Liquidsteel

Artefacts and Command Traits have a specific rule in the core rules that say they don't apply to the mount. Spells don't have this restriction. As far as I'm aware, spells and abilities do, and always have, applied to both caster and mount.

Really like this list, I've got plans to run something similar once I get 5-10 more Blood Knights painted. Haven't had a chance to try Vhordrai in 3.0 myself yet. Could you see yourself trying to get an extra unit of Blood Knights in there perhaps? I've got to decide on my list for the upcoming two day event we have here. As mentioned previously its my first 2 dayer and I'm aiming first and foremost to have fun, so I'm taking a Nagash and friends hero hammer list. I've opted to include the Umbral Spellportal, because setting up some nice drama with Hand of Dust sounds great. The choice is down to Nagash, Mannfred and Vengorian Lord in either Night or Kastelai, or Nagash, VLoZD and Belladamma in Vyrkos. Then 3 units of chaff.

Yeah I was intrigued by it being Kastelai. I watched some of the stream but he was only on for round 1 and got bodied by Sons of Behemat. I'd love to know the full round scores if anyone spots them. I played a version of this list the other week, but with a unit of Blood Knights and 2 x 10 Skellies over 3 x 20 Zombies. Not enough games to get a feel for it yet. I think I get the concept behind Zombies. They have more wounds and you can use Mannfred to give them +1 attack, hit and wound. Plus their pile in tricks, and by being aggressive you can have Endless Legion start working for you. My conundrum with Nagash is do I want Spell Portal and/or Lifeswarm. Both add so much value to him, Spellportal forces opponent to think whether they can move an important model within 21" and Lifeswarm helps keep him topped up alongside heroic recovery and soul stealer etc. You could downgrade to 1 x 20 Zombies and 2 x 10 Skeletons to fit an endless spell in. I think this list could also be Legion of Night. Mannfred becomes a General and you have the option of Unholy Impetus to provide an additional +1 attack. Could switch Vengo for Necromancer or Wight King on Steed and run Morbhegs Claw with slightly more bodies even, can fit Portal in this way. Levitate to make Zombies fly. Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords- Lineage: Legion of Night- Mortal Realm: Shyish- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery- Triumphs: BloodthirstyLeadersNagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970)Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380)*- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine PinionsNecromancer (125)*- General- Command Trait: Master of Magic- Artefact: Morbheg's Claw- Universal Spell Lore: LevitateBattleline40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230)*- Reinforced x 110 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)*10 x Dire Wolves (135)*Endless Spells & InvocationsUmbral Spellportal (70)Core Battalions*Battle RegimentTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 1 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 103Drops: 2

Haha that's another list I was discussing with someone in the WhatsApp group! Regarding gravesites, remember you don't need the hero to be near it anymore, works fine.

I was hoping others might also throw some list ideas in to the mix also! The Nagash, Mannfred, Vengorian list seems to have performed well at a major event here in the UK, so I was trying to build off of that a little bit but work the Spellportal back in, because I want to have that excitement of Hand of Dust.

I have a 2 day tournament 21st/22nd August coming up at our FLGS here in Liverpool, 40 man and competition is going to be fierce. It's my first 2 day tournament ever, with two more booked in for later this year already, so I've decided to try and not take it too serious and play a list I can maximise enjoyment and getting to know new players with. Nagash is definitely being brought along, but who do I bring with him? I posted in the main thread, however it didn't get much discussion going. I only have 5 Blood Knights painted, so heavy BK Kastelai Nagash is out. I am not going to bring too many models to ensure I can play fast and get to those later rounds, where hopefully I can edge a lead on Battle Tactics, so hero hammer and focussing on Battle Tactics is the name of the day. Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords - Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty Leaders Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970)* Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435) - General - Deathlance - Command Trait: Hunter's Snare - Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact) - Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)* - Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb Battleline 10 x Dire Wolves (135)* 10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)* 10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)* Endless Spells & Invocations Umbral Spellportal (70) Core Battalions *Battle Regiment Total: 1980 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 79 Drops: 2

You mean Legion of Night?

It's Kastelai, battleline Blood Knights and outflanking are limited to that Dynasty only.

Honestly, pretty much all Gravelords units are worth using in some capacity. Black Knights are probably the only unit not seeing much use. It has options for a number of playstyles, bar shooting. So whichever way you want to go, it's kind of hard to go wrong.

Nice ideas, though bear in mind you can't put Avengorii Terrorgheists or Zombie Dragons in to the Alpha Beast Pack battalion, as they are Conditional Battleline and thus lose the BEHEMOTH battlefield role when they gain BATTLELINE. Triple VLoZD sounds cool, I ran a triple mounted king list in FEC that was lots of fun. Being -1 to wound is quite potent; I guess the tradeoff is whether they would be better in Kastelai and having access to the level up mechanic, especially if you throw Vhordrai in to the mix?

Having painted up Nagash last week, I took him out for a spin over the weekend. I actually managed to get 3 games in overall, first with a non Nagash Vyrkos list vs Nurgle, followed by a Legion of Night Horde Nagash list vs Helon Lumineth (Sev, Windmage, 2 Foxes, 30 Sentinels, 10 Windchargers) then more hero-hammer Kastelai Nagash list vs a Munificent Wanderers Nurgle list. Vyrkos Nagash in Night (Horde) Kastelai Dynasty (Hero/Monster) This list did well at Mancunian Carnage event, not my creation I really liked Hunters Snare VLoZD, being able to smash something on an objective and force it off someone, then still be in control when they try to take it back is great. I had success retreating him so he kept a toe on it, still counting as 14. Belladama is also quite annoying for the opponent, being relatively safe when next to her trusty wolves and messing with the opponent with lycancurse, or providing exploding 6s to the VLoZD. Of the two Nagash lists, I preferred the second, more hero hammer list, I think because I am already tired of pushing around so many 25mm bases. Having 3 monsters allows you to rack up the additional VPs from battle tactics, especially when you combine the speed. With the horde list, I got lucky and rolled a 5+ on endless legions, allowing me to score a battle tactic that I would otherwise have not been able to get (2 units in opponents territory), however with zippy monsters such as Mannfred, this is much easier. I did miss the spell portal and hand of dust combo, however without it that's an extra 2 Arcane Bolts, for an average of 4 more mortals, and I really played him aggressive, moving forward and charging in. So taking all of that and putting something new together with the "best bits", here is a Nagash and VLoZD list I'd like to try, in Vyrkos with Belladamma along for the ride. With the casting potential, Bella can almost guarantee Metamorphosis so you still have 3 monsters to score those additional battle tactic VPs, and a VLoZD with reroll 1s time is going to be super tanky whilst still doing decent damage. Sangsyron is perhaps a luxury choice, and Amulet of Destiny might be the better play, as that 5+ ward feels like such an improvement over the regular 6+ deathless. Is this the best way to play Soulblight, or even Nagash, no probably not. However I think it could be a lot of fun, and when playing 5 games over 2 days in the tournament I have next month, could mean we can definitely wrap up the games in the 2.5 hours and is less strenuous to play. Curious to hear your thoughts on my ramblings.

The battle tactic calls for objectives "wholly within" and not "within". We had this come up recently, there are some battleplans where there is no-mans land in between territories (11" rather than 22" territories). We came to the conclusion that on those battleplans where the territories meet, the objectives are considered to be within both, and thus not wholly within either, but for those battle plans where the objectives sit on the edge of your 11" deployment, they are wholly within and thus don't count for the tactic.

Yeah I stand corrected, was still thinking they happened between turns, thanks.

I don't think Nurgle will take Archaon, well they might but they don't need him to still be strong. Nurgle is powerful because of it's resilience right now, and the tricks they can do with Farts. Sit on objectives, take the hits, remove models to within 3" and stand still. Opponent can't pile in so will need to waste a turn retreating, unless they have ways around it.

Yeah, whilst Geminids doesn't apply in the Combat phase, so can't stop saves there, it does stop commands being issued in Hero, Movement, Shooting and Charge phases. The Hero phase is something I hadn't considered before. I can imagine it really messing up people's day if you get it to hit something that's putting out a good command ability, such as Daughters of Khaine fight in the hero phase etc,

No, as already mentioned above, you always had 1 mount trait + 1 additional for taking a warscroll battalion. It's essentially the same when taking Warlord/Command Entourage here, except you are limited to one choice from Artefact/Mount Trait etc

@Honk Only Troops can go in to Hunters of of the Heartlands. It's also 2 min and 3 max so can't do 4 units anyway. So the Crypt Ghast Courtier and Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon would need to go in to a different battalion.

I think it depends, I've been experimenting with a few different lists the last couple of weeks. I've ran Legion of Night horde with Mannfred, Legion of Night horde with Nagash, Vyrkos Horde with Radukar, VLoZD and Bella, and most recently, monster mash Kastelai with Nagash, Mannfred, Vengorian, 1x5 Blood Knights and 2 x 10 Skeletons. The latter was a list that did well at a recent large event here, that I wanted to emulate. Weird no Spell Portal with Nagash, but I basically threw him forward with the extra Arcane Bolts as opposed to Portal and Hand of Dust. With Nagash magic is pretty consistent, and opponents find it hard to cast. I played in to Helon with the Fox, Windcharger, Sentinel spam, and with only 3 casts I was pretty much shutting down every one of his magic phases.

If I were to run FEC right now I would still take two GKoRTG. Take Command Entourage and fill it with an AAR plus a Varghulf. Then second GKoRTG goes in a Battle Regiment with your troops. 4 drops and you can still give both the Gruesome Bite trait.

That was always the case, you gained additional mount traits for each Warscroll Battalion, which no longer exist. If you want a second Mount Trait, you need to take a Warlord of Command Entourage Battalion and select an additional mount trait.

You can get it to last two turns, if the opponent goes bottom of the round and they either take, or you give them, the double

I don't think so, as you still declare that they are making a "run", you just don't actually roll for it. However it is worded a bit strange.

@mmimzie Yeah I have the minimagtrays and all my units are magnetised in my magnarack, I'm a bit magnet mad. You are definitely correct in being less efficient in pile in, for stuff like skellies and zombies missing 3-4 models worth of attacks might not be the end of the world, but for stuff like Grave Guard every single model counts. The trays can be quite fiddly when it comes to removing casualties, can see Skellies being very annoying taking them off and back on multiple times a round, but for ease of speeding up movement and initial combat maybe I'll start using them again. I played a 1500 point game vs a beginner (fangs of sotek seraphon with 60 skinks, he's going in deep) on a battleplan that started you 22" apart. I simply dropped my VLoZD to make the list fit. I had choice and didn't want to go second turn 1 because he would just shoot off my heroes, however with just Radukar, Blood Knights and Dire Wolves I had no way to get in to combat with him apart from Belladamas Lyncancurse through a portal. Even giving wolves the pile in from 6" from bella and auto run 6 was too far out to engage, so those extra few inches of movement really count. I think a fast unit is key, unless you're going sit back and soak style. I did miss his threat range.

Something worth considering, aside from what is strongest, is how quickly can you actually pilot your list? I've been running quite heavy on bodies with my lists, maybe only around 8 games or so played of 3.0 and around 10-15 with Soulblight in general. I never got in to TTS as just don't enjoy it. I've usually had around 80-120 bodies on the board, depending on the list. Most games are not done in 2.5 hours, it took around 4 hours in my last game just to get to turn 4 (this was vs Slaanesh). Most games are around turn 3 usually after 3 hours or so. It's not just the movement of big units like zombies, but also checking buff ranges, working out how best to set stuff up from out of the grave etc. I've used movement trays in the past and they're great at the start, but once you get in to combat they can be really tricky when you're trying to do optimum pile ins on 25mm bases (two ranks) especially as the ones I'm using are magnetic. In casual games this is fine, but I have tournaments starting from next month and I need to speed up to get to later turns to ensure proper scoring and battle tactics. I don't own enough Blood Knights yet, so first tournament will still be quite hordey, however I definitely think I will prefer and do better with fewer units and less bodies. Something like Nagash, Lord, 3x5 Blood Knights, 1x40 Zombies, Portal in Kastelai.

@Iron Fist I'm not sure why you'd take that list as Vyrkos, only the Vampire Lord on foot gets access to the casting re-rolls, and you're hardly making use of the +1 to wound ability as you only have 1 Vyrkos Vampire and neither Zombies nor Dire Wolves can use it that much (zombies just fish for 6s to hit, Dire Wolves get +1 via charging anyway). The 3" from spoor trackers is good for that threat range but I'm not sure it's worth going Vyrkos for it alone. You're also 80 points under. You could drop 1 unit of dire wolves for another unit of Blood Knights and just run it as Kastelai.