JonnyTheKing

Honestly right now, I’m kinda down on AoS 3.0, the coherency rule makes no sense, people online immediately pointed it out as being stupid so how did the writers of the rules not realise it? And the game also doesn’t need reactions that involve shooting, why? AoS has kinda had me down since the first Slaanesh Battletome and right now with Lumineth being the unbearably boring army to face that they are right now due to their NPE this has kinda just been the final nail in the coffin for me right now hopefully it turns out ok!

I knew this would be coming from a Lumineth player 😉

Well, guess I’m staying with 40K for the foreseeable future then

I'd but 50/50 as my answer if there was one. Mortal wounds are fine as a mechanic if used lightly, however recent books (Looking at you Lumineth) perhaps have them way too much too point in which it becomes a lazy crutch mechanic for an army and I'd argue that it is now one of my main gripes with the game in its current form as it just makes games boring in some situations and frustrating in others. It's one of the main reasons people hate Lumineth right now because they have mortal wounds access very easily on one of the most broken warscrolls in the game (Sentinels)

Hello all, new to Deepkin! Ordered my first boxes just now, what do you guys do about the flight stands? Do they cause many issues? do you use them at all? Would love some thoughts

That's a battalion, not built in

People just want to discuss thoughts on an army and people on both sides have taken it a bit far imo

Yeah I do not think they are OP at all, they just have some unfun warscrolls that need some point adjustments at the very least.

Dude, no offence, the fact you are boiling it down to just dice rolls shows that you yourself are refusing to let people have genuine criticism of the army and saying “it’s just bias” and shows that you truly don’t understand what the player on the opposite end of the board is experiencing Cathallar - You act like unbinding the Cathallar is easy, especially when they get bonuses to cast and soon a Reroll too, my one shaman with no bonuses to cast will surely do excellent against that. This combined with -bravery, I’m sure my bravery 3 or 4 Brutes will pass this often 😂 Sentinels - You are joking right? If you don’t understand the value on 30 inch ranged mortal wounds I don’t know what to tell you, especially when you bypass the main weakness of shooting which is line of sight blocking terrain. As I have said, I have won or drawn every game, my tactics against Lumineth are perfectly sound, but I do not enjoy playing them because some of their rules are just badly designed, it’s simple as that. If you like them then that’s great, more power to you, but people are allowed to have genuine complaints that have solid reasoning behind them and not be told “stop playing against meta lists” or “you’re just not playing tactically enough” is not a good argument

My friend doesn’t play a meta list though at all? I don’t know why you’d assume that? It is possible to have problems with Lumineth outside of meta lists because those uninteractive abilities can still exist in other lists. The games I’ve had involving Teclis have been fine overall more so than other games, probably helped by the fact that my Orruk lists run maybe 1 caster the problem games have literally involved higher numbers of Sentinels and a Cathallar or 2 because they just stop me rolling dice, it’s boring at the end of the day, it’s simple as that again, nobody has an agenda, as shown here you automatically presumed it was a meta list I was going up against, when in fact every time the lists have had differences in them, people can just have genuine problems with clearly overpowered warscrolls in the game. I’d argue that Lumineth are most fun when going more with the Stoneguard and battle cow stuff

I’d also like to add both friends who play Lumineth have told me they feel bad about playing them now too because they are getting basically everything

Most players here will tell you that they don’t want Lumineth to be bad, they just want mechanics that don’t just completely stop dice rolling. As I said earlier on this thread, I’ve played around 10 games against Lumineth with my Ironjawz or Big Waaagh! I have not lost once (couple draws) but I never came away from the table feeling like I had a fun game because I was constantly getting my already important CP stripped from me, my hit rolls getting reduced (nee stuff making this even more hooray!) units with already bad bravery getting reduced further and having units not being able to do any actions. Sentinels (extra range on these guys who ignore line of sight too soon!) and Cathallar are both problem units, this is undeniable at this point, it’s well known how powerful and oppressive they are, sure do love my entire Gore Grunta units running away because they decimated a unit of Wardens but 1 managed to survive and I then get the battleshock reflected onto me it’s not about an army being good or bad, it never has, it’s the fact that they just have boring, unfun mechanics, so far I think the new wave looks mostly ok, outside of a couple from the leaks. You cannot tell me you wouldn’t take Sentinels even at 200 points, that just shows how incredibly powerful they are right now. A lot of players are just down on them because they do most mechanics now and also bypass core rules.

I think with a few tweaks here and there in terms of points for some units or even just a bit of a core rule change in 3rd Ed you can make Lumineth a lot better. Sentinels need a complete rework though, a unit that you’d still absolutely consider taking even if it went to 200-220 points shows just how insane that warscroll is

Oh boy Lumineth, I have two friends who regularly play them and I have not lost yet to them (Couple draws though) Lumineth are such a dull and uninteractive army to go up against, their rules are just so oppressive to the opponent. If I can win and have a kinda rubbish time, that is not good. The new stuff from the supposed leaks solidify this further, they are adding further rules to reduce interaction with them. The future of Lumineth does not bode well for me, whoever thought 30 inch archers (getting even more range now! Hooray!) are fine need their content looked over before submission. I hope to be wrong, but time will tell, if they do have more design flaws hopefully it is fixed quick because right now they kill any excitement I have for the future of AoS

I’m in a weird spot with Lumineth, they’re very powerful but I don’t think they’re truly broken, Sentinels and the Cathallar absolutely need adjusted though, whether that be the points or the warscroll itself. I also find Lumineth super unfun to play, I’ve played around 10 games against them now and never lost but I’ve only enjoyed maybe 1 of the games? 100% agree that there are huge differences in power, look at most Blades of Khorne units and then compare them to Lumineth units, it’s absolutely insane the difference between them. Hopefully 3rd Ed can bring everything back to similar levels

To bring this thread back topic because it’s very much gone off topic: apart from the problematic shooting meta going on right now that needs addressed I’d love to see the battleshock phase get a bit of a revamp in 3rd Ed. 40K has a pretty simple way of doing the phase right now that works well and I would be up for this being implented into AoS I’d also 100% love an Age of Sigmar Crusade system because Crusade is super fun

Listing other problem armies isn’t a defence for Lumineth really is it though, the difference between those and Lumineth is that they have to be lists tailored in a certain way, whereas it’s literally as soon as you see Sentinels or the Cathalar you know you are in for an unfun time. If Sentinels were 200-220 points they would still see major play, that highlights just how strong that warscroll is. There is a reason AoS players who I follow are taking breaks and going back to 40K and SW Legions etc, the game has a lot of problems right now and Lumineth are not the only problem right now, but they need addressed, whether that be a core rule change in 3rd Ed or a warscroll revisit for their problem units and that is the same for armies such as Seraphon. Even though you say it isn’t, the game is still always about fun, tabletop games are a social contract too, you play BS lists and your table will turn awkward very quickly, if that’s what you want then fair enough but is it unhealthy in every level of the game

Player enjoyment is always important in this hobby, at the end of the day this isn’t League of Legends or any other competitive game. You are looking your opponent in the eyes from across the board not the screen, I would consider myself a fairly competitive player but I will always strive to take into account as to whether my list is fun to play in any competitive level. Lumineth are unfun because of how uninteractive they are with the opponents army, I regularly play a Lumineth opponent and win the majority of my games against them but rarely leave the game feeling fulfilled as a player when I’m just told I can’t do stuff over and over again, get countless mortal wounds thrown at me from range without any serious penalty, it’s boring at the end of the day. Even casually the army is not fun, I play Khorne mainly Khorne when I want to play casually and Lumineth essentially make the majority of the book useless when they’re such a small hero heavy army and you can do nothing to defend them when even line of sight doesn’t matter. I’m sorry but the army is very badly designed in certain areas, it’s not even a discussion or something that can be defended, it’s well known that it is a bad play experience and that is bad for the game as a whole. This hobby has always been about enjoyment first and it’s doing more damage to the game having Lumineth existing in the form that they do right now

At the end of the day no matter your opinion on Sentinels, the army is just not fun to play most times when using heavy Sentinels, Sentinels just make certain armies impossible to play against them and that just sucks. Being able to shoot without line of sight and mortal wounds on 5+ is just AWFUL game design there is no excusing it, it is not fun and the end of the day that is what matters

Very good points, 100% agree that it’s very evident there needs to be more communication between the rules team because there’s clearly different approaches to the game’s rules being taken

For AOS 3 honestly just a bit of a pull back on the power creep, it’s becoming a serious issue right now with the games enjoyment sadly. We have seen just how abusive shooting is right now, at least a tidy up to the shooting phase would be nice (More disadvantages for shooting units, for example a unit CANNOT shoot if they are in engagement range in combat) even then some of the warscrolls the way they are is still going to be an issue but that is the big one for me really battleshock is also a phase I’d like to be tweaked right now, the way 40K handles battleshock right now is pretty solid so I’d be totally fine if they just implemented that way of doing it into Age of Sigmar

Honestly the AOS team’s rules writers are super hit or miss, they release cool stuff but then they release awful boring warscrolls or terribly overpowered warscrolls

Hi! Please enjoy my character concept for a playable character for Cursed City!

200 Slickblade seeker x5 200 Slickblade seeker x5 400 Slickblade seeker x10 180 Blissbarb seekers x5 160 Blissbarb archers x11 160 Blissbarb archers x11 160 Blissbarb archers x11 340 Keeper of Secrets 150 Shardspeaker Extra CP this is the list I plan to try Keeper of Secrets: Just a solid hero and the best place to put command traits and artefacts and can allow me to double pile in with Seeker units Blissbarb Archers: 3 units cover my battleline and are able to pepper units generating Depravity as the game goes on Shardspeaker: can provide some support where needed and also another summing spot other than the Keeper or Fane Slickblade Seekers: General damage for a decent price and decent wounds, holds the enemy forces back before daemons flood the board Blissbarb Seekers: Provides quick firepower if needed somewhere, also didn’t have the points spare to make them Slickblade 😅 Unsure on which sub allegiance I want to take yet so left blank, but I think as a list it has some potential to do some cool stuff, some changes I’ve considered is maybe scrapping a unit of Slickblade Seekers for a Bladebringer on seeker chariot or potentially swapping the Blissbarb Seekers, the extra CP and the shardspeaker for Glutos potentially since I love him and his crew so much, could provide some very cool support to the list, however I’d be sacrificing a lot of my list to do so

I like this concept, needs tweaked though, it’s maybeeeeee just a bit too many points 😅