Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[Tidings]

1 hour ago, Runicmadhamster said:

Three Waywatchers (the heroes not the unit) are a terrifying thing go face down. I have used two of them to take down a Hydra in a single round of shooting, using Fast Shot of course, because 6 shots hitting on 2s, with a 5 and a 6 being an extra shot is truly wonderful.

They are what I imagine Wanderers to be. Maybe prefer the +1 to hit coming from something other than standing still but yeah, they are awesome. I especially love spamming them with a Hurricanum for that sweet 4+ bonus shot.

[Origin]

@BloodTithe Thanks for the link. A very long winded way of saying Hunters a better, not so much for their shooting but all the supporting rules that keep them alive.

I'm going to explore using SoW over GG as my primary battle line. Something like this...

20 EG
30 GG
10 SoW
10 SoW

One unit of glade is enough for the first turn nuke, once they have loosed their bodkins GG are so underwhelming. I feel that the sisters have enough out-of-sequence shooting that they will generate more shots over the course of the game. And the models are nicer, at least to me.

By making a WW the general we do lose the re-roll ones but i think the blanket -1 to hit can be very useful, especially when paired with a Prince with the Shawl inside a waystone battalion. The prince having a -2 to hit from shooting makes him all the more survivable and considering how key he is for the battalion, this can't be bad. 

To combat the loss of the re-roll 1s a knight-azyros can be allied in 12" move + run should get him within the 10" aoe. 

[Yeled]

@BloodTithe, nice video. I think you hit the nail on the head when you used the word "situational." Too many Wanderer units, including Sisters of the Watch, Eternal Guard, and Wyldwood Rangers, are situational in terms of their effectiveness. And in the case of the first two the situations are standing still instead of using our allegiance abilities.

[Runicmadhamster]

2 hours ago, Origin said:

@BloodTithe Thanks for the link. A very long winded way of saying Hunters a better, not so much for their shooting but all the supporting rules that keep them alive.

I'm going to explore using SoW over GG as my primary battle line. Something like this...

20 EG
30 GG
10 SoW
10 SoW

One unit of glade is enough for the first turn nuke, once they have loosed their bodkins GG are so underwhelming. I feel that the sisters have enough out-of-sequence shooting that they will generate more shots over the course of the game. And the models are nicer, at least to me.

By making a WW the general we do lose the re-roll ones but i think the blanket -1 to hit can be very useful, especially when paired with a Prince with the Shawl inside a waystone battalion. The prince having a -2 to hit from shooting makes him all the more survivable and considering how key he is for the battalion, this can't be bad. 

To combat the loss of the re-roll 1s a knight-azyros can be allied in 12" move + run should get him within the 10" aoe. 

I am interested to hear how SoW as Battline go. Before GHv2 i didn't take them, now i take them as the Nomad Prince's guard as he teleports about the table

[Aezeal]

9 hours ago, Runicmadhamster said:

Three Waywatchers (the heroes not the unit) are a terrifying thing go face down. I have used two of them to take down a Hydra in a single round of shooting, using Fast Shot of course, because 6 shots hitting on 2s, with a 5 and a 6 being an extra shot is truly wonderful.

Yeah it's their rend 1 that makes them invaluable.

 

10 hours ago, BloodTithe said:

For anyone interested  (I posted this in the sylvaneth forum too). Sisters of the watch are epic! (This video does have a slight focus on whether or not you should replace your hunters for sisters in a sylvaneth army, but you may find it interesting anyway).

 

Ive not had time to watch it but looked at his conclusion which seems to favor hunters. They are not really easy to compare since hunters overall damage out put isn't great (people mention this in sylvaneth topic too) but dealing mass damage is not their function:they are snipers of essential models which will be of more value against certain lists. Sisters don't have the range to target support characters behind lines but are more damage dealers (with teleporting they can snipe ofc but it's likely to leave them exposed)... ofc  the toughness of hunters is nice too. I'd wish our sisters of the watch had rend 1 too though. 

[The Wanderer]

So I'm thinking of going:

 

Waystone Pathfinders Battalion 

Nomad Prince + Stalker of the Hidden Paths + Viridescent Shawl 

Spellweaver + Heartwood Staff + Forget-me-knot 

3xWaywatchers 

10 Eternal Guard

30 Glade Guard

30 Glade Guard

10 Wildwood Rangers

2x5 Wild Riders 

1960

 

It does occur to me I can scrap the Wildwood Rangers and add a unit of 30 Eternal Guard too. Could also switch the Forget-me-knot for the range extender on one of the Waywatchers.

[Yeled]

It makes me sad that our allegiance abilities render so many of our elite units undesirable.

@The Wanderer, don't you need the WWR for the battalion?

[The Wanderer]

@Yeled They would be replaced with a second unit of Eternal Guard.

[Yeled]

11 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

@Yeled They would be replaced with a second unit of Eternal Guard.

Ah, right. For some reason I was thinking that either SotW or WWR were required, but EG and GG work as well.

[Oppenheimer]

I had posted pictures to this thread a couple weeks back as I was so excited by the idea of an alliegance and getting to use my Wanderers that had been shelved since the Sylvaneth split occurred. But between Orion, Sisters of Twilight, Spellweaver on mount, War hawk Riders, Glade lord on great stag and glade riders not being usable in it I've lost all my initiative I had to rebase and paint them all. Or play them at all. With all those heroes gone I don't even have enough points or battleline for my Wanderers army anymore.

[Tidings]

3 hours ago, Oppenheimer said:

I had posted pictures to this thread a couple weeks back as I was so excited by the idea of an alliegance and getting to use my Wanderers that had been shelved since the Sylvaneth supply occurred. But between Orion, Sisters of Twilight, Spellweaver on mount, War hawk Riders, Glade lord on great stag and glade riders not being usable in it I've lost all my initiative I had to rebase and paint them all. Or play them at all. With all those heroes gone I don't even have enough points or battleline for my Wanderers army anymore.

I totally feel your pain man. It's really hard to not feel alienated and bitter when half your models are invalidated by the keyword culling. I would proxy your Glade Riders as Reavers (which are just better anyways). I use my Wardancers as Wildwood Rangers now and everyone is cool with it, including the guys organizing the tournaments in my city. My Glade Lord on a Great Eagle has become a Wanderer-themed Frostheart Phoenix for the same reason. Not sure what to do with my Orion either though. Thought about using him as a centerpiece for my custom Hurricanum, but I went a different route because I'm hoping to find some other use for him. 

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, Tidings said:

I totally feel your pain man. It's really hard to not feel alienated and bitter when half your models are invalidated by the keyword culling. I would proxy your Glade Riders as Reavers (which are just better anyways). I use my Wardancers as Wildwood Rangers now and everyone is cool with it, including the guys organizing the tournaments in my city. My Glade Lord on a Great Eagle has become a Wanderer-themed Frostheart Phoenix for the same reason. Not sure what to do with my Orion either though. Thought about using him as a centerpiece for my custom Hurricanum, but I went a different route because I'm hoping to find some other use for him. 

I had to get 10 of my 20 year old monopose glade guard to play my game tomorrow :D, only have 40 regular GG (painted) and had another 10 old waywatchers I'm using as GG too. My new waywatchers are now acting as waywatcher (heroes) since I only had 1 of those but they are very similar to their hero IMHO. 

[Origin]

2 hours ago, Tidings said:

Not sure what to do with my Orion either though. Thought about using him as a centerpiece for my custom Hurricanum, but I went a different route because I'm hoping to find some other use for him. 

Run him as some beef cake stormcast character.... 

Using the glade riders as reavers is a great idea. 

[Runicmadhamster]

2 hours ago, Tidings said:

I totally feel your pain man. It's really hard to not feel alienated and bitter when half your models are invalidated by the keyword culling. I would proxy your Glade Riders as Reavers (which are just better anyways). I use my Wardancers as Wildwood Rangers now and everyone is cool with it, including the guys organizing the tournaments in my city. My Glade Lord on a Great Eagle has become a Wanderer-themed Frostheart Phoenix for the same reason. Not sure what to do with my Orion either though. Thought about using him as a centerpiece for my custom Hurricanum, but I went a different route because I'm hoping to find some other use for him. 

Wardancers as Swordmasters could work well.

[Oppenheimer]

1 hour ago, Origin said:

Run him as some beef cake stormcast character.... 

Using the glade riders as reavers is a great idea. 

Good advice everyone thanks!

But god anything but a stormcast ?

[Origin]

Reflections on a couple of games I had last night. Faced my long time nemesis and his mixed nurgle force using the Blightwar wheel. Which is a great mechanic. 

We used the open war deck for some shuts (insert kiwi accent) and giggles. The deck is good for some easy pick up games but does tend to be very simple sometimes imbalanced missions.  They do make you think however. 

1st game was 4 objectives scoring a point at the end of every turn. Deployment ended up being nurgle in each corner and me deployed in a 24" bubble in the centre.

Was a fun game, I deployed everything in the centre even though I had the option of the null deploy, curtsey of our battalion. I circled the wagons, a ring of 30 eternal guard, and all the archers, characters and cav in the centre. Failed to get my buffs on the EG, so dropped IP on them and began to shoot him off the board,  as the EG took the brunt of the charge. Despite taking out most his forces I lost by a bit on objectives. They were just too scattered for me to cap them without exposing my very fragile archers to certain death. 

In this match the battalion was invaluable, 1 drop and double shooting really put the hurt on. It keep me alive but lost me the game in a glorious paradox. I really missed having a strong, fast combat piece to threaten objectives. To fit that piece in however I would have to drop the battalion which would have lost me the game, which I already lost... 

Game 2 was using same lists but with a 24" deployment from the short edge. Had a comet dropping on turn 3 either in the middle of the table quarters or the centre of the board. We deployed coy, he keep out of range, I pushed forward so the EG could get into range of the middle if the comet landed there. Was a bit of a dumb mission because if the comet landed in either of our sides, neither of us had no way of getting to it. Luckily it landed in the middle and the blood bath ensued. 

The EG were so good this game, had them in a thin line across the board with all their buffs up. Almost his entire army charged them. 6 drones, 5 blight kings, 4 beasts, 40 buffed plague monks and a furnace. 3+ re-rollable save with mortal wounds bouncing back on 4+... He lost as many models as I did, IP on the EG was critical.  We darkened the sky with arrows, shooting the ****** out of him. Waywatchers being to real punch here. Think I need to jump on the Hurricanum bandwagon... 

Again I just lacked anyway to TAKE objectives, I can shoot him off no troubles but without a follow up charge a single filthy rat is all he needs to keep it. In the end I had him down to 4 models around the comet and had to charge in the SoT, needing them to just survive. They didn't. Another win for papa nurgle. 

Im having fun with the battalion and our new allegiance abilities, but they don't feel like a 'complete' army.

Not being able to compete in the combat phase just feels like I'm missing half of the game. Wanderers are not dissimilar to Free Peoples in that they are a defensive shooting army but at least the humans can throw the Chicken General at them. We need a Chicken General... 

GW, give me a Chicken General, a Dire Stag, a Giant Stag Bettle, something... Anything... 

[Runicmadhamster]

Hmmm, maybe i should give the Pathfinders another shot. Seems their rules, combined with the new stuff, works well.

[Yeled]

7 hours ago, Oppenheimer said:

I had posted pictures to this thread a couple weeks back as I was so excited by the idea of an alliegance and getting to use my Wanderers that had been shelved since the Sylvaneth split occurred. But between Orion, Sisters of Twilight, Spellweaver on mount, War hawk Riders, Glade lord on great stag and glade riders not being usable in it I've lost all my initiative I had to rebase and paint them all. Or play them at all. With all those heroes gone I don't even have enough points or battleline for my Wanderers army anymore.

I totally understand your feelings, and some of the suggestions above are really good ideas. Remember, too, that you can use old Warscrolls per the FAQ. So you can keep all the compendium models as Wanderers if your group isn't really strict. You just have to use new points.

 

12 minutes ago, Origin said:

GW, give me a Chicken General, a Dire Stag, a Giant Stag Bettle, something... Anything... 

Thanks for the write up. I love reading about people's games. Gives me all sorts of ideas.

I agree that we need a few pieces to make us stronger in the combat phase. Hmmm.

[Origin]

@Yeled No worries, I enjoy the post match write up, helps me improve. In hindsight I should have been way more aggressive with my teleports. There were opportunities to hit flanks and dance around a bit more. 

I need to remember that even though we shoot better when stationary the teleporting does people's heads in, causes them to spilt and chase shadows. I might rework the way I play the list to have a static element of EG, SoW, SoT and a spellweaver with a more mobile element of WR, GG and Prince that focuses on hitting shut (kiwi accent) all over the place. That style might even make a Wayfinder a bit more appealing for that one turn nuke. Nah, waywatchers are just far better. 

Maybe a unit of 10 WR might perform as a combat unit? 41 attacks is nothing to sneeze at. 

Oh and a Waywatcher on damned terrain with our healing spell is ace, if a little situational. One of the buggers scored 12 hits in a single shot... 

[Tidings]

2 hours ago, Origin said:

Waywatchers being to real punch here. Think I need to jump on the Hurricanum bandwagon... 

Again I just lacked anyway to TAKE objectives, I can shoot him off no troubles but without a follow up charge a single filthy rat is all he needs to keep it. In the end I had him down to 4 models around the comet and had to charge in the SoT, needing them to just survive. They didn't. Another win for papa nurgle. 

Im having fun with the battalion and our new allegiance abilities, but they don't feel like a 'complete' army.

The Hurricanum with Waywatchers is fantastic but that's not all it does. It's an amazing source of MW output. Just works so well for Wanderers. Which leads me to my next point!

I totally agree, the Wanderer allegiance abilities are fun but really just... bad at helping you win games. They can be used well to assist in grabbing objectives but that depends a lot on the scenario and your opponent's positioning. After playing a bunch of games with the teleporting, I have to say I think an advancing gunline is just better all around.  By trading teleporting for a better unit roster, you aren't a one-trick-pony. There's nothing that you "do" that can be countered when your army is just a powerful gunline moving up on objectives while mowing stuff down. 

It's not fluffy or as flavorful as the teleporting, but honestly, it's more competitive. Wanderers without Orion, Dragon, etc is just too reliant on shooting, and our shooting isn't spectacular enough to kill enemies fast enough to win objectives. It almost is, but not quite. 

As another note, I find that while the Waystone Pathfinders lets you do a ton of damage, I think I actually do more damage as Mixed Order. GG hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s, with -3 rending is nuts. Waywatchers getting an average of 9 attacks (6 wounds at -1 rend) a turn next to a Hurricanum. Kurnoths mowing ****** down with Bows and scythes, again thanks to the +1 bubble. Having mortal wounds to help you cut right through the toughest target. The damage increase going this route is just there, it doesn't come from careful positioning, your general being alive AND the enemy you want to kill being close. It's more reliable damage than Waystone Pathfinders in my experience. 

[Tidings]

Hey guys, as requested I put together a full battle report of my game against the Ironjaws. I think it highlights perfectly the weaknesses of the Wanderers when focusing on the allegiance abilities or Waystone Pathfinders too much. Granted this scenario with this opponent was a horrible matchup, and lots of things went wrong, but I still think an advancing gunline would have just walked to one objective and taken it. 

Instead of flooding this forum with all the images, I made an imgur album with descriptions for each turn. Let me know if ya'll like it, took me about 5 hours to put together!

https://imgur.com/a/rtnqW

@Cambot1231 hope this is what you were asking to see.

 

[Aezeal]

8 hours ago, Origin said:

Reflections on a couple of games I had last night. Faced my long time nemesis and his mixed nurgle force using the Blightwar wheel. Which is a great mechanic. 

We used the open war deck for some shuts (insert kiwi accent) and giggles. The deck is good for some easy pick up games but does tend to be very simple sometimes imbalanced missions.  They do make you think however. 

1st game was 4 objectives scoring a point at the end of every turn. Deployment ended up being nurgle in each corner and me deployed in a 24" bubble in the centre.

Was a fun game, I deployed everything in the centre even though I had the option of the null deploy, curtsey of our battalion. I circled the wagons, a ring of 30 eternal guard, and all the archers, characters and cav in the centre. Failed to get my buffs on the EG, so dropped IP on them and began to shoot him off the board,  as the EG took the brunt of the charge. Despite taking out most his forces I lost by a bit on objectives. They were just too scattered for me to cap them without exposing my very fragile archers to certain death. 

In this match the battalion was invaluable, 1 drop and double shooting really put the hurt on. It keep me alive but lost me the game in a glorious paradox. I really missed having a strong, fast combat piece to threaten objectives. To fit that piece in however I would have to drop the battalion which would have lost me the game, which I already lost... 

Game 2 was using same lists but with a 24" deployment from the short edge. Had a comet dropping on turn 3 either in the middle of the table quarters or the centre of the board. We deployed coy, he keep out of range, I pushed forward so the EG could get into range of the middle if the comet landed there. Was a bit of a dumb mission because if the comet landed in either of our sides, neither of us had no way of getting to it. Luckily it landed in the middle and the blood bath ensued. 

The EG were so good this game, had them in a thin line across the board with all their buffs up. Almost his entire army charged them. 6 drones, 5 blight kings, 4 beasts, 40 buffed plague monks and a furnace. 3+ re-rollable save with mortal wounds bouncing back on 4+... He lost as many models as I did, IP on the EG was critical.  We darkened the sky with arrows, shooting the ****** out of him. Waywatchers being to real punch here. Think I need to jump on the Hurricanum bandwagon... 

Again I just lacked anyway to TAKE objectives, I can shoot him off no troubles but without a follow up charge a single filthy rat is all he needs to keep it. In the end I had him down to 4 models around the comet and had to charge in the SoT, needing them to just survive. They didn't. Another win for papa nurgle. 

Im having fun with the battalion and our new allegiance abilities, but they don't feel like a 'complete' army.

Not being able to compete in the combat phase just feels like I'm missing half of the game. Wanderers are not dissimilar to Free Peoples in that they are a defensive shooting army but at least the humans can throw the Chicken General at them. We need a Chicken General... 

GW, give me a Chicken General, a Dire Stag, a Giant Stag Bettle, something... Anything... 

Ally sylvaneth melee hunters.

[Origin]

@Tidings Nice write up mate. Love the images, what's the program you use to do it? 

Duality of death had to be our worst mission. Objectives are deep in the board and we lack heroes. You did well, considering.

Very similar to my experiences. 

[VBS]

18 hours ago, Tidings said:

Not sure what to do with my Orion either though. Thought about using him as a centerpiece for my custom Hurricanum, but I went a different route because I'm hoping to find some other use for him. 

Could work as a Spirit of Durthu or should I saw Spirit of Kurnous (Kurnoth if you want to be AoS-correct). The rules aren't too far off (profile, abilities, sword similar to his spear), except maybe the range of his blast which is too short for a massive bow   Enventually a Treelord/Ancient too....

[Tidings]

4 hours ago, Origin said:

@Tidings Nice write up mate. Love the images, what's the program you use to do it? 

Duality of death had to be our worst mission. Objectives are deep in the board and we lack heroes. You did well, considering.

Very similar to my experiences. 

Thanks man! I just use Photoshop. Now that I have a base file with the board, terrain, model sizes etc made it should be much faster to rearrange stuff for future battle reports. 

Yeah, it's brutal. Armies like Khorne and Destruction can move onto objectives in one turn, while we don't have a single behemoth or hero who can run that far. The best we can do is deploy 12" in and hope for a 3+ on the run roll to make it within 3", but that's suicide since the entire Ironjaws army can comfortably move faster than us Elves. 

I think on this objective we have to forget about teleporting altogether and just run straight for one objective. Just feels like a bad strat though, because he'll get both objectives on his first turn meaning we have to not only secure one right away, but also shake him off the other one. And the whole time, we aren't playing to our strengths or using our allegiance abilities and traits. Feel like this is the case on several other scenarios as well.