arka0415 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 As a 40k player used to playing Tau, I'm not accustomed to AoS units with short ranges like 14" or 16". Actually, having foot troops with ranges below 30" feels totally foreign! In AoS, I assume, it's uncommon for armies to really open fire until the second or third game turn, once units have moved a little? Or are there tricks for even short-ranged armies to get nice alpha-strike damage? I hear that Freeguild Handgunners are very powerful, but with their short 16" range they're limited to controlling/covering only one objective! I feel like the ability to camp one objective, and shoot at another, is critical to a shooting army's success. How does this work in AoS? Are Crossbowmen better for this sort of tactic? Or is there something I'm not realizing about Handgunners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steini Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 As a 40k player I feel you. Guess they wanted to nerf shooting while giving close combat armies a chance. Guess Only way is to force them in range of your handgunners with cannons or other artillery believe that's why they are that expensive. In objectives based games that means you can't do a gunline but have to deploy agressively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I think it isn't that severe. I play Seraphon so the most common range values for shooting that I see are - 8" Guys with Javelins on the Basti, Stega, and Terradons, Flamethrowers on the Stega - 12" Razordons and buffed Salamanders - 16" Skinks with Boltspitters - 20" Bastiladon's Searing Beam - 25" Stegadon's Skystreak Bow From my (beginner's) point of view the 20" and 25" are good ranges, except when facing someone who has real artillery, or an elite unit with 30" like a Kurnoth Hunter. And if I don't mess up my deployment or movement even some of my Skinks usually get to shoot the enemy in round one or (at the latest) two. Most armies' ranged units (units whose main weapon is ranged, not something like a Maw-Krusha who ) have something between 14" and 22" range. Those with short range (like Plague Drones or Salamanders or Javelin Skinks) often make up for it with more damage, they are shotgun/flamethrower/pistol guys basically if you think in modern terms. I think @Steini got it right, the system is meant to give melee armies a chance. If you consider something like Nurgle or Ironjawz attacking my Seraphon army it is already hard for them as it is. If my Skinks had 30" range (any Seraphon player's wet dream :D) they wouldn't stand a chance. The result would be only shooting armies facing each other. In real life a melee only army doesn't stand much of a chance against someone carrying firearms, in a sci-fi/fantasy gaming system it is intended to have armies that rely on melee, mainly for dramatic/gameplay variety reasons. That's why most mass units don't have long range shooting. And that's also why many people see Kurnoth Hunters as a bit OP. They have very long range compared to most other AoS units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Steini said: In objectives based games that means you can't do a gunline but have to deploy agressively. Do you have experience with aggressive deployments? What tends to work for you? 19 minutes ago, Aginor said: I think it isn't that severe. ... From my (beginner's) point of view the 20" and 24" are good ranges, except when facing someone who has real artillery, or an elite unit with 30" like a Kurnoth Hunter. And if I don't mess up my deployment or movement even some of my Skinks usually get to shoot the enemy in round one or (at the latest) two. How do you get a round one shooting attack in? It seems to me that you'd need at least 20" shooting range, deploy as close as possible to the enemy, and get a 4"-5" move. The 24" minimum distance between armies seems to make things tough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Well, to be honest my friend I play against plays Ironjawz. Se here's an example: I deploy JUST far away so he is unlikely to make the charge but has something closer than 18", I let him take turn one, he comes running across the table, in my turn I move forward two or four inches if necessary, so he is within 16", and shoot the hell out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHarrison Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Have a look at waywatcher heroes, high elf repeater bolt thrower a and kurnoth hunters with bows. Might somehow build a list with those that works ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmanphill Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 5 hours ago, AlexHarrison said: Have a look at waywatcher heroes, high elf repeater bolt thrower a and kurnoth hunters with bows. Might somehow build a list with those that works ??? They aren't really FREE PEOPLE though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, Redmanphill said: They aren't really FREE PEOPLE though Can't get much freeer than wood elves and Sylvaneth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmanphill Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 58 minutes ago, Aezeal said: Can't get much freeer than wood elves and Sylvaneth. I had free guild in mind... sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzel Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Crossbows have 20" range. That is the max. on your battleline shooting. 40k indeed has longer range, But!! In AoS you can shoot into combat. Now free guild peoples have acces to some nice tarpit units like freeguild guard with sword and shield or demigryph knights or even the general on grifgon. If you throw ironweld arsonal in the mix, a steam tank is also a great unit that can tie up a lot of different units. Count yourself fortunate the freeguild doesn't have too many common long range units but great supporting fire units. Which is one of its greatest assets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltpliskin Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I tried to get around it by having a luminark and two cannons which practically guarantees enemies will have to toddle into range Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Handgunners best unit in the army! Screen with sword and board guard and they are terrifying with the piper rule. Backed up with cannons or rocket batteries, your opponent has to be incredibly careful of positioning. the psychological effects are awesome. Buffed up with battalions and the generals stand and shoot, they can take a unit off a turn. Range isn't all that important as with artillery they have to come to you or suffer losing a unit a couple heros or a monster a turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Blitzel said: Crossbows have 20" range. That is the max. on your battleline shooting. Are you a fan of Crossbows? I feel like Handgunners have the edge in damage but as a Tau player I guess I'm drawn to the longer range! 4 hours ago, Hyperion said: Handgunners best unit in the army! Screen with sword and board guard and they are terrifying with the piper rule. Backed up with cannons or rocket batteries, your opponent has to be incredibly careful of positioning. the psychological effects are awesome. Buffed up with battalions and the generals stand and shoot, they can take a unit off a turn. So far in my 2000pt army I'm running a Cannon, Helblaster, and Steam Tank, but I'm building them now so I haven't used them yet. Lots of people say that artillery crews get knocked out too easily... but I guess if the enemy teleports/infiltrates/whatever to get close to you, then I guess they've walked into the teeth of the gunline already? And if they hang back then the artillery can have a field day with them. Have you had the most success with the Helstorm and Cannon then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 sot shooting is pretty shoot range in AOS, though really as you can shoot while in close combat, and even better free people can shoot when charged it's not such a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 On 4/25/2017 at 4:21 PM, arka0415 said: So far in my 2000pt army I'm running a Cannon, Helblaster, and Steam Tank, but I'm building them now so I haven't used them yet. Lots of people say that artillery crews get knocked out too easily... but I guess if the enemy teleports/infiltrates/whatever to get close to you, then I guess they've walked into the teeth of the gunline already? And if they hang back then the artillery can have a field day with them. Have you had the most success with the Helstorm and Cannon then? Great success with helstorms! specifically with the hurricanum supporting. if you are not going to use the hurricanum, i might lean towards cannons with engineers. I dont use a pure "freeguild" list either. the crews can get shot off by opposing artillery or long ranged shooting units if they take first turn, but I try to mitigate this as much as possible by deploying out of los. Im not usually too worried about having them charged even by teleports or outflanks because I keep them well screened with swordsman and a big unit of handgunners and dont give room for units to come on board edges near them. Kharadrons may change this with the deepstriking boats filled with strong shooting. the gryph hounds with the handgunners pipers basically allow me to overwatch twice though. so usually people have to choose if they are going to waste shooting on a 40 point model not saying its unbeatable by any means, definitely have trouble with triple stonehorns and other top tier lists (but who doesnt ) Been using this, pretty fun, has weaknesses for sure and positioning and spacing for 1st/2nd turn is really important, but i think that's any game with any list. LeadersCelestial Hurricanum With Celestial BattlemageFreeguild General Gunmaster Battleline30 x Freeguild Handgunners 30 x Freeguild Guard 10 x Freeguild Guard Units2 x Gryph-Hound10 x Miners 10 x Miners War MachinesHelstorm Rocket Battery Helstorm Rocket Battery Helstorm Rocket Battery Total: 1980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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