PJetski

Before the Fyreslayers and Bonereapers books it would be impossible to imagine an army that durable. Now I think you can easily make all Stormcast units a 3+ save and give all our heroes +2 wounds... assuming you did something about Staunch Defender and Warding Lantern.

You could do a lot with some point cost changes, but all that does is give us more bodies on the table. Do we need more bodies? I don't think so, it seems like we have the right number of models. I would rather see those models get more effective than get more numerous. Our battalions probably still wouldn't be worth using because they use combinations of units and give special rules that don't really do much. Our rules don't reflect the fluff properly. Why does a Lord-Celestant, the leader of Sigmars reforged demigod-like superhumans, have the same number of wounds as a regular human general? We don't need a total rewrite, but it feels like we are using a 1.0 battletome.

I'm not saying it will be overpowered, it could very well be total rubbish, but it's stupid to make it that easy to summon a 400 point mega wizard monster. Sometimes you just know something is going to be stupid even if it's not the best strategy in the game, like the Harvesters stacking in Bonereapers before the errata, or buying unlimited command points.

9 spells between two armies in one round (when one of them is Tzeentch) isn't hard to do right now, and I don't think it is going to be any more difficult once they allow Acolytes to cast spells and bring Tzeentch up to date with the casting of other armies. I'm not sure why you think units added to your army can't learn spells from a lore, the FAQ is pretty clear that they do get to learn a spell. The summoning restriction isnt that big of a deal since there are other ways to summon those units - the Gaunt Summoner from the Slaves to Darkness battletome comes to mind.

Adding two Lord of Change so easily to your army is guaranteed to be stupid in matched play

This is an interesting topic. Bow Judicators are really poor points per damage (PPD) but they have a good range for a battleline unit so they can sit on objectives and keep throwing out some damage. I think they would still have a niche of double tapping in an Anvils list, especially since my rules limit Longstrikes to 6 per unit - in that situation it seems like 160 is a fair price for them. Crossbow Judicators are surprisingly good if you don't move. They are almost as good as Hurricane Raptors in PPD but theyre battleline. If you reduce their cost then Judicators become better than Hurricanes, and it doesn't seem right for a battleline unit to be more cost effective than a specialized unit. So I'm not sure how to handle that situation. I think the first step would be to split them into two warscrolls; one for bows and one for crossbows. The second step would be to improve them indirectly through useful allegiance abilities and battalions, and I think with my rules Judicators become a pretty good choice in Anvils (double tap with 20 bow judicators), Hallowed Knights (+1/+1 prayer is great on crossbows), Knights-Excelsior (Reroll wounds), Celestial Warbringers (reroll that D6 shockbolt bow), Tempest Lords (retreat + run + charge, reroll wound1), Astral Templars (free move, +1 hit versus MONSTERS, +1 to wound rolls) and the significantly improved battalions. In the end I think Judicators are a "basic" unit like the Liberator. They dont need to be shining stars, they just need to have a niche and not feel like a waste of points.

That was before we had dispel scrolls on a spammable 140p hero When playing Aetherstrike I didn't have any problems with Tzeentch, so I don't expect to have any in the future once they get updated. I think the update with focus heavily on Kairic Acolytes and Tzaangors, neither of which are a problem for us.

Stormcast changes are underwhelming. I might try running the Templar + 6 Desolator block, it would be fun to hit MONSTERs on a 2+ with Astral Templars. I'm also going to try swapping out the 10 Evocators for 6 Dracolines in my Anvilstrike list - the extra mobility and natively rerolling charges seems to be worth losing 8 dice on the lightning blast. Big nerfs to Skaven and Slaanesh make us indirectly better, but I still hope for a new battletome.

GW tried to nerf Hearthguard but now we bring more of them to a matched play game than before v😅v

You can't draw meaningful conclusions from an incredibly biased and small sample size like this, and you should not extrapolate the collected data to the entire game as a whole. I'm not suggesting I have an alternative... I am just saying you should really take any conclusions from The Honest Wargamer with a HUGE grain of salt. They can be a useful data point, but their stats alone don't tell the whole picture. I think Stormcast need a new battletome because most of our units are using 1.0 warscrolls and our allegiance abilities were already out of date when they were released, but that doesn't mean we can't go 5-0 in a tournament setting.

This is a terrible way to judge the state of the game. Stormcast (and Seraphon) are much better than the stats show. The stats should not be taken as objective truth - collected data is not the same thing as a fact.

I think it does, but you should ask your tournament organizer ahead of time and play however they rule it.

I bring 2 Incantors in my list. The main threat from Hallowheart is that it does a lot of AOE damage through Chain Lightning, Luminark attack, Roaming Wildfire, Geminids, Comet, etc.. If you try to castle up youll end up taking 5d3 mortal wounds on the first turn and quickly lose the game. Their spells are far less potent when they only damage single units. All their damage comes from their wizards and for the most part you have a longer shooting range than they have casting range. While they can cast the Spellportal far in the back and use its infinite setup range to cast outside of your dispel scroll range, remember there are other limitations on it: 1. Only one spell per turn can come through the portal, so the damage it can deal is limited. They will usually only deal D3 mortal wounds through the portal. 2. Endless Spells cannot be set up through the portal when initially cast, and any Endless Spells that come through the portal do not immediately do any damage. 3. The wizard has to be near the portal - if they deploy a wizard at the very back out of your range then that wizard is doing almost nothing else in that battle Deployment is key. If you know they have the choice of taking the first turn, make sure you deploy your key units out of range of the majority of their offensive magic. Keep your units spread and focus your shooting on taking down their wizards. Do not engage their Phoenix Guard - let them crawl across the table and do nothing for the first 1 or 2 turns. If you can't deploy such that your Incantors are in unbinding range of all their wizards then you can deploy your Longstrikes in reserve on the first turn and drop them into play. If they have the Everblaze Comet you need to watch where they deploy their Stormcast wizards and make sure your Incantors are within 30" and your Longstrikes are >36" away. This is actually one of the advantages of having so many drops - you can see where your opponent is setting up their units so you can get a perfect counter deployment. If you position properly you can hit their wizards before they cast too many spells and you should be able to win the 5 round game.

1) Same way you play against any other melee army - tie them down with Aetherwings, shoot their key targets with Longstrikes, and counterattack with Evocators/Desolators. If you can keep your melee hammer alive you will win, since their mortal wounds cut through Ironjawz like butter. Ironjawz cant fight first or fight twice and they don't have the durability of DOK, so it's actually easier than a lot of other matchups. Just watch out for their hero phase teleport (use a dispel scroll on this to cripple their mobility) and plan around their chain pile-ins if they wipe a unit. Be sure you tie down their biggest hitters (huge units of ardboyz, gruntas, maw-krushas) with aetherwings so they cant pile in to the rest of your army. 2) If you are playing against any kind of aggressive list that can reach you on turn 1 you should use a castle deployment. Ironjawz, Slaanesh, FEC, Idoneth, etc. If they cant reach you on the first turn you can deploy more aggressively, keeping units in reserve to drop on any objectives they leave open (or you can clear in the hero phase). 3) Yes, Aetherwings move 2d6" with zero restrictions at the start of the opponents charge phase

The errata removes Harvester stacking, huzzah

FAQ is not an errata; it is a clarification of how a rule should be interpreted. The Tzeentch battletome does specify which dice rolls you can replace with Fate Dice: Destiny Dice can be expended to fix the result of any of the following nine types of dice rolls: Casting roll Unbinding roll Run roll Charge roll Hit roll Wound roll Save roll Damage roll Battleshock test The FAQ clarifies that damage is specifically for the damage characteristic of a weapon attack, and does apply to a spell or ability.

I really like the Drakesworn Templar with Desolators to give them +1 hit, especially if you're playing Astral Templars to get another +1 hit against MONSTERS to make Dracoth breath hit on 2+... I just wish the Templar wasn't 460 points

In the Tzeentch FAQ they specify that fate dice can't be used to change the "damage" of a spell: Damage roll (e.g. any roll that determines a Damage characteristic, but not any roll that determines the number of mortal wounds inflicted by a spell or ability) If "damage" was a term applied to abilities and spells, why can't fate dice be used to determine the caused by a spell? This implies that "Damage" is to the Damage characteristic of weapons, and does not apply to spells or abilities.

You're right, they might be a little too cost effective at 120. I am going to raise them to 140p - that should make them a little bit worse than other shooting units in the army, but when shooting against hordes they will be fantastic. With all the new options in the house rules those Stardrakes are definitely going to be worth their points now! Retributors doing 3 damage on their melee attacks means their Blast to Ashes would have to do 3 damage as well, or it would be super weird to roll a 6 and reduce their maximum damage. Hammerstrike Force gives them +1 to wound and charge Devastation Brotherhood can give them +1 attack Hammers of Sigmar (through Vandus) and Celestial Vindicators can give them +1 attack for a phase Hallowed Knights can give them a permanent +1 attack each time a hero dies near them Knights-Excelsior will let you pile in and attack twice, and re-rollable wound rolls Tempest Lords lets them run, retreat, and charge, and reroll wound1 Astral Templars gives them a free 6" move, +1 hit vs MONSTER, +1 to wound rolls, and +2 to charge They're also 3+ save and Rend-2 in this battletome... I think Retributors are looking pretty good now! I think I want to keep Liberators at 100 points and improve them indirectly through battalions, stormhosts, etc. I like the Hammers of Sigmar ability summoning them into play, so I don't want to buff them too much or that ability becomes insane. Compared to their old version Liberators are now improved in a few significant ways: Paired Weapons always give a bonus attack, instead of just on hit rolls of 6 Their battalions (Thunderhead Brotherhood and Vanguard Wing) are much better and worth using It's generally not worth using command points on Liberators, but they get directly improved from being used in Stormhosts The goal isn't to make every unit exceptional for its cost - what matters most to me is the factions strength as a whole, making sure there is a niche for every unit, and creating interesting combinations through stormhosts and battalions.

???

Here's my 2nd pass at the battletome rules: https://imgur.com/a/dHAJdvI I added command traits for Aquilor and made more changes to warscrolls. I decided to take some of the feedback from this thread and changed all Paladins to a 3+ save, but I think Decimators still need to be a little bit cheaper to be a competitive option. I also changed the Castellants lantern to be -1 to wound rolls rather than a 6+ ignore. Let me know what you think! The next pass will have special characters for non-HOS Stormhosts and some changes to the WIZARD artefacts to make them more compelling.

I agree on every point. Crawlers and double harvester blobs are not necessarily overpowered, but they create very negative play experiences. The goal of the game is to make sure both players are having fun and creating statistically immortal units and situations where your opponent cant do anything are not good for the game as a whole.

OBR may not be overpowered, but they have some seriously stupid mechanics that are not fun to play against. Tip #1: Cast endless spells (like a Pendulum) through your Crawlers to weaken them and make it more likely that you can instantly kill models. Then start targeting support heroes, or target the models in the middle of a unit to break coherency and cause half the unit to die at the end of the turn. Tip #2: Put two harvesters inside a block of 40 Guard. Each time a model dies within 3" of both of the harvesters you roll 2 dice and respawn a guard for each 4+. Since the harvester ability activates immediately when a model is slain, and since damage is allocated 1 at a time, on average your unit of guard will take 0 damage when it gets attacked. It doesn't even matter how much damage your opponent can do. With a block of 40 Guard youll have enough models to make the odds of killing the unit (0.25)^40 at best. If you play an army that can't kill the Harvesters then youll almost never kill the guard.

This is a strange rule... My understanding is that "damage" only refers to a weapon attack; abilities that do mortal wounds do not have a damage characteristic.

Seems like Kurnothi