Kaleb Daark

Thats my boy

Exactly this. In the past I've seen many similar things, and you're quite right. An honest opinion, for example "The rules / models / content let this otherwise what should be a great product down, and for a company with so much resource I struggle to see why this has been allowed to go into production, I for one won't be rushing to buy a copy" is a very different thing to using GW's brand and reputation to push some other agenda. For example, in the most extreme case, you have a pepe the frog example with an extremist faction takes on say the Astartes as it's poster child as an example of it's ideology on a particular racial or religious purity viewpoint. Were this to happen, for GW to undo that taint will be nigh on impossible to repair without massive investment and time once it gains momentum - all of which will murder profit in the mean time. It's extreme as an example I know, but I've read it as "say what you want in the review but don't drag our name into or by association with anything sordid, defamatory, contentious or otherwise to do with anything outside of giving your thoughts on the product itself". Even our old work contracts had similar clause in them - you kick off say in a bar or public place or on a public platform whilst in your uniform and you're fired, as by association the business, not the individual are tarred with the viewpoint or action. We also had staff in the past spouting hate talk on their social media, only to find that they were out of a job the following week, as someone had retweeted their thoughts and mentioned who they worked for. Easiest thing was to issue a statement saying that sort of opinion or action wasn't tolerated and the said perpetrator was no longer an employee as a result. They're protecting their name, and it's all legal jargon, that always sounds scary. bottom line on stuff like this is that if you're doing everything above board, then there's nothing to fear and it doesn't change anything. Keep calm, roll dice and carry on.

Very true. As I say, John Hayden the area manager drives (enforces his) culture of the stores in our locality. Way back when, I was in that store painting, and I over heard him having a go at the store manager about me, not even having the curtesy to close the door to the back of the store. It was along the lines of "what's he doing here, why did you allow it, just get rid of him, those tables are for recruiting " etc. etc. He tried to tell him that me painting and hobbying in that store was the difference between me going to the indipendent retailer down the road and getting the product for 25% less and coming in that shop and paying full whack. - that and I was one of his best customers. John wasn't having it. While they were still thrashing it out I just packed my stuff up and left. The other guy behind the till was mortified. I got my three boxes of skullcrushers refunded and left. After that I used to get a text heads up "Don't come in today unless you're buying and leaving - John's in the shop". It's tools like Hayden that make me really not have a problem with not giving GW my money. He's hardly great PR material. I do have to thank him in many ways as in that day's events, he made me go into the independent retailer and I dropped nearly 300 on x-wing stuff as the group that were in there invited me to join them and I enjoyed it so much that I thought stuff it, I'll get a great big bundle right now.

The policy is quite strict and in fairness the manager spent a lot of time with the kid to educate him on what to look for and how to do the ebay dispute wording. He even went as far as telling him that if he saw anything on the bay to come in and he'd look it over with him to make sure it was what it was being described as. He (the manager) was also fighting with one hand tied behind his back. It's policy as Zappgrot says, and to add to that, the area manager John hayden really hates in store gaming. He's an advocate that the only people in store should be customers spending and the only activity should be intro paint and games. He hates 'regulars' and 'veterans' using the stores to play games and things like gaming nights as he sees them as non productive. basically just come into store to stock up and then clear off.

I'll take you back even earlier to the dawn of 3rd edition and slaves to darkness. There was a table you could roll off to see what race your general or hero was - anything could fall to chaos so you could have for instance an elf or an orc as your general with his gifts and boons from the gods. In the old lore a chaos warrior was the equivalent of a space marine, that could decimate on his own what a band of twenty would take otherwise. I think GW has taken the stance that you're either a disciple of the god specific faction or you're just a human that doesn't worship Sigmar and that makes you a slave to darkness. Chaos armour isn't really all that anymore, just heavy plate by any other name. People wanted a human faction that wasn't all about big trousers and stupid feathers and we got it in the form of slaves. Easier than giving us back the brets, after all that would have been a daft idea. Nope, a bunch of human non sigmarite fruitloops from each of the realms all wanting a job in the big citadel at the centre of the grand travel hub is where its at.

Interestingly I saw exactly this a couple of years ago. He was a young kid who bought an army off of the bay and it was sold as a warhammer GW army. It was all third party. poor kid wanted to play in a GW store and the manager flatly said no. Kid was totally innocent, when they questioned the seller he came back with " well, you can use it in warhammer". I've read the Chapterhouse transcript many times and it boils down to this... Whether GW makes a model or not, they own the intellectual property of their universe and game world. So if someone wanted to say make a cogfort for Cities of Sigmar freeguilds in AoS and tried to sell it as such they ultimately incur the wrath of GW. In the same way that some third party reads in some old fiction about the TIE 'coffeetub' fighter and decides to dream it up and make a toy of this new TIE fighter variant and market the model as such and not expect Disney to lose its s**t over it. Whether it exists in the lore or not, it's not his property to make and sell and get a profit from. This has also been prevalent with old models such as the company making the Kholek Suneater Model from the Total war artwork and selling it as such. GW abandoned it's licensing model for minis ages ago - we're talking over 20 years ago, in the ancient days we had Nick Lund's Chronicle range and the Marauder Miniatures, whose sculptors were sold under the citadel umbrella and marketed in store and in the white dwarf. For this to work as a legal entity, then lets say Chapterhouse would have gone to GW and said I want to make bits for your models. Agreed a sum for the licence and then allwed to use the trademark under licence in that capacity. It's what BanDai have done. They pay GW for the right to make those dolls - they have identified a revenue potential that far outweighs what they pay GW for the right to bang those out, and in turn GW will supply them with CAD data etc. it's the same with fantasy flight games - they pay for the privilege to use all those licences that allows X-Wing and Crisis Protocol to exist. I've been on the other side of it, dealing with the third party company who wanted to make a model of our product and understanding that they payed hard cash to use our brand and our data. We used to have companies coming to us to make a toy or model of our car or to use it in a computer game. Sure we'd say, it costs this much and these are the conditions. If you're happy, sign there and we'll help you with cad data, and technical info, media etc. Our business used to have the "web police" who would trawl ebay and the internerd for things being sold in our name that were anything but and then hand them to legal to serve cease and desist paperwork, so I do understand it. As has been said above, there's a big difference between someone selling pumpkin riding goblin and putting in the header the keywords that make it come up in every GW related search, and leaving that out and maybe putting in the description that the model is not a GW model but in independent gaming events could be substituted for the following faction model as there are similarities, although not categorically a GW model or endorsed by GW in any way. Read that as you will, and whether that would be enough to satisfy the great rumbling machine, who knows. The whole not for commercial use tag is a bit lazy, the seller grabbed it from the document that was doing the rounds to do with fan art, where they (GW) mentioned that it was ok providing there was no commercial gain. IE. you're drawing a space marine because you want to , and enjoy doing so, but aren't selling the artwork for profit. This sort of thing always ends messy, nobody backs down when you just ask them politely- it's the way it is. GW could open up its licensing revenue stream, but policing it would have to be very tight and controlled, and most of the time Nottingham struggles to really understand which foot is which at times, and who is responsible for what. they've made tentative strides with bandai, funko and marvel comics, but it's highly unlikely that they will do it for the likes of the third party gun barrel and tank track makers. In pumpkin goblin example, they're really saying, call it what you will, but it isn't one of our models, we don't profit from it, recognise or endorse it, or want anything to do with it by association or implication so don't you dare try and rope our name and brand and games into making it easier for you to sell.

The bret lords of Wateray Bint, that's who.

not spider... that's already out there. Spydherkynd if you don't mind... and they got six and a half legs.

Anyway, chaos dwarfs are for beginners you wait till we start on about brets and tombkings

I totally agree. we have the blood rain, eight points, eight legs i totally agree with you that we’re getting khorne mechanised spider golem riding chaos dwarfs. im loving it.. keep em coming. 👍

My guess whatever they are it’ll set you back 125 bones to find out.

Once upon a time at the dawn of 3rd ed they did

no, they're becoming shorter and angrier I'm telt ya.

chaos goat minotaur dwarfs.. awesome!!! Jokes aside, I'd love to say I couldn't see that coming, but its been on the cards for a long time.

I don't like to say anything negative but No. If anyone should get heffalumps it should be the slaves to darkness who had our loverly war mammoth taken away from us by the evil ones. A bigger badderer plastic war mammoth is the least they could do.. age of the beast and all that, and it would work out nice as I'd buy two to flank my chaos lord on huge dragon that also got taken away and needs to come out in plastic. If they do that, I promise never to throw them down the toilet and allow them to kill turtles in the ocean.

you mean Hippoleth blubberkin right?

Could be a very fashionable chaos dwarf with a daemon crossbow .. just sayin..

Not as thrilled as I’d be- especially if they were a bunch if 8 pointed star pyromaniac loonytunes

Thank you for clearing that up. Up until now I’ve struggled to know the difference of each of the above. apologies for the not rumour / nothing / stirring / false rumour.

Well.. i was in this tavern see, and there was this fella looking for adventurers. He telt me so it must be true. Dude.. its the rumour thread not the news thread.

Next slaves to darkness battletome will have a new chaos dragon model with build options for each if the god specific factions. age if the beast will unleash more dragony goodness (or chaosness) onto the mortal realms.

Where’s the s2d warscroll hidden?

Given he’s now out of production I can’t see it. knowing them and their well documented in the posts above attention to detail, id say it slipped through the net. much like my 400 quid which they would have had if they’d have given me a last chance to buy heads up. not that I’m sore about it or anything!

Now that is poor. Are we seeing GW returning to the Kirby days of might makes right I wonder.

they could have got a willing subscriber base if they just populated it with all the old fantasy rules and armybooks for a start. leaving the animation aside, you mean to tell me that the amount of printed media they have couldn’t have all been uploaded prior to launch? I know it’s in its birthing period but from what I saw at launch I’d like an early adopter sweetner really. And as has been said, no fullscreen on animations and when disney are charging me not much more, I have some pretty high benchmarks for my 50 pounds. I feel that many of the simple errors could all have been ironed out before launch and it makes them look unnecessarily amateur in their execution sadly. It’s going to be interesting to see how they push this moving forward. It’s bold and also potentially very very arrogant.