the latest numbers would imply, but perhaps someone with more experience could give some more insights.

You can make both Flayers or Horrors from it. The sprue always includes all the pieces.

Malakithe, you nailed it! 100% agreement from my side. The nerf needs to come, but it needs to focus on Changehost and possibly Flamers/Horrors, but central mechanics for Tzeentch as a whole - like DD - should stay unchanged!

It is exactly the same situation as in DoK with Hagg Narr. Instead of just changing the single rule which breaks Hagg Narr, they tinker with points, which impacts other builds too, because they lose power in the same amount as Hagg Narr, so people will still not play anything else...and I fear something similar will happen with DoT. 🙄

I can understand your arguments, perhaps I have written it a little too drastic: Of course there are uses for 3s and 4s too. My main point is: Why nerf an armywide ability if there is only one very special thing (in this case Changehost) that is really over the top? But couldn't DD in the 1st BT be used for ANY roll? Like for example making Fold Reality auto-succeed?

Am I the only one that would absolutely hate a change of the "unmodified" rule? If this tome has a problem, it is the interaction of Flamers/Horrors/Conflagration/Duplicitous/Changehost, not the DD mechanic. In my opinion for most of the armies considered "OP" it is exactly one subfaction that powers the whole army, e.g. Petrifex Elite, Hagg Narr, Gristlegore or Tyrants of Blood, to name a few. I fail to understand why in most of these cases GW decides to balance this with point increases, instead of trying to balance this one subfaction and by this weaken the whole army instead of the subfaction where it is required most (and only). The same I would see in a fundamental change of the DD mechanic: OFC you would nerf the Changehost army, but you would also nerf Mortal builds by making DD rolls of 3 & 4 almost useless, which would help to protect your Acolyte blobs under the unmodified rule. I really hope that GW will only touch the very problematic builds and not traits that affect EVERY armybuild, even ones considered fair Right now. In my opinion a change of Changehost to only teleport one unit per round would make a huge difference and would only hit the problematic builds, without harming anything else!

I guess one of the most simple ways to balance the Changhost + Conflagration/Multitudous would be to reduce the teleporting of units to 1 per Hero Phase, which would prevent the DoT player to teleport both a Flamer + the buffing Exalted Flamer.

I guess the best start is always to get 2 Start Collecting boxes, as they contain basically the complete range except the Arch-Regent and the Varghulf.

I have tried taking pointy Eels in some games and was really happy with their overall performance. The immense movement really helped me with applying pressure from turn 1 , as I often struggled to do something meaningful if I had to go first.

Yes, it will buff both attack sequences, as it buffs them for the whole Combat Phase.

It should work like this, as normally it is specially mentioned if only the unmodified roll is used (e.g. double-casting lore spells in LoN). Alarielle for example can use Throne of Vines to buff her Metamorphosis, which has a similar wording as Arcane Bolt.

Where can you see the list of the winner?

I think it would be really sad, as any point increase, however small, would make Big N absolutely unplayable.

Just one idea: Arkhan will be part of Bonereapers, Olynder is already part of Nighthaunt. What if the "target" GW is pursuing for Death would be to have a separate faction for every Mortarch? Neferata could lead some kind of Vampire troops, while good old Manny will lead the more feral parts of the undead troops or the hordes of Skeletons and Zombies, while Nagash can be part of every single army of these. In Morghasts there are also regular troops included in the new army (same as with NH), this could also happen with future armies, where some of the existing range will get distributed. About the competitiveness of Death armies: In the stats from thehonestwargamer.com from July 19, of the armies with a meaningful Meta%, #2 (FEC) and #6 (LoN) are Death armies, so I think it is quite fair to say that Death armies had a very strong meta-Position, at least until GHB19.

Perhaps I could need additional CP for resurrection. The Swords I mainly use because 4 of my 5 enemies will be Chaos armies, so I guess they will pull their weight.

I am right now facing a very difficult situation: I will play a small 2k tournament with friends and will field the Great Necromancer and his minions (Big N, 2x Necro, 40x Skellis, 5x Wolves, 2x Harbingers, 6x Spirit Hosts, Spellportal, Quicksilver Swords), which comes straight to 2k points. Now the Question arises: Do I need additional CP? I could - for example - drop one Necromancer for an Executioner + 1CP, but is this worth it?

Thanks, I had already seen it by now, but it was not uploaded the time I was asking. I have to say, I don't like that list, to be honest. Do you guys think it is mandatory to go so extremely Hunter heavy? I am right now thinking about something like this: Allegiance: Sylvaneth - Glade: Winterleaf Mortal Realm: Ghyran Spirit of Durthu (340) - General - Trait: My Heart Is Ice - Artefact: Ghyrstrike Branchwraith (80) - Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony Arch-Revenant (100) - Artefact: Frozen Kernel Alarielle the Everqueen (660) - Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines 20 x Spite-Revenants (200) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) 5 x Tree-Revenants (80) 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200) - Greatswords Outcasts (100) Spiteswarm Hive (50) Umbral Spellportal (70) Total: 2000 / 2000 Inspiration is (obviously) the London GT list. I chose to knock down the Hunters to 3 and max out one S-Rev unit + a 5 man squad of T-Revs for more objective control. Depending on the match-up, Alarielle can either summon 20 Dryads or 3 more Hunters. Thoughts?

Does anyone know, what kind of a Sylvaneth list went Top 5 at Facahmmer GT?

Setting them up IN a forest sadly is not going to work, due to the LoS restrictions of the Woods model.

I would be really interested about the main usage of that Spellportal. Was it mainly used to Metamorphosis-Snipe heroes across the board, or to slam down Woods at the other end of the board?

I had a game against a freind playing BoK yesterday. My choice was a Gnarlroot list, Looking like this: TLA (General, vesperal gem) Drycha Wraith ( Chalice) Wraith Durthu Spites x20 Spites x5 Spites x5 Hunter x6 Outcasts Vengefull Skullroot The game was quite tight, going back and forth between me slaughtering his Reavers and him slaughtering my Spite-Revenants, but in the end I lost as I just had no bodies for controlling objectives left. I like Drycha a lot, her output is quite good in Gnarlroot, the Vesperal Gem/Nurtured by Magic combo is sweet and I like the Overall feel of the army, but... ...one question came to me after this game: Can we afford to not play an Arch Revenant? I really missed the rerolling of Kurnoth hits and the possibility to increase my melee punch in crucial fights. What do you guys think? Is the Arch-Revenant an auto-include?

And I am also coming again with another list I want to try: Allegiance: Sylvaneth - Glade: Harvestboon Mortal Realm: Ulgu Leaders Spirit of Durthu (340) - General - Trait: Seek New Fruit - Artefact: The Silent Sickle Treelord Ancient (300) - Artefact: Spiritsong Stave - Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony Branchwraith (80) - Deepwood Spell: Regrowth Branchwraith (80) - Deepwood Spell: Regrowth Arch-Revenant (100) Battleline 20 x Spite-Revenants (200) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) Units 6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400) - Scythes Behemoths Treelord (200) Battalions Outcasts (100) Endless Spells / Terrain Gladewyrm (30) Spiteswarm Hive (50) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 111 The idea is to have to massive melee threats in Durthu and the blob of Hunters, while also having some shooting in between the three Treelords. If everything works as planned, S-Revs + summoned Dryads will hold objectives, backed up by the vanilla Treelord, while Durthu + Hunters grind through the enemy lines, buffed by Harvestboon and/or Arch-Revs CA. TLA will support where he is needed, summoning endless spells to get Durthu and the Hunters into melee asap, or resurrect Hunters. Additionally I have three stomps to try to influence/disrupt the combats as much as possible in my favour, to ensure Durthu and Hunters stay healthy. One topic is spell and artifact choice, especially on the TLA. Do you think the Spiritsong Stave is worth it, or should I go for the Vesperal Gem to guarantee the resurrects (or healing, if i choose Regrowth on him)? Additional feedback is of course also more than welcome.

I think the strength of our new tome is the massive flexibility we have. In my opinion the thing coming closest to a must have (but isn't one, strictly speaking) would be 3x Spite-Revenants and the Outcast Batallion, as it is the cheapest way to fill battlelines and enables you to take an additional artifact, as our artifact choices are really great. Additionally a Branchwraith is almost mandatory, as she can try to summon a unit of 10 Dryads every turn, which (in most games) leads to her not costing any real points by the end of the game. By then you really have a lot of options: Kurnoth Hunters are really great, whatever loadout you choose. Arch-Revenant is a really good support hero (though difficult to buy one, as it was only released in the Looncurse box so far) Durthu is a very good choice for a General, as his Damage output tends to be insane with the correct artifacts + buffs Drycha is a very solid option, especially in Glades like Winterleaf or Gnarlroot Treelord Ancient is a good choice, as he is like a swiss army knife type of monster: You can boost his casting with artifacts, his stomp is really good, he has a decent melee profile and is quite tanky. Dryads are a good battleline choice, which is more resilient than Spite Revenants and also has chances of good output due to their 2" range, which enables them to attack in multiple ranks. This is not even a complete list, as almost all units in our tome have their uses. I think it is important to decide what kind of an army you want to play (magic heavy, melee focused, etc.) and then go from there. A Start Collecting box is a very good way to start, as it includes a Treelord kit, which you can build into any variant + some Dryads. From there you can then expand with Kurnoth Hunters, Spite Revenants, more Dryads/Trees etc, however your playstyle and preference is.

Hi I agree with the other answers: In my opinion you lack bodies and punch, for that I would cut one TLA, the batallion and Cogs as it is kind of redundant with the Hive. This would free up 440 points which you could use to get more Hunters+ an additional Branchwraith + S-Rev bodies. Or you could add Durthu as another trheat, together with a Branchwraith. In both cases you wouldn't even lose a cast/turn, but gain more board control/punch.

Good luck for the tournament! I am kind of in a tough spot right now. I have the feeling that our new BT gives us so many options that all seem to be at least ok, if not super strong, which makes it really tough for me to decide what I want to play as a "main" loadout. Of course Winterleaf seems to be the "punchiest" Glade with potentially insane output from Durthu/Hunters. But apart from the output superiority of Winterleaf I think there are at least 3 Glades that look - at least on paper - really good. Gnarlroot gives nice bonuses, especially the Chalice really helps with Dryad summoning and the rerolls are really strong on verious Units (e.g. Drycha) Harvestboon also has a nice punch and I guess "Seek new fruit" is the thing I like best in the whole book (not power wise, but for "style" reasons) Dreadwood as a mobility Glade + S-Rev heavy list, could also be really good. I am really torn right now. What Glade do you guys like best and what do you see as strengths/weaknesses of the particular Glades?