NinthMusketeer

Though the daring may wish to transport their airship via Mawcrusha.

If you are primarily focused on matched play and/or balance then I wholeheartedly agree this GHB is a disappointment. Several years back I decided to actively change my expectations for Matched Play; I expect it to be an utter crapshow of imbalanced nonsense that needs to be self-policed for anything resembling fair play. Tournaments I look at as much a 'showcase' of how hard one can break the game as I do a contest of skill. That perspective has really helped me enjoy AoS more and I highly recommend it. That said, the new GHB has a massive overhaul to realm rules to make them palatable for Matched Play, which I feel they very much do in a manner that is reasonably well-balanced. A big improvement over the Malign Sorcery rules which are clearly intended for narrative gaming. But even in a casual sense I see players who are not super experienced often struggle to compensate for crazy realm rules and remember all the different spell options during a game. And the 12-artifacts-per-realm tables are a joke with only the handful of OP options ever being taken, the vast majority so poor as to be beneath consideration even for narrative play. The GHB artifacts may be 1-per-realm but they are all reasonably useful without being exploitative. Narrative-wise the GHB has the hero builder, which is mentioned a lot and justifiably so. Bottle wrote it, and it shows. It is very well designed and a ton of fun. Sure it has imbalances but the only ways to fully bypass that would be excessively complex or excessively bland. And for every OP or UP design there are a dozen that are reasonable, it is better balanced than the actual points while still providing the framework to customize a suitably unique character. It also leaves room for potential expansion with new options in the future, by fans or by GW. Meeting Engagements still exist, I suppose. I found them to be extra hoops to jump through for 1000-point games that make things less balanced and much less fun than just using the normal pitched battle rules. Open play has some nifty-looking rules for sky battles that I am hoping to try out eventually, could be fun to use as an encounter in a campaign (be it AoS proper or Soulbound).

I have always preferred Fantasy to Sci-Fi by default, but in recent years the biggest reason I have enjoyed the fantasy side of Warhammer more has come to be the culture of the game. Here in the US we have a very competitive culture, and in 40k it really shows. Even 'casual' leagues are overrun with optimization of GW's ever-frequent balancing errors and the idea of narrative or "just for fun" frequently plays second fiddle to winning. I have found people tend to take AoS less seriously and that makes for a better community. Narrative elements actually find support, there is less delusion that points justify the potency, and people care more about the game than the win/loss ratio. In my experience.

Alright, after a good deal of thinking this is what I have come up with: Greywater Fastness - This city has a number of benefits that help gun lines, especially handgunners which is a unit well suited for dealing with your meta. Freeguild General (General: Drillmaster Trait) - He stands in the midst of the handgunners and gives out his awesome command ability plus a very useful aura buff from his command trait. Runelord (Adjutant) - Stands near the general to generate extra CP, a great unbinder, and hands out buffs. Hurricanum w/Battlemage - Insanely good support aura, excellent MW output, and a wizard with nice warscroll spells. Cogsmith - Required for the battalion and useful for buffing the war machines within it. Be sure to equip him with the grudge-raker and a free hand as that is the best loadout. Freeguild Handgunners x20 Freeguild Handgunners x30 - Why not crossbows? Based on your local meta, you need the rend. Additionally, stand and shoot is a powerful ability essentially giving the unit an extra shooting phase should the enemy charge you, which they will. One unit is 20-man so it can be the honored retinue for the general and to save board space for fitting the units into buff auras. Longbeards x30 (Shields) or Ironbreakers x30 - These guys line up right in front of the handgunners, close enough so that if the enemy charges them they will come within 3" of the handgunners and thus trigger stand & shoot. Beyond that they take it to the face with their 3+ save and protect the gun line behind them. Longbeards cost less points and have a handy ability to unbind endless spells during your hero phase, Ironbreakers have an extra attack. 2x or 3x Helstorm Rocket Battery - Your handgunners have mid-range shooting so you need something that can go long to make this gunline work, and with 33" range these can be deployed behind other units yet still be well within range turn one. Firing at a single target and being in range of the hurricanum & cogmaster/general means they will be hitting on 3s, re-roll 1s. One of them can even hit on 2s thanks to the Rune of Unfaltering Aim buff. Greywater Artillery Company - This includes the cogsmith and rocket batteries. Reduces deployment drops, nets an extra CP, and an extra artifact, but mainly it plays well into the overall army strategy... This army wants to play cautiously and defensively early on. Your opponent will probably pull ahead in victory points the first two rounds, but the idea is to shoot him up so badly that you can regain ground in the second half. The battalion and handgunners (via stand & shoot) help you frontload the bulk of your shooting to earlier in the game--important against melee armies since they will overwhelm you if you cannot damage them badly in the early-game. The above leaves a decent chunk of points left over for you to play around with. I would recommend some fast support elements to seize objectives and/or endless spells that aid in movement or debuffs (McRib Bridge and Yin-Yang Orbs come to mind).

Good on you for not taking petrifax, the army certainly does not need it to excel and it sounds like bad luck sank you more than anything.

Not sure if it makes you feel better Firefrog but for what its worth, sounds like he is running about the strongest end of what Seraphon can field. And when it comes to Seraphon the top end is MUCH stronger than the average of the army overall, easily making it into top-tier. If you are not bringing a top tier army AND army build it would be normal to struggle. Bastiladons mean Thunder Lizard lists will just ****** all over chaos, and the battletome has other tools to ensure chaos largely cannot do anything about it. But at least you aren't trying to play Ogors vs Coalesced! Have you tried Blisterskin with GK on Terry, 2x Archregent, and Deadwatch? Eye of Hysh would do wonders I imagine, not to mention Blisterskin's other absurdities.

"2x2 Boards" means... 2v2 team games? 2x2 meters? Sorry to respond with another question but this could be quite relevant to the response. Preliminary response though; with that lineup against you any CoS army will be fighting an uphill battle. That is a strong meta and not one that favors a more average battletome. However CoS does have its own cheese to bring to the table and is not entirely helpless.

When it comes to CoS gunline you have a lot of ways of slicing things based on your individual preferences, however those options can dwindle quite quickly if you need to face off against stronger armies. Can you give us any idea as to your local meta; what armies you are likely to play against and (if possible) what sort of builds they run?

Yup, as along as everything has the Tzeentch keyword (which marked units do) you are good to go for using the allegiance abilities in the Disciples battletome. There are even traits & artifacts (those that can be used with Mortal Tzeentch) which work with them.

As per Gotrek's own rule abilities that allow models to be set up again after the battle has begun cannot be used on him. The "flying transport" rule can be used to set up models as such, and thereby Gotrek cannot benefit from the rule at all. Put more simply: Gotrek cannot be transported, even with this allegiance. I should definitely add a note on that though!

I hope you know we have all been holding our breaths waiting for you to remember--it has now been three days and a significant drain on available respirators.

I think an important factor to consider is which parts of the army you would actually use. Skaven, for example, have some extremely old miniatures but can make a strong (and even competitive) build using only newer kits--clanrats being the oldest of what you really need to have. Something else to consider is that the older low-detail kits can be extremely nice when making a horde army. When you are painting up 100+ infantry having less detail to paint speeds up the process considerably, while on the tabletop they are going to die in droves anyways. As for mentions of Gloomspite--it is a good idea; while the stabbas/shootas are very old they have aged well and are extremely quick to assemble & paint.

Edited with a slight wording change to Contracted Transport to make the rule more clear, and added the option to take certain Freeguild units as Dispossessed units, to represent the legacy infantry kits.

Thanks for the compliments guys! @ Longstep Legguards: I imagined leg armor that has enchantments which greatly enhance speed but only when the wearer maintains a stable pace (as in, the engine can start sputtering when you step on the gas too hard). But any fluff would be fine; the artifact was made from a rules-mechanic standpoint of enhancing the 'floor' speed of normally slow characters while not affecting the 'ceiling' speed. @ Palpable Disregard: It is once overall, I will edit the rule to make that more clear. Good catch. @ Contracted Transport: Those were major factors in my consideration. I felt that because units cannot leave after the skyvessel moves or deep strikes that prevents abuse of fyreslayer melee units, while the basic transport capacity limits the utility of the irondrake combo (only a 10-man unit can be loaded in without triggering the 'half move no deep strike' limitation). The tactic I see as a potential issue would be 20 irondrakes in an ironclad that runs 6", allowing them to move 11" before shooting while still getting the benefit of blaze away. That does have some drawbacks though (probable use of a command point to max the run move, exposure to enemy melee by going forward so far, a heck of a lot of points in one basket) and I ultimately do not feel it is enough to justify further restrictions that would nerf the multitude of non-gimmicky uses. However I am definitely keen to discuss the matter further. As for the infantry deal, unfortunately Infantry is not a keyword so I had to go the method of making it not apply to Monsters and War Machines instead.

That does make sense.

Originally posted over in the Bristling Beard thread, I figured this would be easier for people to find and reference if it had its own thread. At any rate, let me hear your feedback! Duardin War Throng A Duardin War Throng army can include any unit with the Duardin keyword. These units gain the War Throng keyword. By Grudge and Whisker: All Duardin respect the quest to settle a grudge, and perhaps more so an impressive beard. When gathered together on the battlefield differences of method fall aside in face of need and authority. Command abilities used by War Throng models that normally affect Dispossessed, Ironweld Arsenal, Fyreslayers, or Skyfarers can affect any unit(s) with the War Throng keyword. Additionally, the Old Grumblers ability from the Longbeards warscroll may affect any unit(s) with the War Throng keyword. Contracted Transport: While a War Throng may travel by conventional means, even those unpracticed in airborne combat can appreciate the efficiency of skyvessel transport. Skyvessels may transport Dispossessed, Ironweld Asenal, and Fyreslayers units as if they had the Marine keyword. However, the range of abilities and command abilities used by such units are reduced by 6" (to a minimum of 1"). Monsters and War Machines do not benefit from Contracted Transport. Note that Gotrek Gurnisson cannot be transported due to his Avatar of Grimnir ability. Palpable Disregard: Duardin disdain for spellcraft is legendary, to the point for spells cast against a War Throng may be overcome by sheer obstinacy. Once per enemy hero phase, a single War Throng unit may attempt to unbind a spell as if it were a Wizard. This rule ceases to function if there is a friendly Wizard on the battlefield. Exchange of Brew: Rare is the union of Duardin forces from different stripes that does not involve an exchange of alcohol. Indeed, so much time and effort goes into perfecting recipes to impress and outshine rivals that the competition even extends to the battlefield! After territories have been chosen but before the first unit is deployed, choose a set of brews to have been imbibed (in the name of friendly competition, of course). All War Throng units receive the indicated benefit for the duration of the battle. Potent Browraisers: You may re-roll battleshock checks for this unit, if the second result is lower than the first the check is automatically passed and no models flee. Steambroth Gutwarmers: If this unit runs and the result of the dice roll is a 1, 2, or 3 change that result to 4 before applying any modifiers. Numbskin Headthrobbers: Roll a dice each time you allocate a wound or mortal wound to this unit, on a 6+ that wound is negated. This rule does not apply if the unit already benefits from a similar ability (for example, the Duty Unto Death ability of Hearthguard Berzerkers). Command Traits: 1 - Spirit of the Ancestors: Add 2 to the bravery characteristic of War Throng units wholly within 24" of this general. 2 - Stubborn Toughness: Add 2 to the wounds characteristic of this general. 3 - Greatbeard: This general can use the Old Grumblers ability from the Longbeards warscroll. Runic Arms (Dispossessed, Ironweld Arsenal, or Fyreslayer models only) 1 - Rune of Might: Choose one of the bearer's weapons to possess a Rune of Might. Add 1 to wound rolls made with that weapon. 2 - Rune of Fury: Choose one of the bearer's weapons to possess a Rune of Fury. Add 1 to the attacks characteristic of that weapon. 3 - Rune of Cleaving: Choose one of the bearer's weapons to possess a Rune of Cleaving. Improve the rend characteristic of that weapon by 1 (rend - becomes -1, etc). Mastercraft Armour (Dispossessed, Ironweld Arsenal, or Kharadron Overlords models only) 1 - Enduring Plate: You may re-roll save rolls of 1 for the bearer. The first time the bearer would be slain, he is instead set to 1 wound remaining and any wounds or mortal wounds yet to be allocated to him are negated. 2 - Spellbreaker Gauntlet: Roll a dice each time the bearer would be affected by a spell or endless spell, on a 5+ ignore the effects of that spell or endless spell on this model. If the roll is made against an endless spell within 3" and the result is a 6+ that endless spell is immediately dispelled (after resolving its effects on any other units). 3 - Longstep Legguards: Add 3" to the bearer's move characteristic. This bonus does not apply if the bearer makes a run move. Auxiliary Contracts (Fyreslayers or Kharadron Overlords models only) 1 - Behemocide Bounty: After deployment but before turn order is determined, pick one enemy Monster on the battlefield. You may re-roll hit rolls of 1 for the bearer against that unit or any other unit which shares its warscroll. 2 - Glintspotter Survey: After deployment but before turn order is determined, choose one terrain feature on the battlefield. Once per round, if this model is within 1" of that terrain feature it may use a command ability on its warscroll without spending a command point. 3 - Relentless Headhunt: After deployment but before turn order is determined, pick one enemy Hero on the battlefield. You may re-roll hit rolls for the bearer against that unit if he is within 3". Allies: Stormcast Eternals, Ironweld Arsenal. Additional Warscrolls: The warscrolls for Freeguild Crossbowmen, Freeguild Handgunners, and Freeguild Guard may be used in a Duardin War Throng, with the changes listed below. This is to represent the legacy Dispossessed infantry while also benefiting from modern rule design and point updates. -Change the units' Move characteristic to 4" and Bravery Characteristic to 6. -Replace the Human keyword with Duardin and replace all instances of "Freeguild" (both in names and keywords) with Dispossessed. -Dispossessed Guard may not be armed with spears.

Hm, "Tridentcrests" seems incomplete to me, though I cannot put my finger on why. What if it were along the lines of "Tridentcrest Guard" or the like? Or it could just be me.

Cool to have art of them. I certainly like the female character in that one Fyreslayers short story.

As things stand the terrorgheist is better, and it is down to the maw dealing 6mw on 6's to hit. The classic game-breaker is a GK on Terrorgheist with the "Gruesome Bite" mount trait. The Zombie Dragon is not bad or underpowered though.

Vytalminde

There is at least one animal in real life with metal scales so I think it would be pretty implausible not to have them in the realm of metal.

Mortal priests and entire cults of Nagash do exist--they have popped up in novels & short stories. Also, let us not forget that the city could have more than one realmgate, and/or a realmgate that moves could pass by on a regular cycle. It sounds like the latter is what people might want for the Chamon aspect; some sort of skyborne moving realmgate that follows a specific path which passes the city on a regular (or irregular) interval. Probably fortified by KO.

I think it would be a big target for OBR, who would be a major threat the city would have to deal with.

TBF, Idoneth could have been with many adventuring parties and even whole expeditions in the past---they just aren't remembered.

What about the corpse of an immense godbeast, one slain in the age of myth. It died on its 'back' and has sunk into the ground somewhat over the ages, its spine now lies underground while multiple ribs jut up from the ground as individual towers. Each tower formally belongs to a [powerful mage/runemaster/leader/whatever] and his or her [clan/family/gang/subfaction/whatever] which are constantly vying for political control over the main city built within the bounds created by the rib cage. Walls have been built between the rib-towers and the towers themselves also carry major responsibility in defending the city, flinging projectiles, spells and whatnot at incoming attackers. During the age of Chaos the city fell* from within, the rib-tower masters either turning to chaos or murdered by those who did. What was once political conflict between the towers became outright warfare which continued until the region was liberated through the efforts of Order (insert faction here). By isolating and attacking the towers individually the Order forces were able to methodically retake the city in a piecemeal fashion despite being heavily outnumbered; each of the tower masters was pleased to see another fall while in their arrogance believing they could emerge victorious if the forces of Order attacked them. Once the towers were under Order control the city itself, reduced to ruin by centuries of conflict, could be rebuilt. However this still left the matter of the spinal-cavern. It lay beneath the ground, theoretically connected to all of the rib-towers and also of great import for it contained the [insert realmgate]. Yet in each of the towers those passages had been ominously sealed, leaving only one means of entrance; the main gateway that lay at the base of the godbeast's skull... *At the moment fluff states that no non-chaos human cities were left by the time the Stormcast came down, so having the city survive throughout as non-chaos would be against the cannon.