Causalis

No one is even mentioning Khorne? All this army wants is to get into melee and for stuff to die to get those sweet Bloodtithe Points. But to be fair, the god of brutal melee combat is sadly not that deadly ATM. Another great choice would be Ogres! You could also go all in on Troggoths from the Gloomspite Gitz. Very cool aesthetic and Rockgut Trolls hit for 3 dmg a swing. Ouch!

The Crimson Court is in a somewhat unique place: Every other warband is comprised of a leader who is often a hero option and a battleline. Thus you often have one good profile in there from the leader and a bunch of bad/mediocre attacks from the rest. But the Vampires are all elite models. So it's hard to guess how that will play out. My take: The warband will be around 240 points or so. Prince Duvalle will have standard Vamp Lord attacks, Vellas von Faine will have many attacks with low rend, the bat guy will have bad attacks since he is the most feral and undisciplined of the bunch and the big mace guy will have few but powerful attacks. They will probably be able to cast one specific spell as long as Duvalle is alive and they heal 1 wound if they kill something in melee.

This. Also: Manny, Nef and Arkhan are made from one mold form. Those forms cost a LOT of money to make. Taking Arkhan's model away would invalidate the mold form and GW would have to make a new one just for Manny and Nef and I can't see GW taking those costs if they aren't updating all three mortarchs.

I can't comment on moving to a different country. But I've moved three times in the last two years, I got a bunch of cardboard boxes for packing stuff (they are called "Umzugskartons" here in Germany). I lined the bottom of these with bunched up newspaper and then layered my minis. Heavy or big things like Imperial Knights, my Ironclad, Mortis Engine etc. go on the bottom. Then I put a layer of filling material on top and added more minis. Repeat until the box is reasonably full. I can report that almost all my minis managed to survive those three movings without damage. Even the fiddly Skeleton Warriors! It's a cheap option and it doesn't take a lot of space so that you can still fit other things into your moving van. Hope this helps!

So, since the CC models now don't seem to translate to new SGL units what do you think we will get in terms of actual new units? After all for example the Zombie Ogres don't seem like they will be their own thing but just part of that mega-warband. I would like to be wrong with this, because Zombie Ogres are dope! Hell, give me Zombies FROM OTHER RACES GW! Why is it all humans all the time? And why is it almost always peasants? I want to see Soldier Zombies in armour, Ork Zombies, Ogre Zombies, Elf Zombies etc. None of those would need special rules. Just make them part of the Deadwalker Zombie mob. It would be sad if the new army would just be the LoN units (minus the ghosts) plus a few unique Vampire characters. Gosh I'm just too giddy to see some new death models that are true to the old style like the upcoming Wight King and those Blood Knights. I don't need wild new sculpts like the Bone Harvester etc.

True that. And I would be pleasently surprised if GW decided to make a new Arkhan model. But on the other hand I can't see a reason for that. His current model is still very cool and even relatively new. It is also a shared kit with Manni and Nef and if they replaced Arkhan with a new model they would have to change the mould for the Mortarchs kit - which we know is very expensive. Thus I can't really see Arkhan getting discontinued or getting a new model. He'll probably not exist/be dead in the lore for a while and some day be resurrected again. And since the OBR book is still pretty new I don't think his warscroll will change until he comes back. I mean it would be totally awesome if GW threw a curveball and Nagash doesn't resurrect Arkhan. His steed dives after him as we know. So maybe it snatches up his essence. Arkhan then absorbes the souls that his steed has in his belly and remakes himself, thus being not directly bound to Nagash. This process kills his steed and we get Arkhan as a new mini that dials up his Lich-dome with floating souls around him and crackling death energy and leaning more towards a sorcerer in his aesthetic. Do I think this scenario is likely? No. Is it awesome? Heck yeah! The likely scenario is probably the boring one: Arkhan is on hiatus, get's resurrected somehow and maybe gets a new warscroll but no new mini because his current one is too new. GW could tie this in with a second wave of OBRs and a new Battletome.

An interesting observation regarding the timeline of this all: BR:Teclis seems to take place at the same time or shortly after WotE. We know this becasue Lady Olynder and Katakros are both still away on their campaign in the Eightpoints. I wonder how things would have went if all five Mortarchs would have been available. I also like the thought proposed in this thread that Nagash may change his character a bit after he inevitably revives. From Nagash: Undying King we know that being destroyed by Archaon splintered his psyche and it took some time for him to reform into a coherent being. Maybe now we will see a more diplomatic shard of Nagash taking the lead. And to be fair, even though Death lost in BR:T, as a faction they are in one of the best positions! Apart from Azyr there isn't a single realm completely under the control of one faction, with the exception of Shyish. So Death have a strong homebase, since they own Shyish and have effectively gotten rid of any other faction there that would try to claim their lands. They also managed to build strongholds in other realms! Quick question: Do we know if the undoing of the Necroquake has any influence on the Shyish Nadir? I think not? At least to me it reads like Teclis fixed the ripples of death magic distorting things in the other realms but the main effect of Nagash's ritual - making the Shyish Nadir a power-black-hole that funnels souls into Shyish - doesn't seem unmade.

Biggest "wtf" moment for me was how Teclis just ended the Necroquake as if it were an afterthought. It feels like the writers ran out of time or something and just hamfisted the ending. It took Nagash millenia to craft his black pyramid and assemble everything for the ritual that would unleash the Necroquake. The skeletons carrying the gravesand walked that path for so long and so often, they literally wore down mountains! And Teclis undoes all this with a single rune, because new elves stronk. Again: It feels cheap. That's a good summary of the book IMO. Death losing is ok, as well as Nagash getting his boney ass kicked. But it all should come at a cost! Like in Wrath of the Everchosen, where hordes of Chaos Warriors, Priests, Sorcerers etc. were needed just to stem the tide of Bonereapers and Nighthaunt. Here too, Death didn't achieve their goal of taking the Varanspire, but it felt like a hard fought "defeat" and not just a showcase for the other army.

They won't remove Arkhan or Nagash. I bet they'll get resurrected (or hints toward that) in the next BR. At the very least they will remain playable. With Death having gotten so much attention this edition it would be very strange if GW suddenly pulls Nagash and Arkhan from the shelves and disallowed their continued use in matched play.

Quick question: What happens to endless spells? The lore says that those could only be conjured because the Necroquake is distrubing the winds of magic. But now that the quake is gone, so too should be the endless spells. But this obviously won't happen, because GW wants to sell them minis. So do we have any justification for them sticking around?

I have been thinking about this... what actually changes for the (average) Vampire ruler? From the lore it seems that Nagash doesn't really meddle with any rulers. Heck, he hardly interacts with his mortarchs. For example I'm fairly certain that Nagash wouldn't even know who Radukar is. Everyone that isn't at least a demi-god just doesn't seem to get any attention from Big N at all. So now that he is regenerating I can't see much really changing. Look at the Cursed City lore: Radukar has ultimate free reign over his empire. He can slaugther the people as he pleases etc. Nothing here seems to indicate that Nagash being around somehow limited him in any way. It's not like Nagash is visiting the Vampires once an month and if they don't bend the knee he wipes them out. The only immediate change I can think of is that now open infighting is on the table again. Small cities could do this before, because to Nagash it didn't matter. But now some big Vampire Lords could for example try and conquer some regions that are held by the Bonereapers etc. I'm also very curious to see what Manni and Nef will be up to! This is the opportune time for them to go for each other's throats and realize their own goals.

Nagash has "died" a lot of times. At this point you can't really kill him. Same goes for probably every god. You can weaken them, seal them away etc. but they can't be killed. Also, death is Nagash's home-turf. In Nagash: The Undying King we learn that he actually transformes more and more from a physical entity to death itself - a force of nature if you will. As for Arkhan: IIRC the fluff for AoS is that Nagash created Neferata, Mannfred and Arkhan by collecting their soulstuff and searching his vast memories for them and then stitching those things together. So he'll probably just remake Arkhan.

Ah le sigh. Nagash defeated... again. Colour me surprised! (sarcasm) GW is just really bad at writing meaningful/impactful stories for their antagonists. There is a HUGE gap between what they say Death does and what we actually read in the stories. From the battletomes and small stories, the Death armies and Nagash seem to be a huge threat to the other realms and everyone is quaking in their boots when the Bonereapers come knocking. But as soon as any form of serious resistance comes up, the whole Death faction seems like a cardhouse. I mean seriously, what did Nagash and his armies actually achieve? The black pyramid was built but the end goal of sucking all souls to Shyish didn't come to pass. The Eightpoints weren't taken, even with Archaon absent and despite Katakros being hyped up as the best general to ever exist etc. Hell, in Soulwars the Nighthaunt didn't even manage to capture Glymmsforge! And now we have a book in which Nagash and his minions fail every single attempted goal? Seriously, GW? Every one of the three original Mortarchs failed? Couldn't even throw them the proverbial bone and have one of them succeed? And for me the most infuriating thing is that Nagash didn't learn a thing from his past defeats! Every time he throws himself into the melee he gets knocked on his ass. Against Sigmar, against Archaon and now against Teclis. This sadly makes Nagash look like an incompetent fool. Of course he can't win his big goals because then every faction would just die and that's the end. But it is simply bad writing when you tell your readers that your villain "is really powerful, I swear yo!", only to have him defeated at every turn.

Don't be so hung up on the name of it. Replace "Gravesite" with something like "Feeding grounds" etc. and boom, you got the new faction terrain!

I knew this would inevitably be pointed out. But to be honest, Zombies shouldn't hit on 2s, wounding on 3s. That's Elite territory and infringes on what the Skeletons are (somewhat) supposed to do. As I said: I hope we will have a clearer distinction between Zombies as cheap fodder/tarpit and Skeletons as the damage dealing horde option ("damage dealing" as in "moderately killy". I certainly don't expect them to be blenders). On the topic: Do you think Skeleton Warriors will see an overhaul? I could imagine that they will shift in their profile, by losing the Graveshield rule but gaining a 5+ save. I also don't really see them keeping their rediculous number of attacks if you bring big units. It's very unwieldy and timeconsuming to roll that many dice - especially with Dance Macabre. And do you think we will get Terrain and Endless Spells? Getting a Mausoleum or actual plastic minis for our Gravesites would be awesome. So far, every Death faction has gotten Endless Spells - only LoN is left out because they are such an old book.

That's my point: This was true in WHFB, but in AoS it seems Nef is vastly less powerful - and since all her lore depicts her as being this "weak" it simply could be that this is the direction GW wants to take her. You may have to look at the possibility that your image of how Nef should be is based on her WHFB character and that she is now waaaayy less important. However, I am fairly confident that we will see some badass and powerful lore for Manni and Nef in the Gravelords BT. They need a clear role they can fill that isn't done (better) by the Skeletons. In Fantasy this was tarpitting the enemy. So Skeletons would be our offensive horde unit and Zombies would be for swarming objectives. This could play off of the Deadwalker keyword: Each Zombie unit auto resses X Zombies at the start of each turn for each Deadwalker hero within X". Also make their "turn the enemy into a Zombie" work on a 4+ or something. They hardly kill anything as it is and only getting more Shamblers on a 6+ might as well be ignored entirely. On the topic of Mortis Engine becoming Nighthaunt exclusive: I don't see it. It's a Necromancer on top and the thing is being pulled by (mostly) Skeletons.

Yes, but not in a "I smash your face in" kinda way. Which is what I meant with that. Her prowess comes from her plans and outsmarting her opponent, not by beating him to a pulp in hand-to-hand combat. You're right about the problem of reflecting this on the tabletop. Another problem here is theme: Arkhan is the "Mortarch of Magic". But Mannfred is also supposed to be the Vampire that's well versed in magic. But he is also supposed to be scheming and cunning, like Nef. But that leads to some weird mishmash. Would be better to have it clear-cut: Arkhan for magic, Neferata for cunning, Mannfred for melee. Obviously Manni and Nef should both be lvl 2 casters. But Nef should lean more towards support and (de)buffs. Beguiling the enemy, confusing their plans, infusing our Vampires with bloodmagic etc. On the topic of whishlisting: I would fancy a new Corspe Cart. The current one is ok, but just think about how sweet a new one could look! With the new Skeletons being all armoured we also lack the visual distinction between the current Grave Guard and the new Skeleton Warriors. Thus I think the Grave Guard will either get squated (pls no!) or we get a new sculpt for them. Lorewise they are fallen heroes and warriors of great martial prowess, all burried in their splendid armour and resurrected to defend the castles and barrows. So if their job is to be the elite guard of important places I would like for them to look more beefy. Give them big armour like Chaos Warriors and put 'em on 32mm bases and give them 2 wounds. Shift them from a blender unit - yes people, the current iteration of Grave Guard can decimate foes! I took third place with my LoN in the GTC Warmup and people were really surprised by how strong GG can be - to an anvil. We currently really lack any durable unit! The only one is Spirit Hosts and those will likely be Nighthaunt-exclusive with the new book. Speaking of changes to armour: For crying out loud, please GW, change the stupid Graveshields rule! Almost every unit that gets released these days has rend -1 or better on their weapons, making our shields useless. Hell, they could even scrap the rule entirely and lower the points a bit. It's just sad seeing my Black Knights going from their potential 4+ to a 6+ save when they fave rend -1... Buffs to the Coven Throne - specifically the Vampire Queen on top. She hits like a wet noodle. And a rework of the Bloodseeker Palanquin! It could become a buff unit that (quite literally) juices up Soulblight units within X". I also hope that each of the new Vampires (Rat guy and horn-hair lady) are simply the named character choice of their bloodline and not just random unique leaders without ties to anything.

Is she still such a powerhouse in AoS fluff? In "Nagash: The Undying King" she struggled against a single Blightlord. I was actually a bit shocked how weak she was. Thought she should carve through Nurgle's followers like the wind of death but nope. So I think GW doesn't see her as a combat monster in any way. Sure she is still an Uber-Vampire with all that entails. But I think in GW's eyes Neferata is all about scheming, subterfuge etc. This is not to say that I wouldn't really like to see her become a blender! But I think Mannfred should be the one more geared towards combat and Neferata should be a support/combat hybrid with a strong CA and unique spell etc. Please, no. I don't want 140p "Elite" unit that literally has 2 attacks that deal 1 dmg. If GW makes elite Vampires, I want them to really hurt.

GW couldn't allow the Doot-Skeleton to continue. He was too powerful! I mean how did he manage to play his instrument without lips?! I daresay even Nagash would struggle with that task!

To be fair, "can kill squishy units" shouldn't be a strength but absolutely mandatory for a 340p model. I'm aware of the danger shooting poses. But to be honest that's not an intrinsic weakness of Manni. EVERY UNIT in the game is weak to shooting and heroes without look-out-sir doubly so. I'll try Manni in a few games and report my results here. I'll probably run him up the board with a unit of 6 Vargheists to take advantage of his CA.

Ok, thanks for the input! How does Mannfred perform for you in combat? He seems to be decent (not really worth his 340p to be honest but not terrible either). Any recommendations on units that synergise well with him? Morghasts are obvious. Maybe Black Knights or Vargheists? He needs something to keep up with him or else he will just get run over if he charges into combat alone. Another question: If I take Legion of Night and Mannfred, does he still HAVE to be the general? And if I take him in Grand Host I can freely choose the general, correct?

It's kind of a big deal lore-wise if Radukar is an Ogor or not. Being an Ogor would imply that he is very tough and strong but also rather stupid. The Vampirism could somewhat change that but AFAIK it simply makes the afflicted person stronger, faster etc. but not suddenly smarter. Yes, yes I know that there are some exceptions with some "smart" Ogors being around. On the other hand, him being an Ogor would mean he is part of a tribe and this could open up some future expansions with more Zombie/Vampire Ogors. Which whould be dope af!

Yeah. He doesn't feel like an imposing villain. It's probably because of his not-so-sophisticated looks. He doens't look regal and his corsac attire looks odd rather than imposing. But at the same time I like the brutish style. He isn't the millionth lithe-and-thin Vampire but looks more like a bruiser. He somewhat reminds me of the BBEG from Disney's "Mulan" (the cartoon movie, not the new abomination they released). I think a headswap with a bare-headed White Scar from 40K would be dope. Maybe someone with some photo editing skills could swap his head for something more fitting?

Blood Warriors. Period. Look at those gorgeous models! They look like absolute killers, ready to harvest those skulls for Khorne. ...And then you look at their warscroll and see that they wound on 4+ and have NO REND. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad! I regularly field 2x10 of them, because I love their models so much. But every time they get to their attacks I'm dying a little inside. They hit like wet noodles. Continuing with the theme of awesome models with poor rules: Lady Olynder. She's an absolute beauty but just doesn't pull heir weight. Her rules aren't utter garbage but she's not worth her points. Sadly, the same goes for Mannfred and Neferata. They too aren't terrible, but are they worth over 300 points? Nope. Let's hope GW gives these Mortarchs some love in the future!

As a Gloomspite-Player: You don't want this. The Gloomspite subfactions have zero synergie between each other, which makes fielding mixed lists very awkward. And if you go Trolls only you have an extremely limited pool of units to choose from and almost no synergies between them. The recent WD somewhat fixed this by giving us more options to go all-out on Squigs. Another negative example here is Khorne. You can either go full Mortals or full Daemons but there isn't a Tribe for a mixed list and not much synergie between them. IF the Gravelords get subfactions I want them to be well designed! I want to be able to go full mono-subfaction and still have a force with some nice combos that doesn't feel like I'm shooting myself in the foot for taking it. And I also want to be able to make lists with mixed subfactions that still feel like a coherent force with combos and synergies between the units.