Kaleb Daark

nay nay.. she looks awesome. Neave Blacktalon can keep her armoured sportsbra, this girl looks incredible. ?

looking really good- the magic seems interesting, looking forward to learning more.

So word for word; USE ALL OF YOUR HEROES COMMAND ABILITIES CANT SHOOT OUT OF COMBAT ANYMORE does this mean that units engaged in melee can't shoot? looking forward to learning more.

the last ancestors of the bretcast - love them

Female tattooed liberator = ? Boobplate = ?? She could actually get me into the golden boys! The undead look really good, and I like the knight of shroud aesthetic carrying through

This would be a great thing to happen. they should have just released the 9th ed rulebook as the legends rules just like fw did with the age of darkness rules.

no. its not about the kool-aid, its about facing the reality of what GW are doing as a business. For the record I loved my fantasy battle, I wanted to do brets and TKs as the next thing after my chaos. I was robbed of both of those. I have two forgeworld mammoths and a ton of other stuff which is no longer usable going back to 1st ed. I still proxy them for things in my current armies, but when it comes to things like dogs of war and the like, well, I'm kinda stuffed. So yes, its a concept that I can work with you on. Those guys with their competitive game mentality are actually my friends, and all I'm saying is that they love the cutting edge game, and I'm more of a campaign and narrative kinda guy. hardly the " how dare they like a competitive game mentality as you put it". To paraphrase the above post - GW want you to spend money - its how they make their money. GW would prefer you to buy new plague bearers when they release them instead of using your vintage ones GW are giving you a battletome for the dark elf armies of fantasy because as you've rightly worked out, they want to cut all the old stuff loose and move on to whatever they got planned. How you choose to use it is your bag, but they won't be supporting you in any way as they got new stuff to be getting on with. I done my raging when AoS hit, I had all of these arguments / debates like many of us did with the store manager giving it the full WTF. We heard nothing for six months and then this game with no points and some wierd fluff lands. More WTF. Old RPG dudes could get their head around it but everyone else struggled. Not much WTFing from me but truck loads from my tournament playing friends. When we finished WTF-ing we realised that GW were not interested in WTF-ers, who as far as they were concerned could just do one if that was the attitude. KIrby got pushed out, Rowntree climbed to take the driving seat and then they suddenly we had a new face and new attitude. I stopped WTFing and jumped on the bus for the ride, and to be honest its been ok. Do I go out and buy everything? -nah. I'm too poor and too picky for that, and if I see one more overpriced hero in a prancing knee up in the air pose like they've all been to ballet school I'll scream. Do I like everything they're doing, of course not, but compared to what they were, and where they were even you must surely be able to admit that we as a community are in a better place. Dude, nothing is perfect nor will it be. But that's life and really, I've got way more things to get super stressed about than pushing toy soldiers around, as much as I hate the fact that I can't mark my mammoths or skin wolves or that my slaves to darkness cant cut a slice of cheese effectively. but yea.. i get what you're saying, I'll work with you a little on this one.

I'm totally behind you on this - apparently it (Tomb Kings) keeps getting brought up at the managers meetings and that's the default response at this time.

Simply put it's this... GW always said on the eve of AoS's release that nobody would find their army redundant from fantasy. What they were saying was, there's a new system coming - but you'll be equipped with all the tools you need to play that new system in the form of the compendiums. They also said that although these old world armies could be played and were current, they would receive no more support or updates. New factions would rise in the new game world with new lore and models. This was already hinted at in the aesthetic of the last wave of models the year or two before AoS released - a very different look and feel and all leading up to end times. It would only be a matter of time before GW stopped playing lip service to players with older armies such as Tomb Kings, Brets, empire etc, both at events and within the literature. Unfortunately there comes a time when it's time to move on. They're a business and they need to sell models. There is no value in it for them if dude on forum is still smashing on about his 10,000 point bret army being nerfed but in reality hasn't put a penny in their till for over ten years. They are not only a game system but also a model supplier and manufacturer, they need their public to be on board with both. Sadly its hard for most of us to swallow especially as long time fantasy battle players but that's the way it is. trust me, I've got two forgeworld war mammoths and the thought that FW / GW will decide to pull the plug on their warscrolls / points is something I'm dreading. With regards to FW and heresy slowing down, not the case. They really just have too much to get on with at the moment, and with Alan Bligh passing away the mantle of Mr Heresy is a difficult and massive one to fill with such passion and knowledge. Also, they could never have predicted how much it would take off. Remember although they are a part of GW their remit and capability is massively reduced compared to the main business. They are no different to an elite car manufacturer's bespoke division where your output is tin compared to the parent, but your product commands a much higher boutique price. And so it is with Forgeworld. Heresy was always nice until the prospero and calth box sets, it saw a flood of new blood, but at it's heart it's still a massively expensive undertaking by the time you throw in vehicles etc. But back to the topic of this thread. The way I see legends is the final salute to the old game systems' armies from GW. You get a proper battletome immortalising the army for one last time. After that, it goes to where it's rightful rresting place is - in the legend that was the old world. No points? We all know what cheese and filth is deep down, and what good friendly play is. You know when you're being that guy and you know when you're not that guy. I think this is easier for old school RPG dudes to get behind than the one combo to rule them guys. I also believe that if you're into cutting edge meta, tournament slaughter lists and win at all costs, then legends really isn't for you. I am not one of those guys, I'm a self confessed story stinker to to use the garagehammer term. But my local store is now full of WAAC players and filth farmers. It's not about anything other than will it win at a tournament. On the plus side it's those same guys who will pour money in the till like water out of a tap to ensure a winning army. Tombkings - the general consensus up at the mothership seems to be that they will bring nothing back by bringing them back. So as of now, they're very dead. However never say never. Personally I liked them- I always liked how they were a skeleton army without wraiths and zombies etc. The constructs were also very cool. AoS is evolving. June is it's third birthday and you can be sure that by the year end we'll see cool stuff and finally say goodbye for good to some old stuff. They've done it before many times and they'll do it again. Just remember that as much as GW love you, they need you to keep spending, that's your side of the bargain. As a final note, we should bear in mind that had Kirby still been CEO, you'd have none of this, no community pages, no sneaky peeks, no nod to the past. You'd have just been told "this is the new... deal with it".

I wonder if some brets and TKs will resurface for a final last chance to buy (and sell out in ten minutes flat!)?

@Kyriakin i missed this, please could you expand on what ‘legends’ is?

They can and they will. There will be no new units for brets or tks. The best you can hope for is that there will be a new faction that makes use of these models but rest assured they wint be brets or tks as we know them. i imagine gw actually gave a difficult time working out what to do with their basic humans. If it were me, i think we have two really nice opposites, the technology humans in the form of the eld empire stuff and the mystical humans. i was thinking take brets out of the rigid medieval knight mould and perhaps put them more into a darker narnia style mash up. Centaur allies and lords on dragons, and instead of all that lady stuff, they place their faith in druids. their usp could be monsters in place of technology. If they were in the realm of shadows then they might also be mortal enemies if the fimir and daughters. or something like that.

I probably didn't explain it very well, sorry. Cast your mind back to the painful birth of AoS during the age of Kirby ; GW released the compendiums and in the AoS QandA's they said that "all existing armies would be playable in AoS" because of course each one had a compendium. They also said however that there would be no more support for the old armies, as the new armies and factions would start to come in. And in truth we've seen this in as much that yes the compendiums still exist but as of ghb X there was no longer competitive points or viability for this or that compendium. To draw a parallel GW did nothing more than what Microsoft did with XP, continuing to support it until quite late in the day and then finally saying look, we've got a business to run, get with the program. I totally agree with you in the second paragraph. It's going to be sales that do the talking, as well as stuff that just doesn't 'fit' anymore. And in many ways that's an ever evolving storyline for you, stuff happens and things change and sometimes cataclysmically. But yes, I too believe the drive by cullings can and will happen.

I'ts exactly what and how it happened to the Dogs of war. A gentle phasing out where ultimately they wait till the buying public lost interest and thus they disappear from the website quietly with not many people really caring at the time. We need to remember that the promise was that no old army would become obsolete from the world that was, only that they wouldn't get supported as time went by and new factions and story lines opened up. Also, we are looking at a new modelling dynamic and design language as well, which naturally will make older stuff seem a bit staid and boring, after all they were all designed to rank easily. remember how much complaining when blightkings and the khorne farmers in their armoured dungarees came out about how they wouldn't rank on 25mm bases and 40 was rubbish for infantry. We've all got those lovely old models which no longer are part of the game, sad as it is. Like you say, until there is a reason to resurrect the line stays dead. Who knows with enough pestering you might see sandy skeletons back. Look at sisters of battle. I know that the TK thing has bee brought back to the table at the head office so many times but each time its very much a case of "other than the constructs what do they bring to the table?" Like you say Rogue, they'll always be there, in the lore and as a narrative medium.

the joy of poses that don't having to worry about ranking up Aquastorm sounds like a washing product, is this the idoneth laundry department?

where did the helmets come from for the two outside dudes @Nacnudllah ?

Are there freelance opportunities? honestly, i think this is great. the fact that gw are here, amongst us, asking these questions is something which was just unimaginable in the age of kirby. This is just going to reinforce why gw sits at the top of the industry. all i need is them to buy into my aos brets idea!!! Lets sit back and actually take stock of what that initial post is actually saying to us as a community

I've got no problem with a subscription Ben.

no. you've jumped too soon on this one. I didn't say the voice was Be'lakor. I believe that to be neferata as it mentions dragging him into the realm of death and nagash far too often. I was saying that the realm of shadow storyline could be a way of re-introducing the dark master's involvement into the AoS landscape that was all.

shadow could also mean Belakor, the whole waiting and manipulating events from the shadows has his name all over it.

How about tomb kings coming back in another form? setra was ressirected by the chaos gods at the end of end times.. technically he’s owned by them now and of course he hates nagash. now theres a story arc that was left open that’ll never happen.

Well she's wearing a hell of a lot more than the bloke she's bossing around. i think the beauty of AoS is that there are enough realms and planes and worlds to make whatever style you want co-exist, steampunk dwarfs, grim dark grit, flamboyant gilded chaos, large pantaloon Germanic gothic, it's all possible and it's all there.

If they produced that, a subversive rumour might start that brets were coming back

lovely smooth blending on your stuff, I'm really envious. Criticism.. it's too good, there's very little to criticise! LIke... here's what I like, and I think your comment about red nmm nails it. You use your eyes and it shows in your painting, where you understand that light and shade isn't one colour but many colours and a colour will react and be affected by the colour next to it. Once you understand that, and you do, your painting walks up a level without even trying. I'm really looking forward to seeing more.