Scurvydog

Why is meatshields an issue? Ardboyz are now 14 pts per model, that is 7 points per wound, with a 4+ save and with a shield they got that 6+ ignore wound save as well. You can't really get much more point efficient meatshields than that really. Same with Bonesplitterz also being one of the highest amount of wounds per point, meatshields is the last thing Orruks need compared to every other area.

While bonesplitterz are OK I do not really think model range wise combining these 2 forces provide much, both got a shaman hero, a boss on foot, OK tough but slow guys on foot, guys on pigs. Unlike Gloomspite and Beasts the model ranges of the 2 urruk factions does not really cover any holes but mostly just overlap, which is a shame. Both ranges need a unit or two to spice things up a bit.

I would not get my hopes up for that and I do not really find them all that realistic, +1 save to everything would be sort of madness with a 2+ hero on behemoth... helloooo ethereal amulet... Not going to happen I hope for far more diversity in tactics and playstyles rather than just raw power. We are not very mortal wound vulnerable really, with multi wound models across the board nad usually a good price per wound, even less so for bonesplitterz models, which are even more point per wound efficient against mortal wounds. I would like compeltely different command abilities and everything Whaagh related built into that new mechanic they talked about. For each Clan I really like the fyreslayer format, putting emphasis on the aspects you enjoy with the twists lodges/clans provide. With so few models, it is a really interesting way to stretch their use and potential more, like the fyreslayer lodge giving more run and movement in general, or the one with more hero artifacts and command ability which lets more heroes close to each other strike at the same time, or the magmadroth one, where you can have more behemoths and more mount traits. I can see this baked into the core ideas of our current battalions. We do not need more rend, attacks, save or anything if the army as a whole gets more tactical options. I really hope that the whaag bubble is removed so we can spread out our forces and play the objective game.

Well it will be interesting to see how that works, summoning depends a lot on when and where you can summon, an unlike seraphon and demons etc I do not see Orruks just materialising out of thin air, but if you have to wait a turn or two for points to summon something, and then got to go in from a table edge, well then a new unit of ardboyz will not see much action I think, but I will look forward to see how they explain/handle that. Most importantly make Gordrakk great (not again, he was never great sadly)

Aw really, yes summoning is strong, but it feels like they introduce it everywhere and the pessimist voice in me says that this is an indirect way to have everyone not just buy a 2k army, but also a 500-1000 pts sideboard to summon in as well, makes good business sense. But just look at Khorne, where blood tithe is both effects and summoning, and the way the game is played, getting more models on the board is nearly always best, which is a bit of a shame. I'd like the Whaag energy to empower shaman spells, or make the boyz way more dangerous. Oh well, I guess anything is better than the current stacking in a blob "mechanic" but summoning will be a disappontment to me regardless if true, I'd prefer different options to manipulate the battlefield. I guess I am looking a gift horse in the mouth though

The way they talk about Whaag energy and ways to build and use it sounds interesting. It sounds a bit like Blood Tithe, and could very well be almost a copy paste, with the more fighting the more points to use for different effects. I do hope it is somewhat interactive and not just a static system like DoK. I am looking forward to see how this pans out. They did manage to make some interesting stuff with fyreslayers despite a limited model range, the lodges etc can vastly change how the army plays and I hope that will be true to IJ as well (if we look past that 1 fyreslayer battalion which is better than all else). Will be interesting to see how IJ will work alone and then together with BS, considering there will be 3 allegiances in the book. Very much looking forward to see new warscrolls, they are badly needed, altough a bit disappointed with no models announced. Same goes for the new cities of sigmar too, had hoped for some proper AoS age regular humans/empire update. Maybe we will see a new hero or some such in a box set down the line instead.

The new rumour engine looks in line with that lion shown at warhammerfest.

I like the Live to Fight trait, it is very important for the MK to wreck whatever it charges which also rolls into smashin and bashin, we want the MK to lead a charge, utterly destroy something and then instantly attack with something else, that is the ideal scenario and I feel live to fight adds the most damage which will allow this to happen. Yes d3 mortals on the charge can also be nice, and help trigger rampage, but that will still be rare and the average damage is lower than live to fight. It does help though if your intend is to not fight first with the MK and deal damage before the combat phase. Hysh seems so important for the brooch now I can hardly see me picking anything else, other than for fun. Mirrored curiass will be a good idea at any time for the MK, but a super offensive build could also be fun, especially in an ironsunz battalion, giving the boss choppa metal rippas klaw could be good, as he starts with d3 additional attacks, so will have 5-7 attacks with that weapon.

The newer reports from rerolling ones strike the best balance by far in my opinion, quickly becoming my favourite channel for all kinds of battle reports really. The latest games bringing in tournament players, winning tournament players at that, changes everything and not only do they know their rules, but show of a deeper understanding and cool tactics, while keeping the production quality and feel close to MWG at the same time. Impressive and massive kudos to them.

I am very on the fence with GMG, maybe I am unlucky with the ones I want to watch, but the games I see from them are with extremely poor lists, especially every single nighthaunt game on their channel can in no way be used for inspiration for anything, and they can hardly name any models correctly and get half the rules wrong. They get their hands on pretty models and battlefields and decent recording quality, but like MWG you have to endure a lot of facepalms when they keep forgetting critical allegiance abilities for example. Even Ironjawz they got wrong and they have like 1 rule to keep track of and 3 different units. When a game ends with statements like "Yea the outcome might have been different if I remembered these 7-9 critical rules then..." you can't really use it for much and I will have closed it down long before that. It is fine casual content, and it i always nice with content creators for the hobby, but it is a breath of fresh air when you see a guest who just knows what they are doing.

Keeping an eye on this topic, I really enjoyed the newer more competetive games from rerolling ones, they do very fun and fluffy things and are now showcasing highly competitive vs competitive lists. A recent one was an Ironjawz tournament player bringing an impressive turn 1 bomb vs a stomrcast shoot list, which was a slaughter in the start, but ended far more even with few models left standing all in all, very interesting to watch. Watching a very casual narrative game is an entirely different experience than watching a well thought out matched play battle, and as the OP mentions, these are hard to come by. I often look for games with some of my factions (Ironjawz, seraphon), and often see completely nonsensical lists and the player forgetting half the rules, which makes it even more painful to watch. A channel with experienced players who actually know what units are named and do not have to look up warscrolls every single time, will be highly appreciated, especially if recorded with a half decent video camera, which seems to be an issue for many wargaming youtubers unfortunately (I don't blame them for this, but many batreps are very poorly recorded).

Eh players who play FeC like that just plays to win anyway. Let him win fast and proceed to play a real game with someone else

This was made by a TW youtuber in the 1st of April.

I don't know how much you can plan ahead of knowing to face FeC, but a good idea there would be to get a Mawkrusha, then combo him with additional mortal wounds or reroll wounds on the charge and give him the doppelganger cloak realm artifact. With mighty destroyers being a sure command ability, you can fly the MK 24" so a charge first should be easy in most cases, this is then average 4 mortal wounds from destructive bulk and then you are also sure to get some hits in first. On average with the reroll to wound on charge, you will put 12 damage on him, and along with the 4 mortal wounds average charge, odds are good you will simply destroy him like this. It takes some work, but if you pull that of, you basically won the game at that point. I very much agree here, the brutes are the real face of the ironjawz, in the lore they ARE the ironjawz, while the ardboyz might as well be called fanboyz tagging along. Hopefully a new book will differentiate them more. Still not like they made the brutes worse, but with their current rules 160 pts would have been a better fit. I don't like just reducing points in the long run though, as the Ironjawz should be elite and not move towards even more horde just because of poor warscroll balance, there are other greenskinz to play for hordes.

3 unsolved rumour engines showing scales, some lizard like leg/tail area and also one with a crude stone spear, all these would fit rather well to wyvern riding bonesplitterz... Very rarely we see artwork of factions fighting that includes stuff with no model like this.

As mentioned in a general discussion thread about the GHB, I think it makes a lot of sense that points are not changed too drastically, even thought it will balance things out better on paper here and now. If I was to set points for the mawkrushas right now, it would more likely be something similar to 360 for the standard MK and then Gordrakk at 440, but then people buy their armies at these discounts, but what then when a new book finally comes and returns points and model power to where they should be. Points alo dictate shopping lists for people, so GW will end up with unhappy customers if they change too much and too often. I don't get why they do not update warscrolls more from time to time though. Sometimes they do changes nobody asks for, and the next day they suddenly do not want to touch warscrolls. As also a seraphon player, I was baffled by a change to the astrolith bearer warscroll around christmas, suddenly changing the buff range to "wholly within" out of nowhere. If they can do those changes without any rhyme or reason, why not do something sensible and update a weak warscroll? If they only want to do small changes, then a fix to Whaagh would be better, it is a clunky ability at best and at the very least should just be changed to be used in the combat phase, so it also works defensively in the opponents turn, that would be a big deal with a small wording change. Gordrakk at that massive point cost should also have access to mighty whaagh, and his current command ability should just be a free once per game ability, I think that would make him much more seen in play, as he could then more effectively replace a regular Megaboss. Afraid we got to wait quite a bit for a book at this point, but as long as they create a foot of gork endless spell I am ok with a bit more waiting.

The count for 2 is only for the main mawkrusha boss. Still decent though.

Not like most need advice against Ironjawz but here goes anyway: Screen screen and screen. No amount of attacks from whaagh will help if the only target is skinks, ungors or whatever cheap chaff they are forced to run into. Both gruntas and especially mawkrushas which are the only units with any speed, got big bases and are easy to deny space. The MK can fly, but needs a LOT of space to land, especially in the movement phase to stay 3" away. The rest of the army is very slow, play against them like a worse version of fyreslayers as mentioned earlier. If any character has the aethorquartz brooch go for him, IJ are incredibly CP hungry. In GHB 19 all IJ heroes will also have a new command ability, so it is no longer enough to shut down the megaboss to deny most offensive power of the army.

I think I will try something like this, at least if fungoid is not increased more than 10 points Ironsunz and Bloodtoofs can be interchangeable, but I do not own a baleful realmgate. Artifacts is a bit up in the air. The boss skewer is not needed as much if running bloodtoofs instead. I'd love an aetherquartz brooch, but I also really like ignax and cloak for some survivability for the MK and the foot boss to get into position. It is what I ponder the most though, along with the trait, cant go wrong with ironclad, but both the charge traits have a place as well, looking at reroll to wound on charges on the MK makes that initial charge far more dangerous and averages for more than chance for d3 mortals. Allegiance: Ironjawz - Mortal Realm: Aqshy LEADERS Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420) - General - Command Trait : Ironclad - Choppa and Rip-tooth fist - Artefact : Ignax's Scales Orruk Megaboss (140) - Artefact : Thermalrider Cloak Orruk Warchanter (80) - Artefact : The Boss Skewer Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120) -hand of gork Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90) UNITS 10 x Orruk Ardboys (140) 10 x Orruk Ardboys (140) 5 x Orruk Brutes (170) - Pair of Brute Choppas 5 x Orruk Brutes (170) - Pair of Brute Choppas 6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280) - Pig-iron Choppas BATTALIONS Ironfist (160) Ironsunz (80) TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 137 LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 3/

Ah yea true, still they can easily get into good charging positions at least, with ironfist and bloodtoofs you got a 6+ charge at worst for brutes and 4+ for ardboyz. Biggest factor is relying on the weirdnob and also not getting stuff dispelled, as it is difficult to plan movement phases based on spell casts. Still we got a decent deal I think, but we will be craving CP more than ever now to get stuff done.

In your hero phase. But it opens a lot of shenanigans. Nothing stops you from doing a teleport hand of gork, then use the ironfist d6 move, as that just happens in the hero phase and does not specify when. If heroes are nearby you can then use CP to charge in, and another to fight if you wanted to, getting for example a unit of brutes to cross the board and hit things in the hero phase turn 1.

So we got an entire new spell lore, I guess that is the balance factor for weirdnobs now. The most interesting spell and probably chosen most of the time from now on will be the great hand of gork to deep strike our units, casting value 7 while close to IJ units will then be 5 or 6 most likely. Bash em lads for reroll to wound buff is also alright and Power of the Whaagh is probably the new go to spell for the weirdfist, as it deals out d3 mortal wounds to an enemy unit with 24" for each ironjaw unit within 18" of the caster that you roll a 3+ for and on a 6+ it is d6 mortal wounds. This has a lot of synergy with the weirdfist. Mighty destroyers is now a command ability for all IJ heroes, 12" normal 18" for general, works about the same as the old dice roll, but if a unit gets this within 3" of an enemy it can not only pile in but also attack in the hero phase! Banking CP for this can be devastating with double moves, hero phase charges etc. In some cases I can see it worth using 1 CP to charge in the hero phase if you are close enough and another CP to attack right away. Both super battalions are both cheaper and better. Ironsunz is the same both the Krusha now counts as having slain d3 heroes instead of 1. Bloodtoofs is also mostly the same, but most importantly all IJ units counts as 2 units when the MK uses mighty whaagh, which means you only need 2 units close to him for max effect! Liking this along with points reductions which opens up some new 2k builds as well. Only change to traits is a sad one though, ironclad is now reroll saves of 1 instead of reducing rend.

Any IJ cost change can only really be taken into a proper perspective when we know about any potential allegiance ability changes though, hoping for a preview tomorrow, fearing nothing is changed from GHB 18 at all though.

Actually I think the Megaboss on foot is one of the best costed units, yes 4" move is low, but at his point cost he is both the toughest and strongest around on the warscroll, however the most killy heroes in the game gets their power from allegiance abilities and command ability combos. Based purely on warscroll though, only the Bull Centaur heroes of Legion of Azgorh are as tough and killy for the points. The weirdnob shaman on the other hand is the first one which should have dropped in points, but perhaps we see some nice new allegiance abilties... perhaps a spell lore... one can dream.

I fear the allegiance abilities are just copy and paste from last year. I play Seraphon and Ironjawz and would love Seraphon to be playable with more than skink summoning, and for Ironjawz to not be a joke.