Primes

@Maturin What exactly is your Skyborne List at 1.500 Pts? How would you expand it to 2.000?

Removed some models to keep for my Nurgle army and significantly reduced price. Open for offers.

Hello everyone, I would like to sell my huge Skaven Army to make room for other Projects. Most of the models are build carefully and painted to different stages, some are new on sprue. I have: Leaders Thanquol on Boneripper (with 4 Warpfire Proijectors) (400) Warlock Bombardier (100) Warlock Bombardier (100) Warlock Engineer (100) Warlock Engineer (100) Clawlord (100) Clawlord (100) Clawlord (100) Battleline 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Spear 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blades Units 1 x Ratling Gun (60) (Metal) 1 x Warpfire Thrower (70) (Plastic) 1 x Warpfire Thrower (70) (Plastic) 6 x Stormfiends (520) (everything but Ratling Guns magnetized) 5x Plague Cencer Bearers (80) 2 x Poison Wind Mortars War Machines Doomwheel (160) Doomwheel (160) Warp Lightning Cannon (180) Warp Lightning Cannon (180) Endless Spells / Terrain Bell of Doom (40) Vermintide (40) Warp Lightning Vortex (100) I also have: English Battletome with Hardback, Two Sets of Skaven Dice Gnawholes Custom Bases looking like City Underground for almost the whole army, Some spare Skaven I forgot to list A lot of spare parts. Not counting the Custom Bases (paid 70 €) and OOP Models the whole lot amounts to about 750 € directly from GW. I am looking for 360€ plus Shipping from Germany. I do collect Stormcast, Sylvaneth, Tzeentch and Nurgle and am looking for some individual models for those factions as well. Feel free to offer any other trades.

Hi all, looking to make use of my newly acquired endless spells in a Changehost. Open for Offers!

Wont derail the General discussion but having fly + high Movement is huuuge. Its the difference between hitting a screen and killing what you want to Kill. On the other hand differences in Leadership and Bravery manipulation matter far less than I would like. Also I would always prefer one heavy Hit vs. consistent medicore damage. esp. If I can have three units with this once per game heavy hit. In AOS you seem to want to Kill your target with your first activation. Getting back on point: For me evaluating those nuances with point costs seems very hard. Would Love Insights!

@swarmofsealsI agree with everything you say but dont really get one thing: Why are the discounts on armies who obviously wont get a new book soon so conservative. Mainly thinking of Stormcast and Nurgle. How can a Stardrake be 560 when you compare it to a Verminlord? How can the Prime still be so expensive? Why are Eels 170 and Evos on Dracolines 300? Not speaking of Internal Balance where the Point Changes wont make older units viable but make strong Units weaker. Or are Palladors now worth it? Whats the WDR of Plaguebearers and Plaguedrones? Does a GUO seem a little expensive? Are Blighlords worth it for 200pts? I may Sound salty but I would honestly love to be proven wrong from a mathematical standpoint. Again thanks a lot for your work!

Hello everyone, could someone please post the endless spell heavy list which got 2nd at BOBO (Player is named Dan afaik)? I would also very much appreciate a description of your game plan when piloting such an unusual list. @GwendarYou seem to be planning a similar list. I would love to hear your opinion or first experiences. Thanks a lot!

What do you mean when advising to increase the WLC Damage with a Spark. I was under the impression, that Sparks only increase the damage characteristic of weapons. Something that the WLC and Warpfire are lacking..

I see a disturbing lag of our most glorious invention: Doomwheels. I know they are pretty random but they seem to be a nice distraction and mobility piece in a low model count skryre army?

Thanks a lot! Might be interesting to use against Alpha Strikes although I would prefer using it with a Unit of 6 Stormfiends...Still, taking two of this is still cheaper/as cheap as using our Warpcog Convocation, a great way of reducing drops and giving us two artifacts and two CP instead of only one. List Idea: Three Drops...at least a nice way to use your two boxes of carrion empire before investing too much in other units. Allegiance: Chaos Leaders Warlock Bombardier (100) Warlock Bombardier (100) Warlock Engineer (100) - General Battleline Units 3 x Stormfiends (260) 3 x Stormfiends (260) 10 x Skryre Acolytes (120) War Machines Warp Lightning Cannon (180) Warp Lightning Cannon (180) Doomwheel (160) Doomwheel (160) Battalions Skatchniks Warpcoven (140) Skatchniks Warpcoven (140) Endless Spells Warp Lightning Vortex (100) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 93

Hello all, could someone please tell me what the Carrion Empire Battalion does and what it´s name is? I assume it includes all units featured in the box? Should be legal as Blight War Battalions are as well...

Also, point for point, what is stronger? I´m no Mathhammer genius buy maybe someone has already figured it out: 20 Thunderers with 20 Rifles + Khemist for 560 Pts or 20 Thunderers with mixed weapons, e.g. 8 Rifles, 4 of each Mortars, Decksweepers and Aethercannons and thus rahter high chances of getting the boni for each subsequently used weapon for 400 Pts I feel losing the dependecy on two Khemists could be a viable and futureproof way to go! Here we go, I´ve done the math. Assuming the Champ always uses a Rifle and more or less average rolls for D3s and D6s (weighted toward better results thanks to potential rerolls) we have the following results: Mixed Setup: 18 Rifleshots, 16 Sweepershots, 4 Aethercannonshots and 4 Mortarshots 10,1 Damage vs. 3+, 13,1 Damage vs 4+ and 16,0 Damage vs. 5+ Resulting in 2,54 to 3,99 Damage per 100 Points spent Rifle Setup: 42 Rifleshots 7,4 Damage vs. 3+, 9,9 Damage vs 4+ and 12,2 Damage vs. 5+ Resulting in 1,84 to 3,05 Damage per 100 Points spent Rilfe Setup + Khemist: 62 Rifleshots 10,4 Damage vs. 3+, 13,9 Damage vs 4+ and 17,2 Damage vs. 5+ plus (although he should be out of range) 10,5 Khemist shots 1,8 Damage vs. 3+, 2,2 Damage vs 4+ and 2,6 Damage vs. 5+ Resulting in 1,85 (2,17 with Khemistshots) to 3,07 (3,54 with Khemistshots) Damage per 100 Points spent Sooo, point for point the mixed setup does more damage but at a lower range of 12" instead of 18" (which is quite relevant I think). On the other hand the mixed setup won´t lose effectiveness when the Khemist dies or is used to buff another unit, eg. Endrinriggers.

Hello everyone, I´m not sure if the Navigator is as bad as some make him out to be. Halving movement of flyers is something quite powerful in the current meta, isn´t it? Grimghast move 4" instead of 8, Boingrotz only move 1D6 etc. Reading the warscroll: It seems like two navigators can stack! It says within "the" Navigator, not "any" Navigator. For the price of one Khemist we could reduce the move of flying opponents to 1/4 of its original value. I know, that we would have to roll two 3+ but having two really helps of getting the storm of at least once. Depending on matchup I see some merit for using this cool model. What do you think? Also, @cofaxest, great looking army!

I wouldn´t do it - seems like modeling for advantage, especially since the building instructions are pretty clear.

Thanks for your feedback, really appreciate it! I could also take 9 Prosecutors and a Everblaze Comet or another Unit of Aetherwings and an additional CP. I will try some variations and report back ;) Also I´m feeling that Prosecutors, Libs and maybe even Aquilor/Palladors might get a buff in a potential new battletome. We all know that our internal balance is not perfect. Nothing to bet on but as you said, even if they remain subpar choices at least they are thematic (and still able to not auto-lose in a lot of matches).

This is my variaton of an Anvils List I haven´t seen yet. Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer Leaders Lord-Aquilor (200) - General - Artefact: Soulthief - Mount Trait: Wind Runner Lord-Castellant (100) - Artefact: Soulthief Lord-Relictor (100) Knight-Incantor (140) - Spell: Azyrite Halo Knight-Azyros (100) Battleline 5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1x Grandhammers 5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1x Grandhammers 5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1x Grandhammers Units 12 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (560) 3 x Aetherwings (50) ??? (400) Total: 1950 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 118 Whats your and everyones Opinion on Hurricanes vs. Longstrikes? What I like about the list: - Number of dice rolled is disgusting - Good screening and positioning with aetherwings and free gryph hound is strong against deepstrikes/alpha strikes - Very high mobility - Nice tricks up my sleeve with translocation prayer and Aquilor CA Also I´ve got 400 Points of flexible contetns which I´m not sure aboaut. Right now I´m planning on using 400Pts of Palladors which synergize nicely with the Lord Aquilor, are stronger against high save models and should get to their chosen target assuming two to three salvos of hurricanes are enough to decimate screens. I could also use 12 Prosecutors with Javelins, who are fast, quite tanky (with lantern) and share the woderful 18" range. This would turn my list into a massive hit-and run tactic, which I´m unsure of if I like it. They don´t need the teleportation thanks to fly and 12" move with 3d6 charge. Altough 12 are quite unwidely. They are a great target for another round of herophase shooting Looking forward to your opinions. Thanks a lot!

Oh funny that you ask of Knights speficially. I did try to make them work in several of my last games: My List was some variation of: GUO with Bell Gutrot Lord on Mount Two Sorcerers (Blades and Plague Squall) 10 BK 5 BK 30 PB 5 Knights + 5 Knights OR 10 Knights What I found: - They move pretty damn fast with 10" Basemove, Bell, Run+Charge and +1 to Runs and Charges - Unfortunately they can´t fly and with nearly no way of deleting screens from range had to charge the screen or charge nothing at all - Thats one reason why I prefer the (counter intuitive) split in two units of 5; gives more flexibility; also 10 are quite hard to move around and attack with as they lack fly - On the Charge they do about 8 Wounds with the Lords CA and an additional 6-7MW with Blades - Blades are unreliable and you are not always in range to cast it given their stron movement - If you can´t kill your target with the initial charge you are stuck, dont do a lot of damage and have to retreat or act as an anvil instead of a hammer - They are quite resilient with 15 Wounds, 4+ Save and a 5++ against mortals. If you don´t present jucier targets a spellcasting opponent will have struggle killing them all (not giving good targets includes having PBs and GUO in the opponents face as well); so they are a pretty good anvil against MW heavy armies - The -1 Bravery debuff never mattered but this might change with gloomspite (another fellwater troggoth running should be really nice). You could combine it with appropriate Command Trait and Artifact on Lord for a -4 (or 5?) Bravery Debuff Bubble. Heres an analysis of their damage output; hopefully you can read it. It tells you what weapon does what average damage against what save under what condition. I do have the same analysis for several other units. It disregards movement and resiliency but I feel what nurgle lacks the most is a solid hammer, so I found it quite helpful. Having said that: I´m not sure if the unit is worth it. Drones do the same damage with Locus and more with Locus and GUO Command (and thats compared to charging Knights!) As you are taking a GUO anyways you would save the 140 Points for the Lord on Mount. So 460 (for Lord, 2x5 Knights) vs. 400 (for 2x3 Drones), saving you 60 Points and keeping the same or better offensive output. Defensively they are quite close as well. Footprint is more or less the same. Drones move slower but have fly. Knights are more buffable. If you take a Harbringer of Decay they are very resilient.... Sorry for my unstructured thougts, as you can see I´m not very sure myself. Maybe others can share their experiences.

Your List is not much different than mine (the Post above yours). In my experience Gutrot + 10 Kings is an auto take. It gives flexibility and forces your oponnent to adjust his setup accordingly. Even if the fail their 8+1 Charge in the round they arrive, they give Contagion Points, are a giant threat and I found it very useful to have a hero in enemy backfield for summoning! 30 PB and GUO with Bell seem to be staples as well. I am not sure if 10 Warriors are worth it for Objective Sitting. 5 BK do have one more wound, are offensively stronger and deal more damage...but are only 5 Models. Anyway, switching out the Warriors with 5 BK, would allow you to take a Endless Spell (Geminids, Vortex). You could even switch the Warriors for10 PBs and leave out the Herald (and summoning him T2 or T3) to add another 3 Drones. Magic isnt our strong point anyways. (Thats why Im debating wheter Blades of Putrefaction is worth it) Best regards

Regarding Drones: I reckon they are a staple for our fast mover offensive slot. Assuming a List with 30PB and 10 PB as Anvils, Gutrot Deepstriking 10 BK and a Bell GUO and space for one Wizard of Choice (Blades might be a good idea but is pretty unreliable): Would you run one unit of 6 or two units of 3? Also whats your preferred Locus-Hero? I do like the idea of Slimux but am afraid, that he wont be able to keep up. List I´m thinking of is: Allegiance: Chaos Leaders Great Unclean One (340) - General - Bile Blade and Doomsday Bell - Trait: Pestilent Breath OR Grandfahters Blessing? - Artefact: The Witherstave - Lore of Virulence: Sumptuous Pestilence OR Favored Poxes? Gutrot Spume (140) Horticulous Slimux (220) OR LOA with Rustfang (No Witherstave?) Festus the Leechlord (140) OR a Herald with Favored Poxes? - Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction (Blades worht it? Even when taking 2x3 Drones?) Battleline 30 x Plaguebearers (320) 10 x Plaguebearers (120) 10 x Putrid Blightkings (320) Units 3 x Plague Drones (200) OR 6x PD? 3 x Plague Drones (200) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 147

I´ve converted one knight from a unit of Varanguard. Gave him a spare helmet and scythe from the blightking box and a tentacle arm from the Blightlord Kit. Sorry for bad photo but I really do like the model.

As far as I know and as far as it was discussed on this Forum before: Yes it is - makes this CA an even better choice than I initially thought (although I don´t find most of the other CAs very useful anyway)

Hey everyone, I´m slowly building a semi-competetive Nurgle Force. What do you think of this List: Leaders Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140) - General - Trait: Grandfather's Blessing - Artefact: The Witherstave Gutrot Spume (140) Sorcerer (120) - Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction Sorcerer (120) - Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall Rotigus (340) - Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions Battleline 30 x Plaguebearers (320) 10 x Putrid Blightkings (320) 5 x Putrid Blightkings (160) Units 10 x Chaos Knights (320) - Chaos Glaives Total: 1980 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 162 My thougts: I really like the flexibility and diversity of this list but: - As I am aiming for the Chaos Knights + Lord on Steed Combo as my hammer, shold I invest in tow 10-Man Units of Knights instead of one? - Do I rely on Blades too much? Without Blades the Knights do about 15 Wounds (on the charge with the Lords CA), with Blades they do about 28 - Should I drop Rotigus or the Plaguebearers? I know that Rotigus is probably not super competetive but I like the Hero Sniping Potential he brings combined with Plague Squall and our Wheel. Also he gives easy access to our Wheel-Manipulation Spell and seems to be a great distraction. Looking forward to your Feedback! Thanks a lot

Indeed. Also it gives easy access to two strong Unit Options: Ungor Raiders and Bestigors! Ungor Raiders fulfill three different roles which are rather rare in a Maggotkin Army: - 6" pre-game movement with large footprint is essential against alpha-strikes - Cheap bodies with ranged attacks are great objective holders - Option to Suicide Bomb with 6" pre-game Movement and Battalion Bestigors are a viable hammer unit: For 300 Points we get 60 Attacks 4/3/-1/1 with inbuild run+charge mechanic and +1 to run and charge. Also a nice target for Blades, especially against horde units like Chainrasps/Skeletons/Marauders/Plaguebearers/Whyches... (where they get +1 to hit). Unfortunately BoC Heroes wont get to take Traits, Spells or Artefacts because they are neither Mortal nor Rotbringer or Deamons :(

Isn´t the Portal Ability affecting everything "Khorne" anyway? Regarding Bile Trolls and Plague Ogors I´d say that the Mortal Keyword would really help making them viable...

I would love to but believe it to have the same issue Plaguetouched Warband has. AFAIK both battalions are missing the Nurgle Allegiance and are thus illegal to use in a Maggotkin Allegiance - which I strongly believe is a not intended result of the FAQ but I am now rules writer and so will follow RAW. If the Battalion was legal, I would play it in fluffy games as a way to include a 30-Man-Unit of very strong Bestigors as Hammers and two min size Units of Ungors to increase my bodycount and to benefit from their explosions. Also would add a Shaman for magic support and as he or another hero is necessary for the Battalion. This would amount to about 1/4 of our army, leaving plenty of room for other goodies. I would love for beastment (and troggoth and ogors) to have the mortal keyword as they are in fact mortal and not daemons? This would make the choice more tempting for competetive play. But maybe this might even be too strong.