Nevar

I also added a white dry brush starting near the bottom wisps of the models and moving up. The tips of the wisps are nearly completely white from the dry brushing, and I also added a bit more at the top of the models to highlight specific details and the like. Here is an example of a model in progress that has no white dry brushing yet. While the oxide does a good job, you don't get the full definition of forms you get with the added step of dry brushing. The white drybrush can also be done sloppily near their hands or other places their ghostly bodies come into contact with 'physical' objects like their weapons and the like, and it gives a semi-object source lighting effect that helps make them feel ghosty. My friend says they look like undead marshmallows with swords.

Hammond Ladrian - Master of the Einhundert Before the fall of Nacht'Tor, Kolonal Ladrian was the commander of the Einhundert mercenary company. While the Einhundert and Ladrian himself worked for the highest bidder across the Realms, he was a personal friend and former companion to Duke Holsstok in his earlier more adventurous days. Like Janis Mistwalker, Hammond Ladrian's loyalty to the Duke came from years of travelling and fighting side by side with the Arch Mage seeking wealth and glory in their youth. When Duke Holsstok contacted his friend to hire The Einhundert, more than the promise of pay brought the loyal Einhundert through the gate into Nacht'Tor. Janis Mistwalker - Realm Gate Warden Janis Mistwalker has been a traveling companion of Duke Holsstok since they traveled the Realms together with Hammond Ladrian. Where Hammond was a peerless tactician and swordmaster, and the Duke was an arcane prodigy, Janis was a bit less specialized. While he drew on some arcane might of his own and learned what he could from Aldrik, he also sparred and learned the sword with Hammond. While Ladrian went off to form his own mercenary company, and Aldrik settled into a role as Lord and husband in Fendale, Janis continued to probe the Realms and investigate the waygates between them. It was Janis Mistwalker that convinced Aldrik Holsstok to form an expedition into the Harrowmark. As a Gate Warden he was extremely familiar with many of the Ways into and out of the Harrowmark, and he was instrumental in carving out the Harrowways between the villages in the Holsstok domain. Arnold Holsstok - Marquees of Nacht'Tor The son of Aldrik Holsstok, Duke of the Holsstok Duchy in the Harrowmark, is Arnold Holsstok. As the heir to both his father's titles and his arcane talent, Arnold was trained in arms by his father's swordmaster Hammond Ladrian, in arcane rites and the winds of magic by both his father and Janis Mistwalker, and horsemanship by the House retainer Talmanis. During his coming of age years he rode with the Knight-Host of Nacht'Tor directly under Ser Talmanis to respond to threats to the outlying villages of the Duchy as the mounted force was the primary security that the fortress could provide to settlements ranging far and wide from it's walls. Thanks to the Harrowway network of warded roads created by Janis, Arnold and the Knight-Host would have nearly a decade of success before the fall. Lady Valet Shareez - Betrothed of Arnold Holsstok The Lady Valet Shareez was the first daughter of House Shareez back in the city of Fendale. While the Holsstoks bore the twin tailed comet of Sigmar upon their crests for generations, the House Shareez had kept the faith in Alarielle The Everqueen. The marriage of the Marquees and joining of the two houses was thought to help unify some of the faction back in Fendale, as well as garner further support for the Holsstok expedition into Shyish from House Shareez and other faithful of the Everqueen. While the Holsstoks could bring Sigmar's Order to the fringes of the Harrowmark, only the touch of the Everqueen could hope to turn the struggling farms and settlements into truly thriving colonies. Unfortunately Lady Valet, her armsmen, and a cadre of her priestesses were in the Keep during the fall. Now the twisting vines and brambles in and around Keep Nacht'Tor writhe with malignant anger, and the shrieks of cursed banshees are not unknown among the haunted halls. Fedrin Kane - Watchmaster of Nacht'Tor As a former member of the Einhundert, Fedrin had retired into the Holsstok House Guard long before the Duke decided to launch his doomed expedition into Shyish. As a swordmaster of the legendary band, he had quickly rose in ranks among Duke Holsstok's armsmen and gained the position of Watchmaster. When the expedition was planned, Fedrin Kane was the foremost voice of warning about such an ambitious venture. It was also Fedrin's cautious voice that had Aldrik refrain from moving the House nobles into the keep until its construction had been complete. While the glories and fall of the keep is what is mainly recorded and whispered about, the construction of the keep though hastened by arcane means was a harrowing struggle of its own. Armsmen and mercenaries like Fedrin were the first ones through the realm gate and were charged with months of encampment at the site to defend the builders of the keep as they worked. The loyal Fedrin Kane was the first to raise the alarm on the night of the fall, though was quickly killed by a traitor in the keep. Now his shade is the most often seen specter by any who pass through the keep, with watch lantern leading the way, and his sound of alarms driving the spirits of the keep into maddening fury. Keegan - Quartermaster of the House Guard Unlike many of the important persons among the Duke's retinue, the man known only as Keegan was a man of humble beginnings in the slums of Fendale. Seeking a better life he enlists in the household guard of the first noble family that would have him. Fate would see that this House was that of the Holsstoks. He served a distinguished yet quiet and dutiful career in the House Guard for two decades before being chosen from the ranks for his honesty and skill with numbers. The Duke named him Quartermaster and attempted to give him a minor title, but the man known as Keegan humbly refused the title and took the position out of duty. Keegan it was said, thought honest pay and the love of his wife Bethany were all that was needed in the realms. He was last seen holding the passage to the Sanctuary of Alarielle where the women and children of the keep had been sent. Sayzen Veloran - Chief Librarian The mage known as Sayzen was first recruited by Aldrik a decade before the expedition to Shyish. Through their travels and adventures, Ladrian, Aldrik, and Janus had come by many artifacts, scrolls, books, and items of power across the realms. With the duties of being a Lord and seeing to his family, Aldrik no longer was confident in his ability to keep these items safe, nor did he have the time to devote to studying them and unlocking their secrets. The kindly scholar and mage known to all as Sayzen was a friend of Janis and fit in quickly with the House hold. He would even go on to be one of the Duke's most trusted advisors. His position also helped the scholarly mage learn much from the seasoned members of the household like Ladrian and Aldrik making him a compitent swordsman and powerful mage. Even so, if one wanted to find the man named Sayzen, the vaults and libraries of the keep were the best bet. Swordmasters of the Einhundert Not actually originally formed by Hammond Ladrian, the Einhundert was a Free Guild greatsword company working for coin in Ghyran. The seasoned company had fought campaigns against everything from beastmen to sylvaneth and everything in between. While not yet famous in anyway, they had an honest and reliable reputation that ensured that they were nearly always employed. When Hammond joined them, their rise and fame would enrich their company, and eventually doom them. In the decade Aldrik was building up his House, Hammond Ladrian was rising through the ranks and leading his mercenary company from a respected and reliable company of swordsmen, to becoming the single most famous company of swordmasters in the leagues surrounding the budding city of Fendale. While their fame was muted by distance as they traveled the Realms, the Einhundert would see action across half a dozen of the Mortal Realms. The loyalty of company was squarely behind the accomplished adventurer Ladrian when the call came from Aldrik seeking to hire their services. The friendship of Ladrian to Aldrik, and the loyalty of the men of the Einhundert to Ladrian, would see the famed company hired for much lower than what they might have demanded from other patrons. It would be the Einhundert that added backbone to the garrison of Nacht'Tor and made the setup of Aldrik's duchy in Shyish possible. Even the stalwart nature of this famed company however, could not stand before the ire of Nagash in his own realm. Knight-Host of House Holsstok Unlike the hired mercenaries and lowborn armsmen of the House, the men of the Knight-Host were to a man, third and fourth sons of various noble houses of Fendale. While they would find no lands or titles, a life in the Knight-Host gave these forgotten noble sons meaning and purpose and solidified their loyalty to House Holsstok beyond that of coin to a mercenary. This loyalty did not stop internal competition and rivalries among the lordlings, but this spirit of competition also helped garner an edge of skill in the Knights of House Holsstok. While the Knight-Host numbered only a couple hundred Knights plus that again in squires and supporting armsmen, they were numerous and well equipped enough to serve as the fast response force of the House when it moved into the Harrowmark. With Janis Mistwalker and the mage circle of the House spending nearly two years carving out warded roadways called the Harrowways between villages, the reach of the Knight-Host ever expanded. At the height of the Duchy's expansion, the Knight-Host could ride to the defense of even the farthest flung village of the holdings in two days or less depending on how hard they pushed their steeds. The combination of the Harrowways and the skills of the Knight-Host would see to the safety of travel among the haunted woods of the Harrowmark's fringe and allow the Duke's domain to flourish in what was everywhere else, the choking malignant forest of the Harrowmark. House Shareez Armsmen The souls of Lady Valet Shareez's personal Armsmen sent to ensure her safety in the keep of Nacht'Tor, lead by her Warden Kevin Kale. Armsmen of House Holsstok Lowborn soldiers of the House, one unit modeled with shields so I can tell them apart if they blob up. Endless Spells I prefer endless spells that cannot backfire on me. Shackles are good for board control, Cogs normally can't be stolen from me, and the Pendulum goes on off in one direction and won't come back. Gravesites Thanks to the Legion of Grief, I can properly use my gravesite markers now. I had been using them as Nighthaunt objectives for a bit, but most missions have specific objectives. =================================================================================================================== I only have five more units unpainted in my collection. Once they are complete I just need to expand the Einhundert with more Bladegeists, total of 40, and but some direwolves as battleline to let me play 2k points. Still on the painting desk is the Knight Captain Telmanis, the Traitor of the South Gate, Duke Aldrik himself, the Holsstok Huntsmen, and Aldrik's Circle of Mages. For those who care about actual AoS rules and such, the characters above are models representing these units. Ladrian - Kurdoss Janis - Dreadblade Harrow: normally with an artifact or command ability to make him a wizard Arnold - Reikenor Valet - Briar Queen Fedrin - Spirit Torment Keegan - Knight of Shrouds (foot) Sayzen - Guardian of Souls Telmanis - Will be a mounted Knight of Shrouds Edis the Coward - Necromancer (traitor of the north gate) Duke Aldrik - Lady Olynder Duke Aldrik on Circle of Mages - Nagash

So maybe this has been covered already... but can LoG not take the Aetherquartz Brooch and Vassal of the Craven King for two rolls of a 5+ to refund out CPs? Add in Kurdoss and that is three different 5+ rolls to acquire more CPs per turn. Is there a rule of one somewhere to keep this from happening?

Justice for Garkhorr... The main problem I have with the Legion of Grief, is that 'Deathly Invocation' which is a massive part of the normal LoN is mostly missing. It is a primary source of recursion in LoN from Necromancers and Vampire Lords. In LoG we can now bring in Necromancers but lost out on Vamps. I really wish they would move Deathly Invocation into an allegiance ability for all of your heroes instead of installing them into the unit profiles. That said... you are going to want a Necromancer badly for Danse Macabre, as most factions have some way to fight twice. Nighthaunt had Wave of Terror, LoN have Danse Macabre. If you don't have a necro you can't do it. That irks me a bit because he is slow and outside of my Nighthaunt theme, but if you are open to Skelebobs I can't see a Necromancer being an issue for you. You could even make him a general and have him hang out in a blob of 40 Chainrasps. The 4+ wound transfer plus his Deathly Invocation would make him a pretty survivable general, and chainrasps are as slow as he is so he won't get left behind. Mine gets left behind too much because my Bladegeists go scooting off faster than he can run.

Give me 'battleline' for Glaives and they are fixed in my opinion... otherwise they need a huge points reduction or entire reworks. I think general point cost reductions can solve all of our issues, things like Kurdoss at 220 is only meh when his stats are how they are. If his cost was reduced to 180 or so, then he would be a lot more attractive. Reikenor is arguably better overall and he is cheaper than Kurdoss. Immune to rend is less valuable than high saves in my opinion, and other factions being able to beef up their saves through terrain, spells, abilities, etc. is better than ethereal in my opinion as a lot of things that murder my ghosts have zero rend already. Looking at your Daughters of Khaine. But again, point cost reductions solves everything. As to the 'role' of Bladegiests and Grimghasts... I think they are well enough seperated from each other. Grims are made for grinding the melee, Blades are mobile hit and run specialists. Really only the Harridans needed something, and LoG is their home I think.

Speaking of updated app... I suddenly see a Necromancer on Nightmare in the list of leaders... but it is clearly outdated with it's abilities and spells referencing skeletons and zombies specifically instead of 'Summonable' and it does not have the Deathly Invocation ability. Is that just a legacy unit, or is there any reason to hope it gets updated? A speedier Necromancer would be a lot of help in keeping up with all my speedy spooks.

They can also really easily just reprint the NH spell lore into the LoG. Honestly I would prefer that. I -really- love everything about NH as they are except for their allegiance abilities. Wave of Terror is cool, but not as good or as skill based as grave sites and summoning of dead units like the other Legions have. NH spell list is more than awesome enough, similarly all of our Artifacts are more than good enough for me. I am hoping for just a legion like the others that is led by Olynder and adds the grave sites and Deathly Invocation abilities to all NH characters played inside LoG. As it is, NH inside LoN is not quite what I would want, because I am not interested in Necromancers or Vampires, but I really enjoy the attrition game of the Legions, and would love to use pure NH with the LoN alleigence abilities.

I am praying for our Nighthaunt heroes gaining the 1d3 model revive ability that the rest of the LoN heroes get in the Legion of Grief so I can play LoN and grave sites as effectively with spooks as I would with skelebobs.

If this is true I am the biggest cheater on the planet. I don't see where or why you cannot re-roll successful charges. That said, it has never gotten me a WoT, but I have tried it several times unaware this was against the rules if it is...

Well it would not be, if we could reliably get one or two Waves of Terror per charge phase. If we traded the ability to revive our units for the 'glass cannon' or offensive trade off of getting multiple pile ins... then Legions would play as a slow grind where units are coming back, and Nighthaunt would be a literal 'Wave of Terror' that either strikes hard an decisively or else misses and has to fight uphill. For instance, what if Wave of Terror was a 7+ charge on turn 1, then 10+ on turn 2, and then 12+ only for the rest of the game? That would make CP re-rolls to fish for WoT on turn one extremely good and would make us want to have as many spare CPs as we could at the beginning of the game. It would also make Nighthaunt -need- to deploy with very good skill to get the most out of their early game strength, with their high mobility letting them try and stay ahead of the game as their power dwindles away. I am not saying that idea is balanced or I would want that system... my point is in that instance there is a -game plan- I can go into a game working around when it comes to our gimmick. It also separates us further from Legions, and if Grims had much easier means to get WoT in our allegiance... then they wouldn't completely overshadow us. Even the Deepkin tides or the Maggotkin cycle is something you can plan around. Nighthaunt just have nothing we can build our army or our battle plans around.

Oh no, just to be clear I think Mobility is King. If you go find the discussions comparing Bladegeists to Grimghasts I am firmly in the camp that Bladegesists are the clear winner because of their ability to retreat and charge because that mobility is even better than the 2" reach or re-rolls of the Grims in my opinion. I only point out this stuff, because the topic is about power creep, and while I think Nighthaunt is awesome, I think we are a solid A tier army due to the inherent mobility we have with universal flight, and a lot of our units moving 8"+ standard. Having -only- that keeps us out of the S tier. The thing is, there are a lot of armies that can match our speed, but then -also- have very reliable gimmicks that they can use to secure victories that we instead have to 'hope' for. Legions of Nagash is one of those examples because they literally just have our Nighthaunt units dropped into what I consider a 'superior' gimmick system. They have better recursion that can be very tactically used. They can resummon entirely dead units from pre-positioned locations (which you can plan specifically for). They can get very reliable double pile-ins with Danse Macabre. They can get +2 or +3 to cast reliably on even a lowly Necromancer to influence the 'randomness' inherent in dice. Basically, I think if you had two clones of the exact same player facing off, exactly the same terrain layouts, all things being equal... the Legions of Nagash player can effectively out 'think' his Nighthaunt opponent with all of his tactical features like Grave Sites and resummoning and recursion castling. The Nighthaunt side could win... but for the most part would be reliant on finding a good 10+ charge somewhere as opposed to because he was shrewd with his faction assets. That said, Nighthaunt have the single most reliable strength in the game which is our mobility and the ethereal save. At the end of the day though, the rubber does hit the road and Witch Aelves with 4 attacks each make their charge into your expensive Bladegeists... and no amount of mobility will or 4++ saves will save you from that. Or 12 MWs from an overcharged power 1 Warp Lightning Cannon.

I agree that Nighthaunt is pretty awesome, but in my opinion Nighthaunt is a 'gamblers' army. What I mean by that, is the majority of our 'features' are extremely randomized and powerful if they work in your favor. For instance, Wave of Terror is extremely good, like battle defining when it happens on a good unit like Grims or Blades. But it is also basically useless on a unit of 10 Chainrasps. On top of that, you have no ability to control when it triggers. Legions of Nagash and FEC both have 'pile in and fight twice' mechanics that they can for the most part, use when they need it. LoN has Danse Macabre, and while rolling for a spell is 'random' and the enemy can dispel it, there is also ways to improve your chances and even counter play with other spells to get you opponent to run out of dispels. FEC spends command points for theirs, but as a general you -can- plan for and control when you get your double pile in. With Nighthaunt, we can use CP to reroll the charge dice and that is the only influence we have on the mechanic. All of our bravery targeting MW spells and abilities rely on rolling over the enemy Bravery which is extremely unreliable, and even when you succeed the damage output can be lack luster. So building an army around Bravery is a gamble, as your unreliable mechanics can be made useless or made extremely OP based on opponents. Our primary 'identity' is really just our flying/fast/ethereal universal base stats. The Nighthaunt can get where they need when they need via deep-strike, repositioning teleports, and natural speed unhindered by models or terrain. In a game based on objectives this is extremely good and our units basically all have solid stat lines. The problem with 'making it work for you.' in our faction is that we really have no way to make any of our 'gimmicks' work when we want them to. Legions of Nagash on the flip side, is more a planned event. Everything from which Grand Host you use, to where you place your grave sites, are pieces of your game that you are completely under your control and that you can properly plan in advance. You can be more of a 'thinking' general when it comes to tackling each battle. I don't say that as any kind of negative criticism against Nighthaunt or our players... but other than normal 'any army' tactics of board control and objective capture, you really do not need to work too hard with our spooks. By work hard I mean... your 'Wave of Terror' will happen or it won't. It is icing on you cake not the cake itself. Same with the Bravery stuff. Our cake is simple mobility, which is great, but other factions can match us, AND have abilities which they can control. Oddly for an army of spooks, Nighthaunt feel very one dimensional and straight forward to me. Keep X guys in the underworld for outflanks and objective drops, send your main 'blocks' against their main blocks, and then just kinda hope you get a 10+ on an important charge somewhere. If you don't... teleport your guys out of combat and have them charge again... and hope for Wave of Terror. I know we have cool buff auras and stuff... but so does nearly everyone else, and when it comes to competitive play, reliability you can plan around is extremely important. I play Skaven also, so I like these OP/Useless things, but at least a Warp Lightning Cannon functions in such a way that I can count on a few Mortal Wounds into an otherwise safe enemy character before it explodes. I have played games where I got Wave of Terror zero times in 5 battle rounds, and I have had games where I got one or two in each of my charge phases. Often times getting the 10+ charge on a small chaff unit that was 3" away already, while my main block of Blades fails their charge even after a CP reroll. I dunno, I just feel like our inability to do anything to improve our Wave of Terror is sadness. At least give us a Command Ability that lets us garuntee at least one good Wave of Terror per game. I would take a 1 use Wave of Terror over our current system any day... at least then I can use my wits and skill to make sure my decisive hammer blow lands when and where I need it, instead of just shrugging and ignoring half of the pieces that make our faction unique in my battle plans.

@KoalaSnok @XReN Blisterskin Grand Court Abhorrant Archregent: Hellish Orator, Eye of Hysh Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgeist: Gruesome Bite Crypt Infernal Courtier: The Flayed Pennant x10 Ghouls x6 Crypt Flayers x6 Crypt Flayers x6 Crypt Flayers Deadwatch Battalion 1950 Points +2CP From what I understand, if you have a zombie dragon/terrorgeist rider you get to choose a mount trait, and it seems like an auto include to reroll bite attacks with Gruesome Bite. Likewise, this list can summon in two more units of Crypt Flayers to make use of the Blisterskin command trait even if the other units are getting thrashed or are committed to an objective. Regent can also summon x20 ghouls for bodies if needed instead. With Frenzy and the Deathwatch, it seems to me I could get six pile-ins and combats out of the three crypt flayer units. Three natural ones, and three Frenzy ones. With an additional pile-in from the battalion on the next hero phase. With Orator potentially increasing CP gain to x2 per turn... you could get six more pile-ins on the 2nd turn via two frenzies and the battalion pile-in. That is an amazingly good alpha strike and follow up if things go well. Add in a terrorgeist to either distraction carnifex or actually just go on a rampage with him as well... I can see how this is much improved on my earlier lists.

Well I didn't, and I was going to ask you where it says that... then found it in the points section which I never even looked at because I use Azyr for points. DERP

Allying in Direwolves does not fill my battleline requirements unless I miss my mark? Varghulfs can heal any unit, and seeing as I was relying on the Archregents summoning units I need for the battle, Varghulfs allow us to summon anything and have the correct Courtier to run along side them. If I take the flayer courtier, I have to summon more Flayers or else the courtier becomes useless to the new summons. Plus, Varghulfs are worth the additional points in their personal stats alone no? Pallisade completely blocks all LOS. FEC fence just gives cover if you cluster around it, and 25% of all enemy armies are unaffected by its slow. I would argue the FEC fence is mostly useless. To be fair I was building with local meta in mind. He will be fighting my Skaven, and that skaven force has x4 Lightning Cannons. Cover won't save the Archregents, but completely blocking line of sight protects the throne sitting summoning masters until they have had time to bring in their units, assuming they didn't just quickly spam them immediately. Honestly though, it was a 30pt spell and I had to choose between FEC Fence and Pallisade, and I completely disagree with you on the effectiveness of either. I had thought with the throne, I could assume I was summoning for free, leaving me the +1 CP per turn for other uses, plus in most cases I would also have the Orator ability giving me an additional one on a 4+. That said, I went back over the lists and considered battalions for more CPs and potential artifacts. How about this list? Blisterskin Grand Court Abhorrant Archregent: Hellish Orator, Eye of Hysh Abhorrant Archregent Crypt Infernal Courtier: The Flayed Pennant x10 Ghouls x10 Ghouls x10 Ghouls x6 Crypt Flayers x6 Crypt Flayers x6 Crypt Flayers Deadwatch Battalion 1950 Points +2CP Seems like this list would have stupidly good mobility with the ability to redeploy Flayers using the Blisterskin command ability, and a unit of flayers able to pile in and attack in the hero phase in addition to using Feeding Frenzy. This list -could- theoretically have all three Flayer units fight twice in the first turn, and potentially have a 4 pile in and fight from the battalion. This list could also potentially have 4 CP on turn 1 depending on that 4+. I imagine one of the Archregents would want to move forward and the Orator would want to camp on his throne to preserve the 4+ CP gain.

I can't think of anything else to spend my Command Points on.

Hey guys, I play nighthaunt, but I am helping a friend build his FEC lists and he lent me his battle tome to have me help him understand the army and what he should build toward. Since he might have different play style preferences than I, I came up with 3 different lists and I would like more experienced feedback on them. LIST #1 Gristlegore Grand Court Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgeist x2 Abhorrant Archregents Varghulf Courtier x3 Royal Terrorgeists Battalion: Royal Menagerie Endless Spell: Malevolent Maelstrom 2000 pts. LIST #2 Blisterskin Grand Court x3 Abhorrant Archregents x2 Varghulf Courtier x10 Crypt Ghouls x10 Crypt Ghouls x10 Crypt Ghouls x6 Crypt Flayers x6 Crypt Flayers Endless Spell: Chalice of Ushoran, Corpsemare Stampede 2000 pts. LIST #3 Blisterskin Grand Court Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgeist x2 Abhorrant Archregents x2 Varghulf Courtier x10 Crypt Ghouls x10 Crypt Ghouls x10 Crypt Ghouls x6 Crypt Flayers x3 Crypt Flayers Endless Spell: Chalice of Ushoran, Prismatic Palisade 2000 pts. Two themes here... Archregents seem overpowered. They can summon a unit of their choice basically once per battle, and free if they are on the throne. Better yet unless I am mistaken those units must come in from a board edge... not your board edge... Amazing. Summoning is great, summoning what you need when you need it, nearly where you need it is so good I feel like I must be missing something. Second, Varghulfs seem extremely good as well, especially when paired with an Archregent. The Varghulf is the only courtier that can heal any of the various FEC units, and if the Archregents are going to summon something dependent the battle, having courtiers that can adapt to whichever unit they must work with seems good. Plus they are also no slouches in melee either. I also stuck in Crypt Flayers when i could because he likes those models and because I value flight over some of the smashiness Crypt Horrors. I was worried that maybe these lists were low on bodies, but the Archregent can spawn x20 Ghoul units if they are needed, and allow them to come in from various board edges for mobility. Mobility is also why I figured Blisterskin was the best grand court when not playing all terrorgeists for the added speed. I know I didn't specify artifact of power in the first list, I figure there are more than one option there. Also... last question... Gristlegore says you get 2 hits instead of 1 when you roll a natural 6... does that mean the Terrorgeist does 12 Mortal Wounds with his bite on a natural 6?!

Hey rat-things, I ruminated on the feedback I received before on my Skaventide list as I began the construction of my warp lightning cannons. I thought maybe relying too much on the Warfire Throwers could put me into deep water if my opponents had any shooting at all. As my DoK opponent is currently painting some harpies who can deep-strike and throw javalins, there is the possibility of the warpfire throwers being sniped out of my clanrats at just the right time to protect the following witches from our glorious cleansing flames. So I dropped Thanqoul (for now) and expanded my 60 Clanrats to 100, and shuffled points into a Doomwheel as well. I figure a Doomwheel can be a distraction carnifex or even tie up a flank for very low points cost. If the Doomwheel gets charged by 30 Witches... then the witches 'waste' a lot of damage on overkilling the doomwheel. If other smaller units like 10 Sisters of Slaughter charge it, then it is likely to survive and overload it's warp lightning and retaliate before burning out in a blaze of glory. What do you guys think? Is lacking a Master Clan caster too much of an issue? Having x4 warlocks means I can overcharge all four cannons now also. Taking only x2 Bombardier means I can still get both of them rerolling their shots to protect them from exploding and make them more likely to hit. Likewise, once the battle closes, I am regularly dealing 4x3 Mortal Wounds a hero phase from Warp Lightning spells (assuming successful castings), plus the MWs output from the Lightning Cannons. It seems like all I need to do is buy time with furry clanrat bodies and suicidal doomwheels. While I also understand this is an objectives game, I assume a unit jumping through a gnawhole can allow me to grab at backfield objectives or at least threaten such moves to help control the battlefield other than just making a castle of warp lightning madness. SKAVENTIDE Arch-Warlock Warlock Engineer: Warp Resonator Warlock Bombardier Warlock Bombardier x40 Clanrats x40 Clanrats x20 Clanrats x4 Warp Lightning Cannons x1 Doomwheel x2 Warpfire Throwers

Meddlers of Morathi Northwest of the shattered keep of Nacht'Tor, lies vast deserts that seem to stretch on forever. Unknown clattering legions of deathrattle kings march eternally to war with each other and outside forces alike. This blasted waste is home to many small realm gates much like the Harrowmark to the fallen keep's south east. From one of them marched a contingent of the murder god's children. The orating priests roll a massive relic topped with a macabre idol of their god. Why these meddlers enter the domain of the Black Duke is unknown to the fleeting awareness of the spectral garrison, but regardless an enemy army marches toward their ward. A contingent of flickering Einhundert drift from the gates of the dark keep to face the unknown aelves. Leading the spectral column is the tattered banner of the long gone Holsstok's, and below it the dark continanance of the former captain Shargul Raulth, underlit by the eerie green lantern of the company's battle wizard Tyr Vaanse. Though only a quarter of the Einhundert are sent to the waste to deal with the aelves, several handfuls of spectral men-at-arms of the House are drawn up in their wake. The garrison of Nacht'Tor will not let this trespass go without answer. BATTLE REPORT Ulgu Coven of Witches Slaughter Queen on Cauldron + Iron Crown Haq Queen on Foot Bloodwrack Medusa x20 Witch Aelves x10 Sisters of Slaughter First File of Blades of the Einhundert Kurdoss Valentian (Captain Shargul) Guardian of Souls (Company Wizard Tyr Vaanse) + Wychlight Lantern x20 Bladegeist Revenants x10 Chainrasps x10 Chainrasps Mission: Open War Cards, 3 Objectives, one in middle, one in each deployment zones. If anyone ever holds all three they win immediately, otherwise most held at the end of Battle Round 5 wins. All directions will be from the point of view of the Einhundert for the battle report. We also seem to have both forgotten our command traits entirely. The Einhundert swept into the pass as the witch coven began their attempt to make the crossing. Drawing his long blade, the dark captain thrust it forward with a silent command. Not even the whipping banner made a sound as the First File of Blade surged past him to close the gap. As the witches heads came up to register the sweeping charge of spectral blade masters, the shadows on the right flank swirl and from gathering mist also charge in the ghostly men-at-arms of the lost house of Holsstok. Several of the aelven women were cut down in the suddenness of the charge, never even drawing their blades. The others shout praises to Khaine draw their blades to meet the onrushing charge of blade masters. The dark steel blades of the Einhundert sent aelf weapons flying from hands as they cut down the witches by the handfuls in the initial rush. Still, the fervor of the witches empowered their own strikes, shattering spectral forms leaving nothing where they had been. Raising a chalice of the slain, an aelf priest rallied her sisters to hold the line. Daughters of Khaine lost twelve of their number in the initial charge. The Chainrasps arriving from the underworld made a Wave of Terror and managed to put a single wound on the Cauldron, and cut down three Sisters of Slaughter. Their second fight killed only another. The blender blades of Sisters and Witches struck extremely well and knocked out a lot of ghosts. Another note, the Captain (Kurdoss) managed to steal the DoK command point on the first turn, keeping the Cauldron from using it's command ability to kill the Chainrasps in the hero phase to get free. Instead, Sisters of Slaughter and Cauldron remain engaged by a handful of Chainrasps. Bahaha All of the witches were slain, eleven Bladegeists survive the counter attack of the witches and the melee attentions of the Haq Queen. I also lost four more bladegeists to battleshock leaving seven standing. Only three Chainrasps survived the cauldron striking them, and the last dreadwarden stood his ground until he was eventually pulled down by the Sisters of Slaughter. The game was decided on battle round three. Wrath of the Gods caused a MW to the last Bladegeist banishing the last rank and file of the Einhundert. The Cauldron would charge Captain Shargul's command causing only 1 wound. The captain piled on the damage, doing 8 damage to the Cauldron all told. Company mage Tyr, who is also a blademaster of the Einhundert was able to bring down another two of the most skilled Sisters of Slaughter and pull one of the Cauldron's riders from her relic before being shattered by the animated idol of Khaine. As Captain Shargul and his command began to move up the steps of the relic shrine, eyes intent on the high priestess... the sweeping fire wreathed blade of the avatar of Khaine cut all three of the command in half with one strike. Victory Daughters of Khaine. Lessons Learned Letting my bladegeists outrun my Guardian of Souls means I didn't even benefit from the lantern buff to wounding. I forgot to even have a command trait. Guardian of Souls with +2 to cast (Wychlight Lantern + Open War Twist) succeeded in casting zero spells. No returned models, no healing the Captain (Kurdoss) Stealing CP is amazing and seriously threw the DoK into disarray early in the game. Bladegeists never fail to perform. They wiped out x20 Witch Aelves and the Bloodwrack Medusa without any support. Had the Guardian been able to revive them, and if i had used Ruler of the Spirit Hosts... they could have still been swinging and finishing the game in the favor of the Nighthaunt. Sometimes the dice are sadness. Kurdoss' mace is -really- swingy. I got 2d6 damage past the Cauldron's armor save, and did 3 wounds, that roll of a 1 and a 2 was extremely upsetting. Cauldron had 4 wounds left, if it had fallen mopping up the last Sisters of Slaughter and the Hag Queen would have been nearly in the bag. Points of Order I could have won the game on turn 1. My initial charge gained me control of his objective, the Captain had control of the middle objective, and I had x2 Chainrasp units in the underworld. All i had to do was bring in one unit in my own backfield and I would have controlled all three, ending the game immediately. However we were both wanting to play the game for fun. Just figured I would acknowledge that to cut off that feedback I might get. Plans Delayed Pushing herself up from where she had been splayed by a blow from an ancient trumpet, the high priestess snatches up her dagger and surveys the battlefield. Dozens of corpses of her sisters lay sprawled in the dead earth of the miserable wastes of Shyish. Her two best fighters slumped staring in death on the steps of her shrine. Only five of her coven remained, herself included. As her own rage simmered, she could hear the bubble and hiss from inside the now inanimate avatar standing over her. Thank the Lord Khaine for his protection and favor, but now her expedition was derailed. Stooping, she picks up the fallen spear she had attempted to wield against the lead geist who had moved like a blur up her alter to confront her in person. Her eyes go to the perpetual dusk of Shyish, frustration tainting her victory.

I understand and agree with the concern in bodies, as it has been a critique of a lot of my Nighthaunt lists where I go very 'elite' and low model count. I am just not sure the trade of Thanquol for +40 clanrats ends up worth it in the end. Maybe if I took a foot Grey Seer and expanded to like +80 more clanrats they would make a huge difference... but the way I see it, the clanrats are doomed. We do not have ways to return them or resummon them. They will take casualties by the bucket loads, and will have morale issues without me using CP to prevent it. Seems to me, the Clanrats have two purposes, screening and objective capture. Sending one 20 rat blob through a Gnawhole to threaten backfields is a strat I will likely use often, but I do not -want- my front line to survive contact with the enemy. If you embed a Warpfire Thrower team -inside- a clanrat unit, and make sure it is within 3" of the front rank... when battle commences you choose everything before the Warpfire Team. Hopefully, and likely, the clanrats will have been wiped out by the enemy unit, leaving a Warpfire team engaged in melee, and chosen last to fight. Pile in 3" to get as close and into as much of the enemy models as possible. When it switches to your turn... you have a Warpfire team inside 1" of the offending enemy unit, making that 8" range on the flame thrower normally hit every model in the unit. Rolling 60 dice vs. 30 Dark Aelf Witches is brutal, and will likely wipe the unit. Even with their 6+++ only a handful will survive, and those will likely flee from Battleshock. If they spend their CP to prevent it, then they do not have it for buffing the stragglers who Thanqoul can club to death. Vs. more stalwart battleline like Stormcast Liberators... Thanqoul's 4 dice per model still wipes a squad. More elite unit like Decimators or Paladins are prime targets for artillery fire, and more annoying units not prone to melee flame throwers like Prosecutors or Crypt Flayers are also not as clanrat mulchy as the melee threats Warpfire Throwers counter. Liberator equivalents are not going to mulch our rats-slaves as quickly or as effectively as things like skeletons/witches/ghouls/rats/etc. And the things that can really blender a unit of clanrats are also the things most countered by a warpfire thrower. 40 clanrats will get destroyed in one round of combat just as easily as 20 clanrats facing the sort of enemies I will be facing. Investing in those dead rats seems like a waste of points in my local meta. 30 Witch units with 4 attacks each rerolling 1's is the normal mainline engagement I am going to run into. On average they do 30.5 damage to clanrats... having 9 and a half clanrats left over if I am immune to battleshock doesn't seem worth the points investment, when the Warpfire Thrower is the guys who have to step up and clean house afterwards either way. I could be totally wrong, maybe I am missing something or I am living in dream land, I would love to hear more feedback on it. Plus... Thanqoul is way cooler than a Verminlord.

This only makes my point about the Mourngul living in sadness more valid no?

Hey guys... my rat-madness has me second guessing my lists a bunch, and then changes came to the models I can expect to get soon. A friend of mine is getting x3 Carrion Empire boxes, and I have been enlisted to help him sell off extra models, and do some conversions he wants done to his FEC army he will be getting in the end. Turns out... Warp Lightning Cannons, Doomwheeels, and even the new Bomberdier are all going for around $18 on ebay these days, but Stormfiends are still worth a lot. So... instead of getting a single skaven half of one of the boxes, I can choose out the skaven engines instead by not using any stormfiends as they cover the cost of two engines on their own more or less. This means I am going to get my hands on x4 Warp Lightning Cannons and x2 Warlocks for effectively free. That caused me to reevaluate my list, and I realized that even though I wanted to make Jezzails conversions, a Warp Lightning Cannon is more reliable even than the x6 Jezzails I was going to have in my army. New list has come from the ashes of all these changes, is it madness? SKAVENTIDE Arch-Warlock: Deranged Inventor, Esoteric Warp Resonator Warlock Bombardier Warlock Bombardier Thanquol on Boneripper: x4 Warpfire Projectors x20 Clanrats x20 Clanrats x20 Clanrats x4 Warp Lightning Cannons x2 Warpfire Throwers Endless Spell: Soulsnare Shackles That is an even 2000 points. My intention is to be a 'gunline' list, and my main opponents are Daughter of Khaine, and soon FEC. I realized that we can use the 'Deranged Inventor' to make the Bombardiers much safer to use More-More Doomrocket! as getting double 1's is much less likely. Obviously we will do it still, but it should be much less. Likewise, the second Bombardier can use a Warpstone Spark to also reroll hits. That means my x4 Lightning Cannons AND x2 Bombardiers are 'reliably' shooting a bunch of long range death, while wrapped in a furry clanrat shield. Meanwhile the Warpfire Thrower teams lurk in the clanrats to melt enemy units once they are done polishing off the clanrats. Likewise Thanqoul melts things and also beefs up the frontline. I figure Bombardiers and Lightning Cannons can focus on things like Cauldrons of Blood, Zombie Dragons, or even support heroes or small elite unit... freeing up all of my glorious warp fire from Thanquol and the weapon teams to vaporize large horde units like Witches and Ghouls. Is this madness? And is there any reason to use Clans Skryre and Acolytes as battleline? I was tempted because the poison wind globes are more dakka... but I would end up with less bodies. That said... my intention is for the clanrats to die to clear a way for weapon teams anyways... I am not sure the extra bodies are worth the loss in dakka.

Their stat block is good, and they can retreat and charge with flight. That alone makes them good units. Their problem is they compete with better, and are a bit overcosted. I agree they lack a role, but that is mainly due to other units filling it better. IMO if they were made into battleline, even if their points remained the same, they would become much more useful. I would fill all three slots of my battleline with them at current prices and current stats now if I could. I would much prefer them over any of our current battleline, and that includes the Grims. My list does have 45 Bladegeists in it though... and they are sort of doing the Grim's job as it was. But a battleline that could retreat and charge with flying would make a whole different kind of flowing force that would be impossible to lock down. I would love an 'anvil' unit that can up and move whenever I feel like it.

That is sort of also the point of the x20 Clanrats. I want the x30 Witches to butcher all of the clanrats and leave only the Warpfire Thrower sitting inside them engaged. Clanrats are just pillows to protect the Warpfire Throwers so they can self destruct and melt the horde of witches/ghouls that are the main unit of my opponents around here. All my shooting otherwise will be focused on killing Cauldrons of Blood, and various undead dragon type things.

So to be sure... When I am rolling the power for a War Lightning Cannon, I want to roll 1 for the power right? Because then it is 2+ for mortal wounds?