woolf

Anyone started putting lists together? In terms of a starting point, I'm kinda thinking that 20 gutrippaz could be fun with the Snatchboss/Skumdrakk to give them a bit of dmg buff and probably a killaboss (of some flavour) to babysit for the battleshock? then probably fill out battleline with a couple of boltboyz units (i.e. Big yellers a bit forced but it seems decent enough anyways)

I think 2.5 for long shot (1attck/model) (3*1/6*2+3*1/6*3) and double that if hasty shot so 5mw. but also it will be quite swingy ofc so u probably want to look at probabilities (eg %chance to deal 5mw), but that I cant do on the fly 😅

rigth the spell bounce aura, forgot about that >.<

I would think Nagash should counter Lumineth quite well?

this isn't the worst perhaps, given the game has always (and will always remain) unbalanced and with power moving around (I.e creeping around I suppose).. at least aesthetics cant be nerfed is my point! power come and go but models remain and these guys are the best those brilliant GW artists have churned out to date imo

100% agree with this comment, imo you should swap armies and play a game or 2 before agreeing on any house rule, that way you can hopefully find common ground in what should perhaps be addressed. In our group we have used points handicap more than house ruling as well so that we can have an interesting game also between e.g. NH vs LRL, without denying the LRL player the rules in their book

Haha yeah shooting is another topic as well. Personally my issue is mainly with "unkillable" monsters that in a casual setting cant be dealt with... Gotrek imo should have a rework to not allow him to heal maybe but then again not sure he is worth the points etc so thats probably a bigger issue than what can be addressed by "simple house rules" as was the topic here. Striking the balance between big monsters being worth it (i.e. not insta sniped as you say) but also not too dominating is tricky

I would agree with this one, good call imo. I was also thinking that maybe a good house rule would be that Heroic Recovery cannot heal you to above 5w, e.g. a 10w hero can only use it if they are below 5 and if they are e.g. at 4 it can only take them up to 5

Always fun to look at some meta data! would be interesting to see how archaon lists are doing if that's possible to break out?

Personally I think the LRL split was a defensive move from GW rather than a deliberate strategy and thus unlikely to repeat, the first battletome felt half-baked and gave indication that more should have been there but was cut out last minute (e.g. lack of non-wizard generic heroes). Also they now have their work cut out for the next 2years or so bringing all 25+ (or how many there are) teams into 3.0 so I would find it a bit strange if they plan to squeeze in another version of these two in the near future.. but who knows, if the "LRL-model" was boosting sales, you could speculate its the new distribution model I guess.. If anything I think its more probable that we get another single unit or hero out of cycle, e.g. cavalry or something (as many are hoping for) in a year or so, but that wouldn't invalidate the book getting released now in the same way the LRL book fundamentally changed that army as it added so much new stuff

yeah and then run away to safety or charge to clean up depending on outcome, seems quite useful

ok, Good luck and yes know how it went

if u have the models i wound consider dropping eltharion and twinstones and add in another 20 wardens so u have some more bodies and combat output

from my perspective the issue is really in the healing, seeing that big bad monster heal back up to full after having maybe taken it down to a few wounds left is what really creates a feel bad imo. also without healing you can more easily balance things as it would be possible to grind anything down if u are willing to put the resources behind it (as opposed to having models that are truly immortal). So now we need to be able to take them down in one go, which creates need for mortal wound/ high rend hammers, which in turn prey on all else in the game and leads to haves/have nots, or games that are decided 99% by list building/match up. so imo there should be a cap on heroic recovery that it can only heal u up to eg 5 wounds (so small chars/ badly wounded monsters can still use it), ofc Gotrek needs to get his warscroll changed to not allow him to heal, same as morathi. and I think GW should be more restrictive with the healing available to things with high saves in general (eg nagash, archaon) or at least point them really really high (as arguably is the case now with nagash at least)

ah 3.0 change, thx for pointing that out

yeah as long as u keep making the 4+ u can recycle the same guy, however as u say if u fail the roll and there is no more models within 3 you cant keep rolling for other wounds allocated to the unit. so in many cases it works like another after save, in particular if u have many models close to the harvester, although it's not exactly that

Any thoughts on running Phoenix guard as allies?

I think ballista has a purpose now due to unleash hell, the neg hit can come in handy as defensive mechanism, so personally I'll probably at least try it out.

same 😂 having played around a bit with list building, I'm starting to come around that it will still work, you just need to be relentless in cutting things out (was already difficult before as so many cool warscrolls in LRL)

yep soulbligth seems pretty competitive now, blood knights are great at 195 in this world

I think the biggest issue is the 25 pt hike on wardens, they were the most decent hammer unit we had so feels like we will struggle to output enough dmg now, and also as you need them for battleline it's a flat out tax that will leave much less room for adding the fun stuff our book is packed with.. maybe the new environment with coherency rules, all the spells, high armour etc are enough boosts so LRL stays competitive but when you need to pay 1175 pts to get only teclis and 30 wardens, that build seems pretty dead at least

yep if he keeps his warscroll and on smaller board etc he should be great

yeah but its low probability and also you would have a chance to reroll with quartz in many cases

I would think so, i.e. dmg should not carry over to the unit as its only the champion who is the wizard

Well I suppose these Underworlds warbands typically always sux.. so at least ours comes with a stylish mascot 😂