Inquisitorsz

Doesn't really work with this catapult... there's a -3 modifier when it's not wounded and you have to roll greater than the wounds characteristic. So things the size of dragons are completely safe until the catapult is almost dead, in which case you'd still need to roll 11 or 12 to kill a 14 wound monster. It's more of a problem against smaller heroes. But so is a unit of archers. 200 pts of shadow warriors or sisters of the watch or whatever will be much more painful for smaller heroes than this once per game catapult shot. Back in the day we had a magic miscast table. You haven't played Warhammer till you've had you 500pts great unclean one miscast and cease to exist the first time he attempts to cast a spell. All the other instant kill abilities in AOS are limited to lower wound targets, can be stopped (eg unbound spells) and usually have very short ranges so can be avoided to an extent. The catapult is unique in that it can do this a 36" range. But personally, I'd be using it on an expensive elite infantry unit to break coherency and kill half the unit, rather than targeting characters. At the end of the day, as with most things in AOS. One catapult is meh.... spamming 4+ of them get's stupid.

Good point. Forgot about that. Thanks for your insight it's been very helpful. Regrowth on Drycha was my default choice too. Got the whole life spell lore too so there's a good heal in there too.

Thanks for the input. I was of course thinking of the standard winterleaf or drwadwood items on the arch rev and spiritsong staff on the brachwraith. Thus my points conundrum. But perhaps a durthu list is better if you're going to use those grove artifacts. I hadn't considered gnarlroot. Looks interesting. Reroll 1s isn't as good as winterleaf but it's better than dreadwood. I'd be a bit worried that I only have 2 hard hitting units (6 hunters and Drycha). I guess I'd have to take more endless spells for damage in this case? Probably mirrors too? If I drop the 3 hunters in the above list I can take a unit of tree revs and an arch rev. In that case any of the 3 groves work fine and it means I'll probably be summoning 3 hunters most of the time so it makes my painting and assembly easier (though I'd like the option of 20 dryads for an objective steal). Is throne of vines a must on alarielle? Seems like a waste to just keep her and the beetle as a backline caster. If I do go gnarlroot, I can drop outcasts and unit of spites for 1 unit of tree revs and then have 90pts spare for endless spells and/or extra CP. And I guess in this case, brachwraith gets the chalice and alarielle gets trone of vines. I really need to get some test games in. But thanks for the info. You've given me a lot to think about.

I would be very interested in seeing the rest of your swampy sylvaneth. That's what I'm aiming for now with my new army. Lots of dark swampy things

Hi Everyone. After some advice on this list Allegiance: OrderAlarielle the Everqueen (660)Branchwraith (80)Drycha Hamadreth (320)6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)- Scythes3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- Greatswords5 x Spite-Revenants (60)5 x Spite-Revenants (60)5 x Spite-Revenants (60)Outcasts (100)Spiteswarm Hive (50)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 91 It's pretty basic. Has all the staples, outcasts battalion, 6 and 3 hunters. couple of big heroes. My problem is this.... The battalion is kind of wasted because I only have 1 hero who can take an artifact, and they have to take the grove one first. Both winterleaf and dreadwood artifacts are not that great on a branchwraith whos just sitting summoning dryads. But.... if it try to squeeze in an Arch Rev, then I can't fit the battalion and then don't get the extra artifact anyway. I'm not sure how to go about optimizing this. I can probably drop Drycha for 1-2 heroes and some more troops. I don't really want to buy any more hunters (already have another 3 for Alarielle to summon potentially). is Alarielle OK with 2 small heroes, or is it better to take 2 big ones as insurance? I'd also like to be able to fit in 1 unit of Tree Revs for objective grabbing late game, again difficult with the battalion there, but one option is to simply swap the battalion for tree revs (and have 30 pts left over for an endless spell perhaps). Of course, once you drop the battalion, you can swap spite revs for tree revs too. I should mention that the upcoming tournament is played in Ghyran and all wizards will know the whole Ghyran spell lore. That's why I wanted to go a bit caster heavy (and would love to squeeze in an emerald lifeswarm too) but I dunno if that's overkill.

So obviously we're going to get some more aelf stuff in the near future. It might just be Kurnothi, or it might be the Light/Dark elves that keep getting mentioned. Out side of that I think GW has 4 options. 1) Keep Dropping new or semi-new armies like Bonereapers/Nighthaunt This seems the most obvious choice, the new elves could make up 2-3 of those kind of releases. 2) They can refresh existing old ranges. Skaven and Seraphon are in dire need of new models. A lot of the old empire stuff could be updated for AoS. 3) Expand on smaller armies. Plenty of factions have 2-3 units and a few heroes. It's perfectly reasonable that these factions could get an expansion that perhaps doubles their model range. Kind of how Gloomspite worked. Old army but got a significant new release. Quite a few armies are still missing endless spells and terrain, so that could fill some release windows without affecting exiting battletomes too much. 4) Start the cycle again and start releasing 3.0 battletomes (with various model updates just like we've seen to date). Or we could see AoS 3.0 rebuilt completely from the ground up with significant core rule changes.... and then you need to whole battletome cycle again. 1 and 3 seem the most likely. Number 2 can happen on just a miniature front but I'm super wary of anything that would introduce new units and new rules because then that would presumably require a new book.... and then we get into number 4 territory which I'd like to avoid. It's also kind of why I hate not having proper full digital rules. If they had battletomes or at least the rules/points portions of them digital only, then they could easily slot in a new unit or two into an existing army, or update under performing warscrolls without having to wait for a GHB or without leaving them all by themselves on the store page like the warcry and underworlds warbands (or in random white dwarf issues like the special slaanesh sub-faction).

I do both... I print out a bunch of stuff for a tournament but that's also because I have lots of extra things. I'll put the rules for artifacts, spells, battalions, real effects as well as scenario pages and any other reminders for may army. An app that just shows the army or individual warscrolls doesn't do that. I print all this out into a little plastic pocket book. I don't carry around the 3-4 rule books and battletomes necessary to play the game. That's super annoying. I also don't like paying for a battletome twice (physical and digital) so I don't have the battalions and realm items on my app. The app is great for building and a quick check of warscrolls. But it's missing too many things. Even if you do pay for the extra unlocks, I don't think you can easily view spells or items in the app. You could use something else like Battlescribe but then that's community driven so can have errors too. That being said, I generally prefer the digital options if they're done right. But that's mainly due to the ability to keep them updated and issue FAQ and balance updates in a quicker and easier manner. I don't think GW utilizes it's digital platforms as well as it could.

Did the seminar say when these are being released? People are saying xmas but is that confirmed? The battletome tome is on that December price list but the StD SC wasn't

Man you are one hell of a tease. I think I found the website you're talking about but wayback machine didn't save any of the forum pages. You wouldn't happen to have any more info on where someone could find these mythical photos?

I think I read somewhere that with the new season of Underworlds being Ghur focused (Beastgrave).... that AOS will also be Ghur focused for a while. Which implies more destruction stuff, and I guess, perhaps Kurnothi could fit in there too. After that I imagine we'll move to Hysh, which would bring the Light Elves, so potentially that might be end of next year with Underworlds Season 4? The Ghur focus might be short lived and just for Orruks and Mawtribes... but we could get something out of left field like Grot Skypirates. I guess there's potential for a brand new army like Bonereapers but I wouldn't expect a whole new range that soon. 1 new army per year sounds sustainable. What could you even do? Fimir? Is there anything else in AoS lore that would fit into Destruction? I'm not really following all the current lore much.

The other guy's point is that you could just remove casualties from outside 6" I agree it's decent... I initially missed that any death within 6 causes wounds to everything within 6.... Ideally you want to place it near a bunch of heroes. You get at least 4 phases worth of value out of it, so you could potentially cause 4 mortal wounds against each unit within 6" A double turn would give you 8 phases of value. And because it's soul linked, if it's not dispelled you can always keep it close to your intended targets. That being said, high bravery or battleshock immune armies are not likely to take any wounds in that phase. And OBR only have 3 shooting attacks in the whole army so setting up wounds in the shooting phase might be tricky. I'd say realistically you could expect this spell to cause 2 extra MW per turn, on as many units as you can cover in the bubble. 20pts is certainly great. But it's also useless against Death armies, so will depend on your local meta a little bit. So I don't think it's busted.... Nightmare Predator does decent damage too for only 40pts. Seems to be a better version of other similar D3 MW endless spells. And the Soul Linked aspect removed the big downside of endless spells.

Oh the Soulstealer Carriron. Well that one triggers as long as something dies nearby during any phase. So it's not per kill like the Harvester. The spell can be set up anywhere on the table though.... so you should be able to get perfect placement for it and the 6" bubble is a decent size. The sight thing means that you can use this spell to attack squishy casters hiding behind a building. I don't think it's a particularity amazing spell. Not sure why people are saying it's the best. Maybe good for Nagash to increase his sight? I dunno.

sorry I can't find "soul thief".... what rule is that?

Also don't forget that it's any model... not just opponent's models. If you remove your own mortek guard within 3" you have a 4+ chance to bring them straight back. I think the ability is much less about your opponent's models and more about making a mortek guard unit 50% harder to kill.

Yeah that's fair. But as a narrative player you simply don't need to be up to date right? Who cares if you're using the latest FAQ. Just agree whatever with your opponent. Ultimately we're talking and small point updates more than anything. Which are easily handled by the online app too.

Yeah, unfortunately that also conflicts with their quick hype releases, and being so expensive, people are likely to hold back on purchases if they know what's coming. That being said. GW did kind of do that for sisters of battle. Put out a beta codex like a year before the new model range. But that's probably a special case. I think a happy medium is just doing quicker and more frequent balance tweaks. Little changes is often what's needed... Not drastic rewrites.

Yes. It says "pick one enemy model" roll 2D6, add or subtract a modifier from the damage table and if that equals or beats the wounds characteristic, kill the model. so if the catapult is at full health, on average, you'll kill a 4 wound model outright. If it's taken 3 wounds, you'll kill a 6 wound model outright (on average). Hypothetically, if you had some big base units, let's say something on 50mm bases like Kurnoth hunters or Stormfiends on 60mm bases, then hitting the middle guy, and killing him will wipe the half the remainder of the unit due to breaking coherency, unless you always keep them in a triangle or have all the bases touching (since 2" is 50.8mm). You have to be really careful with a larger unit of 6 or 9 because you might lose 3 or 4 extra if the catapult can break coherency. There are a few other effects in AoS that can do the same. I can think of the Stardrake bite, Giant stuff them in the bag, Nagash's Hand of Dust, and Reikenor's corpse candles. But most of those are either a 50% chance, or require 1D6 to be the wounds characteristic, or only do 1 mortal wound. They're all also low range. I don't think any of those pose as much of a threat as a 36in 2d6 roll version. It's one use only, but as soon as you damage those catapults a bit, every squishy hero is in serious danger. There's no saves and no To Hit roll. Just the 2D6 roll and a flat out delete.

*** caveat, i'll be mentioning faction endless spells too because I think the same comments apply to both terrain and spells and they are often released together. I dislike faction terrain for a few main reasons. Firstly... the power levels vary wildly. Some are nearly useless, some are flat out mandatory. Secondly, because they are free (points wise) and often very useful... there's no reason not to take them.... which kind of makes them all mandatory. Some that are situational you could get away with not taking, but again, there's no reason not to. At the very least they can block opponent movement or something. Thirdly, some are stupidly expensive. Like Sylvaneth generally need 2-4 boxes of forests (Same with the nurgle tree), where as other factions only need 1 piece. Heardstone and nurgle tree are the cheapest ($49AUD). Most others are $60AUD, shipwreck is $70AUD and the three most expensive are the sylvaneth woods, the bone tithe nexus at $84AUD and the Loonshrine at $98AUD. So the more expensive ones are 40-50% more expensive than the cheaper ones. And again, sylvaneth need multiples (can you tell I'm a bit annoyed?). Fourthly, not everyone has them. Not everyone even has faction endless spells. The fact they got brought in after 2.0 battletomes started coming out is a bit weird, but the fact that some newer factions didn't get them at all is even more bizarre. Some factions have endless spells but no terrain, some have terrain but no endless spells. If only a few factions had some reason to have terrain... where it makes sense, Like sylvaneth then (cost aside) it wouldn't be so bad. Or the deepkin shipwreck. But there's been some strange omissions, and some factions that really didn't need them ended up with some. Eg... khorne and fyreslayers endless spells (and terrain).

Yeah seems good. Especially if you can boost the range and hit something early. Arkhan and Nagash should have no issues casting it. Extra annoying for units that do damage in multiple phases like fighter/wizards, or heroes with shooting and melee attack (like most big monster heroes). Something like Drycha just cries..... wizard with a good ranged and melee attack.

Sisters of the Watch are solid because of the 2 attacks thing. Shadow warriors are great too. Deploy anywhere and while in cover they have a 2+/3+/-1/1 attack And will be in range, where as the sister's 18" range might not do much first turn. hard to say what's "best" because points and situation matter a lot.

I wish it was more like 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 ... 1 in 4 i so restrictive.... like most armies seem to have about 8-11 units so you're really only ever going to get 2 Sylvaneth units in a Living City army tops. which is likely to just be 2 units of hunters or 1 hunter and 1 hero. Just seems a bit boring. I was kind of looking forward to having a nice 50/50 mix perhaps. Maybe that's just too strong or too difficult to balance though.

That's the age old problem of playtesting. How many games can you really effectively pull off with a somewhat limited pool of players. Some of the stats bouncing around the forum right now are collated from 7000+ games (over just a few months). if each game is 2.5 hours, that's 17500 hours... or 730 days or about 2 year of man hours. There's no way an internal testing team or even 20-30 community members can come anywhere close to that. Of course with testing, you're mainly looking at broken combos or stuff that's too strong, but you still have to try and play different scenarios and against different opponents to get a good picture. video games have it easy because they can collect heaps of stats from millions of players every minute of the day. Then make adjustments base on that. Tabletop games don't have anywhere near that much data. At best we get a win/loss ratio. We don't really know much about which scenarios are better or worse for which lists, or what special rules certain player packs introduce etc... in a low round game like AoS (5-6 rounds at the largest events), it's quite possible for some armies to dodge bad match ups as well. In theory we have enough data that things like that should even out, but there's also local meta variation to consider.... maybe no one locally is playing an army that counters the top guys well, which futher skews results. GW might say "oh this is fine because nighthaunt and sylvaneth counter army X" (for example) except those armies have low popularity rates for various reasons, and thus don't work as the counter they're intended to be.

Yeah the catapults seems strong. 3 attacks, 2+ to hit, 3+ to wound, 5 damage.... that's causing an average of 8.333 damage each shot. with buffs it's even more up to almost 13 damage. That's just from one catapult. so even a 4+ save character that's big enough to not get look out sir.... 2 of these things are going to worry it.... A LOT. And unlike warp lightning cannons or whatever they're going to be far more reliable. That's the damage on average. 2+ to hit and 3+ to wound is pretty consistent even without rerolls and other buffs. In reality you're probably hitting all 3 shots wounding twice, if one get's saved that's still a dead 5 wound hero, or 1/2 to 1/3 of a bigger hero. It's not completely busted but if you're an army that doesn't have some sort of answer to 36" artillery,... it's going to hurt you. As for Mortek guard... they aren't so much about killing things... but dislodging a large unit from an objective is going to be a nightmare. high save, decent attack, and if you park a harvester next to them, you get 50% of them back when they die. Which means you have to do everything you can to kill the harvester. So a unit of 20 that bubble wrap a harvester is going to be tough for armies without some decent ranged attacks. I agree the tanky/castle/turtle armies are boring, but unfortunately, competitively, they are very strong. Fyreslayers are the current kings of that game style right? I think they're about to be dethroned. Skaven can do it as well a bit with large tarpits that can be made battleshock immune.

Cool, might check it out. That one was a bad example because it was actually on tabletop.TO. I was just looking at some of the traditionally weaker armies and that one popped up as an outlier. I didn't check the source properly lol. Maybe I should have used the Ironjaws example from Fantastica Fanatic lol. That being said... even a lot of the bigger Tabletop.TO events either don't have lists or don't have round results entered. Not sure why someone would bother using the platform and then not use it for round draws or enter in the data though.... Does anyone have a direct link to this spreadsheet? or is it an internal AoSShorts thing?

From @Major in the bonereapers forum $AUD prices for next week's releases. The unit costs seem to be in line with what we normally get. Glad the paint pot holder is $13 for 6 and not $48 like the other spreadsheet had. The red painting handle isn't here.... The spray stick is $38... so the $18USD was probably accurate. Bit high, but I'll reserve judgement till I see it.