Ganigumo

Yes it affects our Daemon heroes, its a nice bonus but the only Tzeentch Daemon Hero that wants to be in melee is a Daemon Prince, useful to have if one of our other heroes gets stuck in somehow though.

That slaangor profile is nuts, Can't wait to see what a unit of them is going to be capable of.

Yeah escort wing fits what I've picked up so far (Aether war I bought for the Tzeentch half, the warcry box, and the new battleforce) and I'd like to run some skywardens even if they aren't optimal. I've got 5 thunderers at the moment so I was considering sticking them into a gunhauler with the endrinwork. I was planning on building 12 wardens and 3 riggers with what I've got so that'll fit nicely into sizes that can hitch rides. I havent quite decided on how to finish off the list just yet though, i'll need something to put into the frigate(probably Arko?) but I need to figure out which port I want to run. Thryng would let me pull in some other dwarves and gives a fight on death, Urbaz would let my wardens take aether gold if I wanted and Zon buffs skywardens directly. I think I'm leaning towards Urbaz at the moment though.

I'm new to KO and was wondering what loadouts people like on units. For skywardens 1x skyhook and max out pikes seems to be the best option. Thunderers looks like max out on aethercannons and decksweepers, and only bring the mortar and fumigator in large units. I've got no idea for riggers though, the pistols seem pretty good, and the saws are great but the long range guns seem good too

Entirely new battalions would be cool, but skitterstrand nest is pretty good as is. It wouldn't be awful if the spider rider skitterswarm isn't changed either, as long as the subfaction or superbattalion buff spider riders appropriately.

Bloodtoofs CA is basically a tax but their other abilities are solid. +1 charge means ardboys charging +4 and brutes/pigs charging +2. I think the real value is in the artifact though, with wizards being as powerful as they are now its hard for us to use magic against an army with strong magic. The bloodtoofs artifact gives us the option of not playing that game by leaving the wizard at home and still getting hand of Gork. Undispellable hand of gork on ardboys with +4 to charge is pretty consistent I'd say.

Shields are generally better. 2/5 tzaangors have greatweapons which have an expected damage of .5 with no buffs or the extra attack for 9+ models. 1/5 Tzaangors is a mutant with paired blades and an extra attack with an expected damage of .5 with no buffs or the horde bonus. (Greatweapons beat out mutants with the extra attack, since they double the number of attacks). Paired savage blades have an expected damage of .33 shieldgors have an expected damage of .25 Shields are generally better because so many of the models have special weapons that the normal tzaangors often don't contribute much to the fighting. For a 10 man unit you might get some extra value out of paired blades but in a 20 man they'll rarely contribute. Also you can make the unit captain use a greatblade.

Yeah I'm pretty sure the answer to SoB is to bring at least one hyper-offensive unit that can take down a mega quickly. SoB have no answer to things that can kill them in a single round, and while that may seem "obvious" most armies use chaff, shooting, and magic to make those units more manageable, none of which we have in any meaningful capacity. In casual games many players don't think to bring this stuff, or push them to the limits of their damage output, but you can expect those kinds of things in a more competitive environment. There are a bunch of armies with units that can put out 35+ wounds against a 4+ with good consistency, that also have the tools to properly protect those units from SoB since we have no movement shenanigans. Many of those units tend to be weak to shooting though, which works in our favor since they may show up less often, although we're not exactly strong against shooting either. tldr; we're strong against stuff that grinds, but weak against strong hammers.

I'm trying to line up my next list for when I finish painting my Giants (I find having a list I'm excited for helps me be motivated to paint). I'm eyeing slaves to darkness and I was wondering what people's thoughts on Idolators and/or Tzeentch marked units are. Both of these look pretty questionable to me but I don't have much experience with STD.

MSU brutes in a brute fist, with ironsunz clan, and a shaman with wrath of gork could have some gas. MSU brutes will pump up wrath of gork, and you can bait with a unit of brutes then use the ironsunz CA to counter charge.

Flying from the core rules: Longshanks: Retreating: The reason we needed commentary was because longshanks overrides the normal rules, and you ignore models with a wounds characteristic of 4 or less, so we needed to know if longshanks also overrode the retreat rules. Fly doesn't ignore models, it just allows you to move over them. Longshanks also doesn't let you pile in or charge over models.

You could phrase it to be more fitting, like throwing a party or defiling the objective. Might be horribly broken, but a "burn" allegiance ability like on scorched earth could actually be pretty interesting.

against a 4+: 30+ ungors with spears will put out 2-5 damage on average. 20+ Gors do 1-4 damage 20+ of Gors with +1 to hit and wound do 3-6 damage 10 Bestigors without their +1 or charge bonus do 3-6 damage 10 Bestigors with +1 to hit do 4-8 damage 10 bestigors with their charge bonus and +1 will do 6-11 damage. Obviously Gors should hit harder than they do now, its a joke, but they're limited heavily by the space they're trying to occupy, even in the scenario where they get +1 to hit/wound the extra damage they have over ungors is pretty negligible, push it any higher and they're outdoing non charging bestigors. This is why I think Gors need situational strength, in order to be a unit we want to take they need to be able to outdamage bestigors sometimes and by building those buffs into the warscrolls it telegraphs those situations to players, but having them outdamage bestigors unless bestigors have all their bonuses active doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think its pretty doable to fix spiders if the subfaction is strong enough. Multiplicative buffs are pretty rare, and while it can be tough to get the mortal wound double spell, and the 5+ spider venom they actually hit super hard if you do. What I'd like to see: Spider venom applies to crooked spear attacks (although write the description of the single mortal wound version so arachnarok spears don't do d3 mortals) & arachnarok spiders can run 2d6" CA: Pick a spiderfang unit wholly within 18", that unit's spider venom ability triggers on an unmodified roll of 5 or 6. CT: Spiderfang Wizard Hero: anything really, so we can choose between the scuttleboss command traits, or giving one to our webspinner Artifact: something to buff casting if the command trait doesn't Battalions: Skitterstrand Ambush Party: 0-1 Scuttleboss, 1 Skitterstrand Arachnarok, 1 Spider Riders: When you choose to hold the skitterstrand arachnarok from this battalion in reserve you may keep the other units from this battalion in reserve as well. When you set up the Skitterstrand Arachnarok up using it's Ambush from Beyond ability you may set up the other units from this battalion in reserve wholly within 3" of the Skitterstrand Arachnarok from this battalion, if you don't or can't those units are destroyed. I also think spider riders should get a point drop and unit size change. 30 spider riders is insanity, it should be 5-20 90/320 If they want spiderfang to be REALLY good they should also make the spider venom effect the bow shots somehow.

From a design perspective its better if each one of these units serves a distinct purpose, so we don't run into this situation again. At the moment nobody takes Gors because they compete directly with ungors, and are generally worse for the points. By making them naked bestigors you would just be changing it so that they compete directly with bestigors and, unless the balance is perfect, we end up in the same situation but between gors and bestigors instead of gors and ungors. If buffed Gors can do what bestigors do, and operate as a proper hammer, for cheaper, why would you take bestigors? If the buffed Gors can't operate as a proper hammer what role do they serve ? The Gor issue isn't resolved through simple buffs, there just isn't enough space between 60 point ungor and 120 point Bestigor for a "middle man" unit to have a purpose. If you want them to exist as an "in-between" unit Bestigor need to go up in points significantly (with appropriate buffs of course) to justify their existence.

Yeah thats exactly what I'm expecting, gitz are gonna be there because the bad moon will settle over whatever is happening. We'll see a moonclan or skragrott themed subfaction and a couple of warscroll rewrites for the stuff that really needs it, which I'm completely fine with. Gobbapalooza and Dankhold rewrites are now at the top of the list of things I want gitz to get since I want those units to not be a detriment.

I kind of hope we see an "avatar of Mork" after the siege of Excelsis, we need a kunnin alternative to Gordrakk and the siege probably won't go cleanly. I kind of expect a Tzeentch cult or some skaven to pop out mid siege, along with the bad moon causing all sorts of insanity.

What I mean by better on objectives is to give them a rule that makes them stronger defending objectives, something like "While this unit is within 6" of an objective you control add 1 to its attack characteristic and reroll wound rolls of 1. While this unit is within 6" of a contested objective add 2 to it's attack characteristic and reroll all wound rolls." This would make hordes of Gors good if they're defending an objective, since they get a pretty sizable buff (would be +2 attacks if they were controlling an objective, and 20+ strong), especially for their points, and would take advantage of their larger footprint to zone things off the objective. The contested part is just nice flavor (with the Gors going into a frenzy) if it looks like they're about to lose the objective. Gor's biggest issue from a balance perspective is that their "role" is Infantry horde thats stronger than Ungor but weaker than bestigor, and with only a 60 point range to fit them into its hard to put them in a good spot that won't invalidate one or the other. Situational strength is a good solution to this problem, since you can make them punch closer to bestigors (or even beyond) but only in certain situations that don't overlap with what bestigors are used for, this is why "Stronger when controlling an objective" is actually a pretty good role for them. Gor's and Bestigors could go 2W, but I don't see it. Tzaangor were already 2W when the BoC book was released but they didn't take the opportunity then.

There's still moonclan left, although I was kind of hoping another clan would've got a chance in the spotlight. I just hope we don't miss out on some warscroll rewrites.

I'm feeling palisade. Its the closest we get to an actual screen

I wouldn't rule out warscroll rewrites, but i think spider riders are salvagable with point updates and good subfaction rules. Their damage is pretty good if we get both buffs (5+ venom and double mortals) and if the subfaction makes that easier to pull off, and we get a good point drop they could start looking pretty good. I wouldn't be against a rewrite though.

I've been waiting for this! I've got 2k points of spiderfang painted up and sitting on my shelf. Looking forward to this. Hopefully this does something to make spider riders more consistent and deal with the arachnaroks movememt issues

@Kasper The Great-bray shaman's devolve really pulls it weight if you have some screamers/skyfires/enlightened. Those units fly and are so fast that pulling something off an objective makes it very easy to steal.

Honestly a few squigs arent a bad addition to a troggoth list, they can be cheapish objective nabbers and screens, plus boingrots are always good, and a unit of 6 rockguts is pretty solid as a solo unit in a non trogg list. I would've rather seen some fellwaters over the loonboss but if dankholds end up getting a good warscroll rewrite this box is solid for squigs or trolls.

I've had some KO laying around since I bought Aether War for the Tzeentch stuff last year and I'm trying to plan out my next army. I love the looks but I tend to need a list before I can motivate myself to paint so that's exactly what I'm doing. I want to make a list that runs Skywardens even though I've heard endrinriggers are generally better, So far I've got the aether war half and the new warcry box (so 9 balloon boys, a gunhauler, 5 thunderers, & an endrinmaster in dirigible suit). So far I've thrown this together: Allegiance: Kharadron OverlordsLeadersEndrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (190)- GeneralBattleline6 x Skywardens (200)- 1x Skyhooks12 x Skywardens (400)- 1x SkyhooksUnits1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)- Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)BehemothsArkanaut Frigate (220)BattalionsGrundstok Escort Wing (120)Total: 1510 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 86 I'm not sure if this is any good or how to finish off the list. As for Skyports I was thinking Barak-zon since it explicitly buffs the skywardens, Barak-Urbaz so I could get Aethergold on Skywarden units with less than 12 models, or Barak-Thryng since it has a melee subtheme and I could maybe fit a cool ally in (maybe a few HGB).