Malakree

I think it's entirely dependent on what units you're running. I played B&G without it then two recent ones with it and had two thoughts about it. The reduced drop number is really important. Even shaving only 2 drops (I had 3 battleline) meant I got to pick in games I normally wouldn't. It massively improved my Ardboyz and Brute mobility, it was alright for the GG's but not amazing. So as @Chris Tomlin has said the 2 units of 3 GG's help reduce the need for it because they fill the mobility gap. If on the other hand you are running 3 blocks of Brutes then I think the Ironfist is still mandatory, it works out as a 25-150% increase in their speed. Also the Ironfist does some really funky stuff with lots of IJ heroes. Use the ironfist move to reposition so that you can get the destruction move. More importantly use the Ironfist to play around the 12" charge bubble for the destruction move. You can pull back an inch or 2 so that you don't have to charge with it etc. My last game of the 3rd tournament I triggered 3 destruction moves on a unit of GG's, the last of which pushed them into the 12" bubble. Then I pulled a 3 on my ironfist, which combined with the 9" movement allowed me to completely avoid a shield wall he had setup in front of 3 knight-heraldor letting me get my unit of 6 GG's in on them ultimately winning me the game. I'm definitely enjoying the Ironfist move with my 4 IJ heroes, it lets some stupid stuff happen. The thing that tempts me to drop it is the extra 3 GG's, I think at 9 GG's I would rather have 2 blocks of 6 than a 6 and a 3 with Ironfist.

Rock lobbas 100 points. This means you can field 4 at 2000pts 40" range, no LoS 1 attack at 3+(to 5+)/3+/-2/3 Extra shot on 6+ hit roll in batteries +1 vs units of 10 or more. Doom Divers 120 points. This means you can field 3 at 2000pts 50" range (to 20"), no LoS 1 attack at 3+/3+/-1/d3 d6 damage in batteries On miss 4+ to hit a different unit instead. So the important differences are 40 points spare per 2 rock lobbas, or 40 points more for the 4th rock lobba. 1 extra Rend for Rock Lobba, Flat 3 damage vs d6 Extra shot on a roll of 6+ (5+ vs units of 10 or more). No miss redirect on a 4+ Assuming optimal conditions, your doom diver hits on a 3+. This means that the 4+ to redirect is functionally a "hit" on a 2+ (D6 roll of 1 = 1-3, D6 roll of 2 = 4-6. 3+ is a hit). Hence it's fair to say doom divers generically "hit on a 2+" provided you don't care about who you hit. For Character sniping Both hit on a 3+ The Rocklobba has an extra rend Guaranteed 3 damage vs d6 Extra shot on 6+ to hit The important thing to note here is that most characters are 5/6 wounds, so 2 hits from a rock lobba will kill them guaranteed. On the other hand the doom diver has a 1/5 or 1/6 chance to instikill them but has approximately the same chance to not kill them in 2 shots. When you add in the extra rend, potential second shot and 20 point cost reduction I feel for character sniping the rock lobba is the better choice. For hitting Unit Blocks Both hit on a 2+ (see above for doomdiver) Rocklobba has an extra rend Guaranteed 3 damage vs d6 Extra shot on 5+ to hit In this case the consistency of the damage is less relevant. The extra rend is going to be quite important vs some armies, particularly ones with rerollable saves. The extra shot on a 5+ is also amazingly nice. In this situation the two are more or less equivalent, there are a couple of reasons for this. Against small elite units the rock lobba becomes less effective but the extra rend is much nicer, against large chaff units the rock lobba becomes more effective but the rend becomes potentially less useful. In both situations the damage range of the doom diver is probably far more useful than the flat damage. Against anything with negative to hit vs shooting, Nurgle being the obvious choice, the Doom Diver is king. It's Grot-Guided Missile gets better and better as the opponent gets harder to hit while a -1 cripples the rock lobba against small units and -2 against ALL units. Conclusion As a character sniping tool, which is what they want to replace the spear chukkas, the rock lobba is better. While for general purposes the two are essentially equivalent. The main thing that puts the rock lobba ahead is the 20 point cost reduction. That has a huge bunch of implications not least is that you can field 4, this gives you 2 batteries instead of 1 and increases your number of shots by 33%. Hence, Rock Lobba over Doom Diver.

I had all of these 8 and dual strike/Scrag em, which are explained above. That said against the undead I really would have loved confusion, it's so key to get on the warden and he can block it off from you. Again I ran these 7, I almost ran the basha/hakka get +1 dice if they charge. Their abilities and the fact they inspire to 1/3/2 means they can become monsters in their own right. Hackka getting cleave on a crit is brutal on 1/4/2. There's also an upgrade card which is helpful whispers - "if this fighter treats (1 support) as a success if they are unsupported" not sure on the exact wording but it's a great neutral for us because all our inspired fighters are so solid. Again on had 2 floating upgrades which were meh.

I used all of these, healing potion is fantastic. I'd say autoinclude. There are so many good objectives, especially for early scoring, that I think they are unnecessary, they also detract from your primary goal of moving forward/supporting all your fighters. For early objectives you've got deres more of us, biggest and da best. Good scrap Plant the banner - "score in an end phase if your leader controls an objective I'm the enemy territory." A - "score immediately if 3 of your fighters make a charge action." - "score this in an end phase if each of your your remaining fighters 2+ has attacked a different enemy fighter this phase, 2 glory" Swift advance - "score this in an end phase of all of your remaining fighters are in enemy territory" - "Score this in an end phase if each of your remaining fighters, 3+ is adjacent to an enemy fighter" 2 glory There is also a very cool objective which combos with 1 (2) potential ploys. The cards read - "score this immediately if one of your fighters attacks with support from 2+ more fighters than your opponent" Scrag em and dual strike - "for the next attack each of your fighters counts as 2 fighters for support" Before you say anything, yes this does work, I had it FAQ by the guy who designed the game before I handed my list in! So you can see there really is no need for 1-5 in your objectives deck. That's 9 cards for your deck all of which are pretty easy to score running at 1/2 glory each. This let's you play the objective game of messing with your opponents ability to cap while leaving you free of the same trap. I loved my 2 of my final 3 which I would keep Conquest - "score in 3rd end phase if all your surviving fighters are in enemy territory. - "score this if you scored 2+ other objective cards this round". The final card is my question. There's no obvious one I could find and you probably want a 3rd end phase big scorer. Possibly ard as iron for an opponent who is playing really defensive.

So I played ironskulls boyz at the bad dice tournament on Friday. Managed to finish in 6th, don't remember my deck list but can find out next week if people are intrested. I only had about 30mins to build the deck so there is easily room for refinement. The warband is hyper aggressive with a lot of amazing warband specific cards. You are very dependent on both board setup, you want to have as many linking hexes as possible, and on objective placement. Since you generally won't have the 1-5 cards you want to use your first placement in your opponents half to block good placement for him and put it towards the front of his board. Plant the banner let's you score 1 if gurzag holds a point in the enemy territory so a nice east score is great and it denies your opponent good defensive objectives to. The deck itself is very aggressive but with great tricks. In the poly phase you can trigger a free attack, get a move off that attack and even trigger charges. This let's you act out of sequence a lot. Only gurzag is good uninspired but with 4 health the others inspire easily. Once they do there is no bad fighter.

Allegiance: DestructionLeadersOrruk Megaboss (140)- GeneralOrruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Warchanter (80)Battleline15 x Orruk Brutes (540)- Ironjawz Battleline10 x Orruk Brutes (360)- Ironjawz Battleline10 x Orruk Brutes (360)- Ironjawz Battleline10 x Orruk Brutes (360)- Ironjawz BattlelineReinforcement Points (0)Total: 2000 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400 WAAAGH!!!

I think the complaint largely revolves around it scoring multiple times in a turn. If your opponent takes first turn, grabs 3 objectives, of 4, scores 3 then gets a 2nd turn, scores 3 again, takes a 3rd turn and scores another 3. At that point you start YOUR first turn and it's 9-0 on points. You get 5 points for seizing objectives so if you sieze on your turn 1 it's now 9-5. For the next 4 turns you score 3 and he scores 1. So you get 12 he gets 4, the score at the end of turn 5 is 13-17. That means there's 4 points in it, ie. If it takes you till turn 2 to seize or he manages to reclaim you lose. All of this assumes you come out of the first tripple turn in enough of a shape to completely DOMINATE the rest of the game. Considering all the advantages gained from just having an extra turn being able to score multiple times in a round is overwhelming.

I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise as that prevents the problem from occurring in any other situation as well. One of the problems is that there is a limited amount of time the player testers have and their going to be limited in perspectives and thought patterns. It's like in wow, the player base puts in more playtime in the first day than they can in months. It's why iterative game design works, because they design the weirdfist, we find all the problems with it and discard it as useless then we all say "if only it did X" suggest it to them and they have a variety of options they could potentially choose from while not having to commit their limited resources to that ONE problem. The interaction between eotg and points battles is Super niche. As you said you could play over a hundred games and never have it happen. That's one interaction of one model out of thousands.

Given that the fix is so easy and doesn't impact the army in any other way it's an easy and obvious solution. Something else is just as exploitive in a different scenario isn't an excuse to fix this exploit.

Yeah it should be that you score and claim objectives at the end of your first turn in any given battle round.

Look at it like this, a guy on the front row is always the one killed. Does the next rank step up, if yes then the model at the back is removed, if no the one at the front. Jesus those ardboyz look like ardwork, mine takes a while to do but I can't imagine it's anything close to yours...

@Chris Tomlin I really want to see you do a doom diver variant like your spear chukkas, thinking a one of your orruks holding a grot like a javelin those would look hillarious!

The other option is to drop one unit of piggies and put in a Megaboss on foot ! Try to abuse that reroll 1s