NauticalSoup

I think we can all agree, the last thing anybody wants is for Stormcast to rise to the top via the same method as Space Marines have in 8th edition: through a gigantic mountain of rushed splatbooks. One decent book is more than sufficient, please and thank you.

In fact I'd say that SMs have had this problem for virtually the entire history of the game. Even back in the ancient days of Rogue Trader, Space Marines kept getting powercrept by their adversarial counterparts, and each new edition would start out with a boost to the Space Marine's arsenal (or even statline, in the case of 2nd edition), only for them to be subsequently overshot by later rules releases. Seems likely recently GW has decided the solution is to just... never ever stop writing new rules for Space Marines? 40k sucks pretty bad atm lol

Thanks! I feel really dumb now, it didn't turn up on google cuz I typed "Oscar Lars" instead of "Oscarlars" 🙄

@Lysandestolpe Thanks! Sorry, I have one other question for you - did you use black as a basis for the 'black' armour or did you use the GW method which is dark green washed down even darker? I'm colourblind so I usually have to outsource colour selection lol Also I can't seem to find your patreon - URL gives a 404. I'm not sure if that's patreon having an issue or what.

So back when Gotrek was releases I remember all manner of discussion of how he would break the game, and all the Order armies he might find a place in. Fast forward to 2020 and he seems to have largely retreated out of the limelight. I'm curious if anyone has found success in using him as a basis for army-building. A lot of early theorycrafting involved either sticking him to Idoneth since they're one of the only armies that can give him bonuses, or Cities to take advantage of spells that can target him. There were also Endless Spell heavy lists that would use things like Cogs or Emerald Lifeswarm to amp up his speed and durabiltiy respectively, or damage-dealing spells to create "funnels". I think the big issues with these was always that Gotrek himself is already too large an investment to spend much more to give him some additional marginal benefits. So, has anyone found that killer list he really fits in and synergizes with?

It wasn't when 8th launched but I think they brought it back because null deployment was such a problem. It was a part of most previous editions of 40k. I think it might apply on like turn 3 or something now? Been a while since I played. But yeah Sigmar is a different game. You can be tabled and still win, so your opponent has to actually see if he can score enough by playing the objectives once you've been removed. If you're behind in score and you get tabled though, I would imagine you'd call it just to save time.

...Hagrid? Was I quoting Hagrid? I'm not a Harry Potter guy so if I was it was entirely coincidental haha. This so much. Me and one of my buddies got into AoS through splitting a Soul Wars we won at a 40k event, and then splitting a second one we got dirt cheap. We both ended up nearly quitting because nearly all our early play experiences were terrible. Now he usually plays Legions of Nagash and I usually play Orruk Warclans. We usually only play Nighthaunts and Stormcasts against one another 😆

Honestly, suggesting somebody 'go play a different game' is perhaps the single least effective way to curb negativity on a subject. There are real problems with SCE. Letting people vent about them isn't a bad thing. Someday, perhaps things will be good and we can talk about that. But that day isn't today.

I wouldn't personally bother with a Rogue Idol without a Warchanter, even in Bonesplittaz. It's literally, in my view, what makes the Rogue Idol good again. I can see him getting tarpitted without one, but with a warchanter buff he'll destroy about 20 chainrasps per activation. Even with summoning he should be able to open a hole to the heroes for somebody to exploit. Teef rukk is fine if you have enough big stabbas - at least 12. Stabbas in Drakkfoot eat Nighthaunts, and 3" range will help you to slap attacks onto the heroes. Rend -2 ignoring ethereal and FNP saves will chunk them. Not taking a Wurrgog is probably the biggest issue with your list. He's probably the best unit in Warclans, and definitely the best spellcaster. The Bonesplittaz lore is great - try Breath of Gorkamorka on your Rogue Idol and watch him flyyyyy around the board. You definitely want to have as many casting bonuses on your Wurrgog as possible to get off his warscroll spell to obliterate a horde. Rogue Idol, Wardokk(s), and the artefact that enhances your casting. Having enough casters to double-buff your Savage Orruk blobs is also ideal. And the Maniak Weirdnob also has a great warscroll spell to amp your stingas/stikkas. Honestly your lore spells are so strong I wouldn't expect to cast fireballs very often - the whole lore save Squiggly curse and in your case probably Bone Krusha are strong as heck. I wouldn't bother with Kop Rukk. It doesn't exempt you from the rule of one so you still can't cast Fists of Gork twice. Kinda pointless if you're running the (superior) Wurrgog. Nighthaunts really aren't in a very good place right now, being one of the very first 2.0 tomes along with Stormcast. If you're being consistently dominated the thing you probably need to work on is your generalship, and list tuning is no substitute for competence in execution.

Kinda? But I mean is it really worth giving up two attacks and an inch of range? I'd give the rip-tooth fist a HARD naw. If you're taking a footboss I guess you have no choice though. Shame.

...Drakkfoot? Honestly I feel like this is a horrendously bad matchup for the Nighthaunts. Take any moderately tuned Drakkfoot list and you would be the favoured player. You can get Savage Orruks up to a 3+ save with buffs which he'll have a hard time chewing through, you can poke with arrowboys, you can rend through his saves with big stabbas - if you want to be really nasty a rogue idol with an allied warchanter will thresh through his units and instantly demolish any hero it reaches. Also, the Wurrgog Prophet mulches big blobs. 20 mortal wounds to a chainrasp horde is nothing to sniff at, nor is 10 to the reapers. Just make a hole and kill his squishy heroes. GG.

@Kasper Never tried it, but for Fyreslayers in theory if you really wanted to charge them you could get the first round of attacks off using the MD trick (charge in the hero phase, move back out of 3" in the movement phase).

That sounds like a craaaaazy amount of raptors. Seems like nearly all the lists run 9 and maybe 12 on occasion (for longstrikes anyway). Like that's 1360 pts of raptors if they're using longstrikes. And that's before you also buy aetherwings and the extra CP to doubleshoot them all. That barely leaves enough points to satisfy battleline and leader requirements.

@Malakree Those are some nice lookin' boys. Can I ask what's up with the base colours? Especially the two-tone ones. Does it mark out units or officers or somesuch?

(Contains a swear)

@Lysandestolpe Your work is fantastic - your Hallowed Knights guide was great inspiration for starting out my Stormcasts. Maybe this isn't the place to ask but is there anywhere that you documented the process for the black/yellow armour on these Ironjawz? I haven't started painting mine yet and so far the best I've come across is the official GW colours & steps. Good luck finding a buyer!

In retrospect, this was the obvious answer lol

It does but don't they also usually let you continue to take everything matched play legal that still has points until those points get removed in the GHB? Like that's why we can still use Greenskinz units in Big Waaagh. Or why you can still play Dispossessed with dwarf warriors instead of CoS.

I feel the same way 1000%, and that's as someone who actually plays Order. We've already got a new and presumably large army coming this year to add to our already bloated range. Destruction is by far the most maligned GA in terms of releases, and Giants have always been an orc & goblin/ogre thing. It'd be such a travesty for it to get shuffled off to Order. Not that I think it'll happen, the gargant kit isn't going away and it's got old WHFB monster feel including a human cage and a fleeing Empire dude. Too monstrous for Order.

Second Gluttons and Maneaters. The later is going to retain more of its original flavour, the former is just so easy to change up they're basically a blank slate.

@Malakree Fair enough. Yes, the issue I was having was one of semantics and we were apparently using the same word in different ways. I actually agree with your premises I just have a higher tolerance for crappy and badly designed units, and as an SCE player I've been forced to make do with a lot worse than Brutes.

You can manage a lot with putty. The big space marine shoulders conceal the upper arm so the shoulder join doesn't have to be perfect since it'll be covered up from every angle but below.

I was about to bash out a response but when I saw your edit I deleted it. There's no point in reasoning with you if you would waste all that time trying to prove your point just to cut your own legs out with such a silly comment. Apparently, units that are incredibly strong for their points are also garbage? Maybe your definition of garbage is just things that are poorly designed? Whatever it means to you, it's something I wouldn't recognize. Carry on.

Well, remember, it's up to the people at that store to implement whatever policies have come down from on high. So those employees might have been giving you the correct information at that time, for that space, for that event etc. I'm just saying the 'correct' thing is to check with the people who run the space you play at. I've heard of some places having very strict requirements about conversions and others permitting a certain percentage of 3rd party bits... I think the only way to know is to directly communicate with your respective TO or store operator. And I guess I'm also skeptical of the copyright concern, although I absolutely believe it's the reason they might have been given for why some bits are or aren't allowed. I've seen far more indefensibly silly corporate mandates.

So, that might be why the TO in question made those decisions, but that isn't a global policy - at least not one that's enforced. And nobody is getting their license revoked because a TO accidentally mislabeled an image on social media. The literal worst outcome of that is they go "Whoops, sorry!" and take the image down. In practical terms it's the job of the people making those posts to label images properly - also I think a greater concern for taking pictures of events to advertise is painting and basing requirements. Source: Years of playing at a GW store (and in tournaments) against a guy using Gondor Knights as Roughriders.