gronnelg
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Posts posted by gronnelg
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What do you guys think about this list? I obviously have OBR in mind, but it think it could work against other armies too?
Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey Seer (140)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale
Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
Units
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 162
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OK. So sniping the harvesters is really the first step. And then some more shooting for the mortek guards themselves. @Gwendardo you find that a Skaven list tuned to kill OBR can still compete against other armies in a tournament?
@Skreech Verminkingwhat is this - 3 rend weapon of which you speak?
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So guys. I had my first games against OBR the other day. Mortek guard in petrifex. Damn. They simply cannot be killed. The harvester close by didn't help. I charged them with stormvermin (ubbuffed due to circumstances) and ended up killing four. Yes, you read that right.
So takeaway points for me: you cannot fight an OBR army. We have to use movement shenanigans, and play the objective game.
How are people dealing with OBR?
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If you can heal up to three wounds, or return a number of slain models with a combined wounds characteristic of 3 wounds or less, then you can only return 1 model with two wounds, right? E.g. Arkhans ability.
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@Riff_Raff_RascalIs there anything more to the +3 move?
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So wait, are Legion of Azgorh getting a battletome? When?
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Finally the warscroll! Can someone mathhammer the new warscroll? Which is better - staves of blades?
@Ineffectual Clawlord ?
Edit: Oh wait guys.... From the wording it seems that even with blade and stave, you only use one the attack characteristics, instead of both as it was before? -
16 hours ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said:
Try to approach this from the perspective of the OBR player. Pretty much everything that Skaven normally bring is really scary, except for Plague Monks, and Crawlers are the only real answer against most of the threats. They are a good unit that is exceptional against Skaven. In your list however, his one or two catapults have to: kill the AW, Warpfire throwers and SF. They also want to shoot the SV and maybe kill some Clanrats to protect objectives.
You can either just take the damage and ignore the catapults, or change your list in order take a counter unit (Doomwheel, Deceiver, Gutter Runners, Pistoleers, Warpgrinder...) and force him to put Guards there to protect it. If you put one or two offensive Gnawholes, depending on the scenario, that's already a lot of board space to protect for your opponent.
You can take a look at this damage table. Yes, prayers increase their damage by a lot, and it can put out a surprising number of mortal wounds. However, Bells are just great for their price and I prefer them both for the aura and thematic reasons.
Death Frenzy is the only spell you need from the lore of ruin, Warpgale or Plague are just nice things to have.
Both are popular options, but it's not mandatory as PM are great even without buffs.
Those are some very valid points! So I guess unless he goes all in on the crawlers I should be able to cope. Also an insightful point about crawlers being good in general, but very good against Skaven. In tournament settings an OBR player would still have to make a balanced all round list, and not go all in on crawlers.
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Guys - how do you feel about taking plague monks, without taking a plague furnace?
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@Skreech VerminkingThanks for the feedback. I thought that since I was getting stormvermin (and clanrats), then the clawlord would be nice. But as you see it, the clawlord doesn't add much to this list? I fear that the stormvermin will be ineffctive against mortek guards. In pretrifex I believe they get 3+ rerolling against melee? So even stormvermin buffed by the clawlord might not be enough.
What scares me the most are mortek crawlers though. With the special attacks he could take out insane amounts of clanrats and stormvermin. And with their regular shoots minor heroes aren't safe. Which is why I gave my clawlord verminous valor, and buffer my warlock bombardier to an arch-warlock with gryph feather charm. I need the arch warlock alive to buff my stormfiends! To some extent I guess the warpfire throwers work as DISTRACTION CARNIFEX for the crawlers. Possible letting other important units survive another turn. -
How does the following list looks against OBR? (he told me his list isn't super optimal)
Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Leaders
Clawlord (100)
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait: Verminous Valour
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Stormvermin (450)
- Halberd
Units
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
6 x Stormfiends (520)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 186 -
@KramerI just wanted to hear other peoples opinions, to help me make up my mind. I hadn't even thought about finding one of the older threads. My bad
A lot of insightfull comments in here. Thanks guys!
Personally I've had a lot of fun with the double turn, but then also some games that were basically over after a double. But at the same time I'm not good enough to really plan around the potential double turn. What people say about 40k being predictable sounds even more dreadful to me than the double turn though.
And for now it's an official part of the game, so I guess I'll just have to learn to play around it
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I had come to embrace the double turn. Then recently talked to a friend. We both prefer close, exciting games. Now, somtimes the double turn has led to exactly that - an uneven game is suddenly even. But oftentimes a double turn will be THE deciding factor as to who wins. You were equal, now someone has pretty much won.
Is the double turn - a signel dice roll - to much of a factor in deciding who wins?Also, sorry but bringing up this topic again
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Well, deciever will do more damage, sure. But against a 4+ save (that becomes no save with -3 rend) you're still looking at an expected damage output in the range of 4-6. Which is nothing compared to the plague monks. Verminlords aren't primarly damage dealers. They can kill lesser heroes though (5 wounds heroes), and the deciever will do a better jobb at that for sure.
As for dreaded warpgale, with master of magic you can get it down to 7+. And then if you're close to a gnawhole you can get it down to 6+. And with that juicy 26" range you can stand at your home gnawhole and still hit stuff.
But the deciever is a cool unit for sure. You could even build a list around it. Dreaded skitterleap, and then skitterleap. You could get two verminlord up in the opponents face. Then add in a unit moving through the gnawholes, and spice it even further with some gutter runners. Now you're suddenly looking at a skaven alpha strike list
Bonus points for putting an assasin in the gutter runners
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@KimboThe warpseer is more resilient, has a good command ability, and has a good damage spell with an impressive range (d6 MW, and reduses enemy movement). He's also masterclan, which means he get command points back on a 5+, and he generates extra CP on a 3+ at the start of the hero phase. Being master clan also gives him access to command trait master of magic and the artefact suspecious stone giving him an extra 5+ feel no pain (for a total of 4+ 4+ 5+ 5+, making him VERY durable). Dread skitterleap is the only thing the deciever has going for him (well, the -2 to hit makes him harder to snipe though...). And you can still put skitterleap on the screaming bell, to send the warpseer behind enemy lines, if you want to do that
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Does anyone have any experience with night runners? They only have a 6+ save, and they have terrible damage output. The pre-battle movement could be nice though. Either as an extra layer of screen, or early game objective deniers (I say deniers because you could typically grab midfield with clanrats anyway).
And 80 points for 10 is a huge investment either. -
@KimboI think 12 jezzails is a pretty big investment for a unit that is primarly meant to threaten/kill lesser heroes, or assist on bigger ones. They're also pretty frail, so making them 12 makes them an even juicier target. Also they have pretty much the same role as the WLC. So I would make it 6-9 jezzails. If you also remove the WLC, you can put in a plague furnace instead, to buff your plague monks. That leaves enough point to bump one of the clanrat units up to 40. I would also change the Verminlord, as I don't feel the deciever does much for this list. The warpseer is generally the preferred all-round verminlord.
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GW try to write their rules in a way that in can understood literally. So when they write "models" they mean models, and not units. So based on the rules you quoted the -1 to hit affects models within 2" of the netters. The rest of the units is unaffected.
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Ah, dangit... So that means I would need both types of dice then, or do people still play with only the original types?
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Here on TGA I often see the ad for scenery dice. The dice seem to contain types I'm not familiar with. Volcanic? Healing? Commanding?
Are there new rules concerning scenery effects? -
@Ineffectual ClawlordThanks for that great reply! Lot of good ideas there. I oftentimes play against a SCE player, with Gavriel Sureheart, and a bunch of evocators. Gavriel and the evocators being up in the skies. He will then dangle that threat over my head until he sees at weakness in my positioning, then drop down and kill a lot of important things. While waiting for Gavriel he has several units of judicators sniping off minor units, and softening larger ones. I guess what I should be doing is taking some small early lead pointswise, and then from there screening is the name of the game basically?
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@GwendarCan we have pics of your conversions? I want to make some myself at some point. Monkey skaven are not to my taste
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As Skaven we usually get outdropped. For me that has typically meant I'm made to go first. How do you guys work around going first, and the possibility of your opponent getting the double from 1st to 2nd round?
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@Ineffectual ClawlordReroll only works in melee. Omg! I missed that. That is in fact huge! Shooting it is
AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion
in Skaven
Posted
@GwendarI really fear mortek crawlers. As the OBR player will get to choose who goes first, I'm likely losing half my jazzails, acolytes, or both, before they can do anything. I made the grey seer my general, to give him verminous valour, so he can survive one regular shot from a crawler. But yeah, ideally vigourdust for increased damage output.