swarmofseals

please die.

Yeah, I have a feeling these guys are going to look amazing but be really hard to play with.

Only if you are willing to accept an adults only rating XD

Can you even imagine a Chaos, Skaven or Death themed AOS game in the style of Dungeon Keeper? It could be incredible. With Skaven you could even go with the Dungeon Keeper style humor.

only one per slann. Used to be the other way but now it's 1 spell per.

@Firefrog I think part of the problem is that all three of your armies are going to struggle with some version of Seraphon. That Skaven army is going to be hopeless against Coalesced because basically everything is going to be losing damage. It might have a bit more play against Starborne. FEC lists are going to be pretty bad against Coalesced, but I could see Blisterskin doing OK as their bravery will always be poor and Crypt Flayers won't be losing damage. Tzeentch is harder to say, but the difficulties you pointed out are noteworthy. Starborne can get around your teleportation shenanigans and smash you with deepstriking salamanders, and Coalesced has double shooting Bastiladons and takes away damage from your flamers. Against the specific list that you posted, I'd probably try to kill the Salamanders at range (they can't teleport and they can't run and shoot in that list, so their threat range is pretty small. Also in Coalesced they are VERY vulnerable to battleshock, and that list doesn't have many heroes to babysit them. After that just ignore the Bastiladons and kill Skinks. I think the key against that list is to kill his bodies and just win with VPs. Yes the Bastiladons will kill a lot, but Tzeentch can put so many wounds on the table that it probably doesn't matter in most battleplans. I'm not sure that this would even be very interesting or fun, but you could do something like: Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch 5x Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch 3x10 Kairic Acolytes Chaos Spawn Fatesworn Warband You are 1 drop so you will always have the option to go first and vomit 60 pink horrors onto the table. You won't kill much but you start out outnumbering him and there is very little he can do to change that. Even if he spends 2CP each and every turn to double shoot both Bastiladons, you probably won't even run out of pinks until the end of turn 3, and at that point you now outnumber him vastly. You also have 12 spells per turn (21 once you account for the horrors and acolytes), so you're going to get some magic through. With Eternal Conflagration you can actually whittle down his Skinks and Salamanders pretty easily. With Kroak he will have a good amount of CP, but double Bastiladon is extremely CP hungry. If you're forcing him to use Inspiring Presence to save Salamanders as well his CP will be very, very strained. He will have a hard time killing your heroes with his Bastiladons as they will be somewhere between -1 and -3 to hit. And with that many spells (plus Kroak) you are probably going to get a lot of summoning points yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if you could add another 10-20 pinks to the table over the course of the game. In fact, I suspect this kind of build will be good against most Seraphon lists unless he really goes wild with Skinks.

@GeneralZero Mierce has some gorgeous stuff. Kinda kicking myself for not ordering one of those Ettenwihts during their monster 50% off promo.

I know this is hardly a discussion for the rumor thread, but one has to consider the issue of logistics. High volume of fire is nice, but you still have to have access to the arrows (a non-trivial question particularly when on campaign or a situation with restricted supply like a siege.) Carting around loads of arrows is already a challenge, and increasing rate of fire means you need to carry around even more arrows to sustain fire over the same length of time. The cartridges themselves also add extra weight and bulk, not to mention adding weight to the bow itself when loaded. There's also the problem of mechanical complexity. A regular bow is a pretty reliable weapon, but any extra complexity also increases the risk of failure.

Ahh, but that's where you go wrong: assuming Lumineth will release this year >< Too soon?

DOMA! DOMA DOMA DOMA!

I've found solegends to be a fantastic resource for identifying and researching older miniatures, but I'm looking for a resource that can fill a similar role for the late WHFB era. Solegend's citadel catalogs only go through 2010 or so. Do any of you know of any sites that have comprehensive lists of all the kits that were released from 2010 through the end of WHFB? Even single faction lists would be very helpful.

I think we can fully confirm that this particular aelf is compensating for something.

I'm seeing some folks suggesting that this latest Lumineth model is the last reveal for the "current" release and we won't see more for at least a year or two, while others are suggesting that there may be more kits coming. Is any of this evidence based or is it all speculation?

@Baron Klatz Vince's army is stunning, although it bothers me inordinately that he didn't file off the chaos star on the gryphon claws.

Another draft double toad list: This one is pretty similar to the last one, but it's more purely into the delaying game. I'm forgoing a bit of offense to pursue a strategy of slowing the opponent down with loads of Skinks and eventually wearing them out with spells and the salamanders. I imagine I'll basically never get the turn choice, but I'm fine with that (I think). If they give me the first turn I can put my Skinks exactly where I want them and delay/deny area while getting ahead on points. If I go second I'll probably have less of a head start on points and may need to clear some objectives with the salamanders, but I have a shot at a double turn which should be quite effective. It also means my first turn's spells are likely to be a lot more effective. Going for 7x10 Skinks instead of 3x20 and 1x10 may seem counter-intuitive, but I'm trying to minimize the number of casualties opponents cause with each activation. A unit of 'ardboys is going to kill 10 or 20 Skinks in one go just the same, so I'd rather them kill 10 even if it means fewer wounds from the blowpipes. Deepkin could be a real slog though.

@Cid you're definitely missing something. Nagash has showed up in very competitive lists recently (albeit largely in an OBR shell). It's my understanding that these lists aren't just something that you can point and click with, but take some practice to learn. Just remember that in Petrifex Elite he has a built in 2+ save and rerolls 1's with his own command ability, a 6+ shrug and a 4+ mortal wound shrug on top of that. AND he has significant self healing. He's incredibly difficult to kill. Does he do enough damage to justify his points cost? Probably not. With realm spells in effect in particular he can do a lot of work -- 8 spells at +3 to cast is very strong. He won't do as much raw damage as spending the points on more clear-cut offense focused units though. Remember though: AOS is about objectives, not tabling the opponent.

Honestly if you don't have much I probably wouldn't pursue either faction unless you have a lot of disposable income and are mostly in it for the hobby. Both are fantastic model ranges, but old school chaos dwarfs are really expensive due to rarity and current chaos dwarfs (Legion of Azgorh) are expensive because they are Forgeworld. Tomb Kings have been OOP for quite some time and demand a premium price too, particularly for the more recent kits. Both factions also lack true rules support. Tomb Kings are especially precarious and will likely be shunted over into Warhammer Legends status, although who knows what will happen with Warhammer: Old World in a few years. Legion of Azgorh is theoretically still supported but we've seen models dropped from the FW store and their "battletome" is vestigial at best. There's a lot more uniqueness in the current AOS lineup than there was in the past as GW has been pushing new factions into more unconventional territory. I'd suggest giving the current ranges a good look and see if anything strikes your fancy!

@zoso87 it seems like you're going for a Thunderquake battalion but I don't think you've paid for it? I'd for sure start by dropping the Terradon Riders and picking up the battalion.

First and foremost I want to echo what others have said: Internalize the fact that the game is about objectives first and fighting second. This is probably the biggest place new players go wrong. Learn the ins and outs of movement and model placement including screening, piling in, area denial etc. Learn the battleplan you are playing and adapt your play to the needs of the situation (ie: the combination of the battleplan, your army's capabilities and your opponent's army's capabilities). I'd also add the following: Get comfortable with the basic math. Know the average amount of damage you can expect your units to deal and to take. If you can, try to know the standard deviations too so that when you need a specific outcome you know roughly how likely it is. Know the probabilities for 2d6 dice rolls. Have a plan, but don't get too specific. You need to adapt to the situation, and if you get tunnel vision you will be more likely to lose. Correctly assess the level of threat that enemy units present and prioritize them accordingly. Build good lists. There's a lot that goes into this, such as understanding the costs and benefits of adding or subtracting from your drop count, developing a list that can compete against a range of opponents in a range of battleplans, and effectively analyzing which units are good and which aren't. Efficiency matters a lot, but it isn't everything. Inefficient units can be good sometimes, but super inefficient units are very rarely good. Similarly, high efficiency units are very often good, but you can't just completely build your list around efficiency (well, sometimes you can but generally it's not the best path). An add-on to number 4: know the purpose of the list you are building and know your skill level. An easy to play, high variance list is good in a tournament if you aren't a great player. If you are a good to great player though then you want a lower variance army. Understand that for your own units dying can be as important as killing. Destroying enemy units can be great, but if it leads to your own valuable unit being destroyed in return you might not gain much. But if you can delay an expensive unit using a very cheap one as a sacrifice, that is likely to be a favorable exchange for you.

Oooh that's a nice feature! much more doable to find 1-1.5 hour stretches.

Hmm OK. Gonna be tough to find that kind of time in one stretch ><

Oof, so like 3-5 hours per game?

How long does a typical TTS game take? and do you pretty much need to play beginning to end in one go or is it more asynchronous?

Ahh OK, I would definitely take a different approach then. The carnosaurs are actually not as killy as you'd think, and your saurus and knight units are too small to really have an impact. All your damage is also relatively low rend, and the Bastiladons are going to eat up CP like candy. If you want a monster focused list, I'd go the Thunderquake route instead with a Stegadon with Skink Chief, a full unit of Salamander Hunting Pack, a regular Stegadon and then either a second regular Stegadon or a Bastiladon. Then you can fill out from there with some Skinks or Saurus Warriors for bodies, a Skink Priest, perhaps and Engine of the Gods, etc. Your list is pretty close to where I ended up, although I'm still not convinced that you can take a Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur as part of the Sunclaw Temple-host. I know the rules say to disregard subheaders -- but that is qualified with "unless it has a seperate entry". As far as I can tell it's never explained what an "entry" is, but if it means either warscroll or separate line in the pitched battle profiles then either way the carnosaur version wouldn't qualify. I kinda think that it's not intended to allow you to take a carnosaur because otherwise why not just use the keyword (like with firelance) instead of the warscroll title. The only effect that using the non-bolded Oldblood would have would be to potentially disallow the carnosaur version. It'd be great if we can take the mounted one, though. Aside from that I'm also not convinced about Kroak in a Coalesced list. Without the teleport balewind is unwieldy (and not in your list), and the astrolith also loses a little bit of value. You'll also want to use the +1 run/charge asterism more often, and I just don't know how effective Kroak will be without the support. The rough list I put together last night looked something like this: I think this list is likely pretty solid, but I dislike the fact that it's 7 drops. It would be easy enough to trim down to 6, but I don't see how you go down to 5 or 4 without losing a lot. EDIT: just wanted to clarify my reasons for going up to 40 size blocks -- it's points efficient, but more importantly I think it will allow your blocks to weather a serious attack while still retaining power to hit back effectively. 20 Saurus spears fully buffed will deal an average of 12.38 mortal wounds, 27.33 rend 0 wounds and 16.67 rend 1 wounds. At 14 models it drops way down to 6.38 mw, 10 r0 and 11.65 r1. Take a couple of typical examples of big units that are likely to charge a saurus block. A typical buffed up Megaboss on Maw-Krusha will kill about 17 saurus on average. With the Warchanter buff on top that goes up to 25. In either case a block of 30 is very likely to drop under that 15 count threshold while a block of 40 has an excellent chance to stay over it in the first case and a conflip to stay over in the second. A 15+ block of Saurus has a really good chance of killing the megaboss on the return attack while <14 is much less likely to get the job done. 9 Morsarr Guard charging in will kill something like 20 saurus on average. Enough to cripple a unit of 30, but a unit of 40 will get to smash back much more effectively. Overall I think for a slower army like this being able to hit hard back after taking a hit is hugely important. Most elite attackers are not defensively efficient enough to absorb a hit from another elite attacker in a cost effective way. They either get crippled by the attack, or they are expensive enough that the enemy has "won" the engagement anyway even if they get destroyed on the counter-attack. Saurus are one of the few units that can break that by both being really effective attackers and defensively efficient enough to absorb a big hit in a cost effective way.

And here's another list concept. Not sure how strong it is but I could see it having potential. The list clocks in at 4 drops so it should compete for the first turn a lot of the time. You basically have two opportunities for a turn 1 charge, either through using the Skink Priest on the Terradon Riders for run+charge or the Skink Starseer on either a Knights unit or the Terradon Riders. You have three convincing hammer units, although if the opponent manages to kill off the Skink Starpriest your ability to deal with armor craters. You've also got 50 points left over for an extra CP. I suspect that it might be just better to go Thunder Lizard and grab a Thunderquake Temple-Host instead of the starlance, but I think this list might be a good way to put a mix of saurus and skink units on the table in a way that is mutually reinforcing. There are two clear advantages vs. Thunderquake - you get more bodies on the board by a margin and you can fit all 3 skink buffers in the list.