Sleepa

Oh sorry, I meant errata to fix the wording of "reroll failed saves" which currently doesn't let them reroll 4's when the incoming damage has rend. Don't Stormcast need even their screens to kind of carry their weight though? Something needs to hold objectives, and the army already starts at such a model-count deficit. My rationale is that a slightly higher investment could potentially be worth it if it means the unit can survive one additional round scoring an objective. Or is that just inherently flawed logic, since most objective scenarios only carry about model count in proximity, and SC can almost never stop even a 10-strong unit of filler from taking objectives from them? Do we (SC players) literally have to try to table or cripple our opponents in our current state right now? is objective play just not a practical strategy for our army?

What about something a little more conservative than Double Dragon? Maybe something like: Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsDrakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest Axe - General - Command Trait: Staunch Defender - Artefact: Ignax's Scales OR Sword of Judgement - Mount Trait: Storm-winged Lord-Castellant (120)Knight-Incantor (140)- Spell: Azyrite HaloKnight-Incantor (140)- Spell: Chain Lightning OR Stormcaller Lord Kroak (430) -> will be (320) - Allies 5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield 10 x Evocators (440)- Spell: Speed of Lightning Everblaze Comet (100) Suffocating Gravetide (20) Would still have +1 to casting for Kroak and the Incantors, for Comet/MW spam, but also has the 10-strong Evo unit to counter charge whatever your opponent sends at your casters.

What if they errata their channeling ability to let them reroll all saves? surely being able to reroll everything would increase their durability, and in turn their viability? Or when you say "screen", do you mean their job is to simply take up space between the enemy and your key units, and everything else on their warscroll is irrelevant?

Is this really the state of SC in the competitive meta? I love Sequitors, and really hate to go back to Libs after seeing how much more hitting power and durability they get for the 30 points(was 20 when I first tried them, and granted; even that felt pretty expensive). Is it just because 5-model SC battleline units get instantly erased by every serious competitive hammer? Strictly a matter of points-per-wound economy?

I was going to say my only suggestion is to try and find a way to get 20 dryads in your units, since the get the +1 save as long as they have over 10 models. Two battalions in am interesting approach. You will have a wealth of artifacts and command points to work with. Let me know how it goes!oils interesting

At 750 points? Expect minimal battleline, probably 3 x 5 spite revs in Outcast battalion. Might see one brick of 20 dryads plus 2 units of 5 Tree Revs for the objective grabbing Probably a safe bet they bring at least one Branchwraith, so you'll probably see Dryad summons Odds are they will take 3-6 Kurnoths as their Hammer, might support them with an Arch Revenant. Hey weird question, but is your escalation league in Canada? I just joined one as well!

You could run Gnarlroot, take Prismatic Palisade and try to get as many Wyldwoods as possible summoned in front of your opponent's gun-lines and casters. take advantage of the LoS restrictions from the Wyldwoods, and their "Roused by Wrath" rules to potentially punish them for casting. If you park a TLA toward the middle of the map IN A WYLDWOOD, you could try to stack Throne on it every turn to guarantee your Wood drops or its unique spell. Two stacks of Throne plus the +1 cast Stave, or the Gnarlroot Chalice, would give you a pretty indomitable caster.

As I understand it, they can move within 3" of enemy units to deny the charge. Bonus if you can swing them around so your opponent has to pile-in AWAY from your Raptor unit.

I was considering a LoTC Gnarlroot list with Drycha, so I'd be very curious to see what your current revision looks like @Trevelyan. My latest draft of the list was: Leaders TLA - 260 (General), Chalice, Regrowth TLA - 260 Gem, Harmony Drycha - 320 Probably Regrowth as well Battleline 5x Tree Revs - 80 5x Tree Revs - 80 5x Spite Revs - 60 30x Dryads - 270 Other 6x Scythe Hunters - 400 1x Treelord - 180 Battalions Lords of the Clan - 60 Endless Spells Quicksilver Swords - 30 Total points - 2000 Not sure if I should swap the swords and spites for a Branchwraith. I really like taking at least one big block of dryads, as they do a fantastic job of screening Drycha, and can be really hard to displace if I can plant some trees or make to my designated place of power. Maybe given how good shooting is these days, I should swap the Swords for a Prismatic Palisade. I figured it wouldn't be necessary since Wyldwoods can do a reasonable job of screening non-flying shooting. This iteration of my list only has 121 wounds, which is a bit light. It's definitely banking on Harmony and the healing putting in work. Would probably fold like wet paper to anything that can erase whole units in a single attack.

Thanks! Skinks are probably a great idea. I think I might wait until the new Seraphon book hits just to make sure their points/rules don't see drastic changes before I pick some up.

Oh yes, allies are allowed with all normal stipulations

*I'm moving my question to this thread, and asking the mods to delete the new thread I made. It seems like only the big topic threads in this forum get a lot of traction. I recently joined an escalation league, to give myself a motivational push to get more of my SC painted by the end of the summer. The way the league works is: At each point threshold, we are paired up and provided a pitched-battle mission. The league starts out at 750 points, and the first mission is "Knife to the Heart". We are free to submit a completely different army for each round of the league, so I need not commit to expanding on my choices for the first round. I'm asking for advice here, because I have literally no experience playing AOS games below 1000 points. The mission being "Knife to the heart" also complicates list-building for me, as a Stormcast player. Model-count is going to be a problem. My first instinct was to draft up something like: Lord Arcanum Lord Relictor 5x Sequitors 5x Sequitors 5x Evocators But I quickly realized that I'm going to need to keep a minimum of 5 models alive in order to hold either objective. So if I lose even one model from any squad contesting one of those objectives, I'm going to lose the option of that major victory. My current draft is looking like this: Lord Arcanum Lord Castellant 10x Sequitors 10x Liberators It's a dirt-simple list idea, but the plan is to sit the Libs and Castellant on my home objective, then deep strike the Arcanum and Sequitors (Depending on my opponent is on - I can make a new list for each round, but pairings are always blind to ensure no counter-play) to threaten their objective. Looking for some serious feedback here. Feel free to tear apart my thought-process thus far, if you think I'm off-base. I don't own really any Vanguard models, so no access to Aquilor, Hunters or Raptors. Thanks in advance for the help, folks!

Look at 'Big Waaagh' lists. They can pretty easily generate 16 Waaagh points by the combat phase of their second turn, and they get an army-wide +1 to hit rolls once they have at least 16 points. This is in an army that can take 5 Ardboys for 90 points, which are better than Liberators in almost every way. 2 attacks base, 3+/3+ -1 Rend, 1 damage. They have 2 wounds each and a 4+ save, with 4" move and Bravery 6. HOWEVER, their drummer adds 2 to charge rolls, and one of their banners makes them bravery 8. So they are actually better than Liberators in every single way, for 10 less points.

We can talk about it on public forums, support our opinions with facts and statistics; and hope that sales figures for Stormcast models decline enough to convince GW to address the issue. The model range is plenty big, and the sculpts range from fine to exceptional. All that needs redressing is the Battletome.

The Battletome/Warscrolls are pretty objectively in need of an overhaul. Yes, there are a few good units in the tome, but honestly people are really only using maybe 20% of the total unit options available, and that is largely due to many of them not really changing since Age of Sigmar's initial release... over 5 years ago. PJetski started a whole thread about gathering ideas for changes to bring the army's rules in line with other armies. It's called the: Stormcast Battletome Revamp Project

Maybe. Marauders are sold out in the GW online store ATM, so the new battletome either generated a TON of sales, or they aren't restocking these kits often, because the aren't a priority in their production queues.

It's a shame the warscrolls that received some of the more substantial buffs, didn't get new model release to support the rules updates. It feels counterintuitive from a marketing standpoint. I realize that warriors and knights were buffed as well, but if they weren't planning to update the model range, why not just phase out the old units? This is coming from someone who just isn't interested in fielding strong units at the cost of purchasing grossly outdated boxes of minis. I don't suppose the Battletome designers are given direction on which units to push, and which to change minimally? Actually, I'd almost prefer that, as it seems the alternative is the writer of the book just makes design changes arbitrarily, in order to curate a balanced army, with no regard to the practical accessibility of models.

I'm also a big fan of new Gnarlroot (At least compared to the other Glades in the new book). I enjoy Winterleaf, Dreadwood, Harvestboon (Really, all of them aside from Oakenbrow and Ironbark), but Gnarlroot is the only glade that has an ability, command ability, Command trait, and artifact that all impress me. Granted, the command ability is situational at best, and probably the softest perk of the Glade, but honestly Winterleaf is probably the only other Glade with multiple elements that also impress me (Exploding 6s plus the artifact). I too came from loving Gnarlroot in the old book, and find the thing I miss the most is the bonus spell casts. To me, it really felt like you couldn't really "pull off" Sylvaneth magic without a contingent of multi-casters. This has resulted in the +1 cast artifact in our new book, being the first thing I think about when I'm drafting up lists these days. I think GW really missed the mark by leaving the TLA as a single-caster, as well as not completely revamping the Branchwych warscroll to make her some kind of viable and desirable wizard (Honestly, does any EVER want to take her in a list? Ever? As far as I can tell, her literal sole purpose is to be a Battalion tax). All that being said, I think our current incarnation of Gnarlroot has some serious play, although I have to admit: I am straight up terrified of facing off against Tzeentch, Nagash, or Khorne; and having all of my spellcasting (And essentially my army) utterly invalidated.

I think you probably have enough battleline, but could use a bit more firepower. I think you should cut your Skulltake Battlion, combine your two units of Skullreapers, and maybe add a unit of Wrathmongers to support either the Skullreapers or the Bloodletters. That would give you two hammers with some real potential to do some damage.

I drafted up a Goretide list with a Chaos Lord on Karkadrak just the other day! Haven't tested it, but this is what my first draft looks like: Leaders Chaos Lord on Karkadrak - General Command Trait: Hew the Foe Artifact of Power: Dimensional Blade Bloodsecrator Artifact of Power: Thronebreaker's Torc Slaughterpriest: Killing Frenzy Slaughterpriest: Bronzed Flesh Bloodstoker Battleline 10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes 10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes 10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes 10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes 10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes Other Units 5x Wrathmongers 5x Wrathmongers 10x Skullreapers 5x Chaos Knights /w Lances Warscroll Battalions Dark Feast Judgements of Khorne Hexgorger Skulls

Astreia Solbright is also locked into Hammers of Sigmar, so she wouldn't benefit from the abilities of any other Stormhost; nor can she be given a command trait (same way she can't take a mount trait). It's really too bad all the Stormcast named characters are Hammers of Sigmar. I only ever see people field Gav, and the occasional Vandus. The base LAoCD has a pretty mediocre warscroll spell, and yet Astreia's is somehow much worse? She has the command ability of a LAoGC, which is fine, but not the reason you'd take a LA on a Dracoline. She honestly probably the worst of all LA variants. Even though the LA on foot has the most dubious command ability in the book, they still unlock Sequitor battleline for 160 points, and can benefit from Stormhosts and command traits. It doesn't help that aside from Gav, there is nothing desirable about the other named characters in SC. Vandus has great abilities, but he's honestly over-costed by at least 100 points

Yeah exactly. Khorne loses so much of its teeth if you kill the heroes and buffing units. Buffed Bloodletters are truly dangerous, but kill the bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers, and those same Bloodletters will have a hard time killing more than 3 models a turn, assuming you have like a 4+ armor save.

I 100% recommend Iron Jawz if you're a new player looking for a satisfying melee army. Iron Jawz are a very fun, very effective melee army, and give you the added versatility of being taken as either dedicated Iron Jawz, or as part of the Big Waaagh. You have durable, hard-hitting unites, good cavalry, and one of the most intimidating Monsters in the game (Megaboss on a Maw Crusha). BoK on the other hand are in a strange place right now. The strongest versions seem to be either Daemon-focused build running multiple Bloodthirsters, or a Mortal list built around buffing Archaeon and using him to double-pile in and erase huge chunks of opposing armies. The rank-and-file mortal Blades of Khorne lists don't seem to have the punch to really threaten a lot of the most popular armies being played, are very vulnerable to shooting, and tend to fall apart when their support heroes die. I think you'd probably get fairly discouraged if you put together a mortal Khorne list that didn't include Archaeon. It's a very puzzle-y army, and requires a substantial amount of skill to pilot, since you will probably need to win from strong objective play, not combat.

As others have mentioned; Blades of Khorne (especially mortals) are very vulnerable to shooting, lose a LOT of power if their support heroes get picked off, and are pretty vulnerable to Battleshock (if several units lose a few models, the Khorne player will have some tough decisions, because they have no battleshock immunity without spending CP) Bloodthirsters also don't tank that much damage. They only have a 4+ armor save and no ward save. The daemon prince is a fantastic unit with a powerful command ability, but if your opponent doesn't equip him/her with a damage-boosting artifact; he won't wipe out any units on his own.

I'll pitch in my two cents and tell you how to recognize a horrible spell lore; redundancy and (as previously mentioned) unreliability. Case in point: The Stormcast Lore of the Storm. This is probably the poorest designed spell lore in the game. 5 of the 6 spells are just various flavours of "deal between 1 to D3 mortal wounds to SOME number of targets". The 6th spell is a defensive buff which causes the unit it is cast on to deal mortal wounds to any unit attacking them in combat phase, for each unmodified save roll of a 6. This is also the OVERWHELMINGLY most common spell chosen from the lore. It doesn't even grant an actual defensive bonus to the unit it's cast on, but at least has some synergy with some of the defensive abilities available to certain Stormcast units. The rest of the spells.... You have an unlimited range Arcane Bolt that automatically targets the closest unit the caster can see (and always deals d3 MW), a "Choose a point within 12" of the caster, then all enemy units (NOT MODELS) are dealt ONE MW on a die roll of a 4+ " AoE spell, an even shorter range "Roll a die for every enemy unit (AGAIN, NOT MODEL) within 6" of the caster (and visible to them), then on a 4+ the unit suffers 1 MW and gets -1 to hit for attack until your next hero phase" (Would be a good spell, but requires your wizard to literally be in combat and STILL ALIVE in your hero phase. We also have a 24" range, "deal d3 MW to one unit visible to the caster, then roll a die for each unit (AGAIN, NOT MODEL) within 3" of the target, and on a 4+ those units suffer 1 MW", which again probably seems good (honestly only compared to the first two here), except for the fact that it needs a 7 to cast, in an army that literally needs to take a goddamned dragon, or a once-per-game artifact in order to get a +1 to casting rolls (which is the best bonus they can get), and finally another AoE spell, that AGAIN requires a 7 to cast, and gives you a chance to hit every enemy unit on the battlefield! Oh but wait; it only affects each unit if you then roll a 6 on a single die roll for each enemy unit, at which point they suffer D3 wounds. TL:DR? Want to know how to evaluate your spell lore? Don't ask me. Every time I see a new spell lore, all I can think is "Sweet Jesus, I'd trade the Lore of the Storm for those spells without batting an eye."