Square Bases Opinion:

[broche]

25 mm square base is 625 square mm. 

32 mm round base is a bit over 800 square mm. 

It's almost 30% more board area. 

square base offer an undoubtful advantage when attacking (even with 1'' reach you can attack 2 rank even with 25 square)

round base might offer you somewhat of an advantage when trying to cover an area (like around an objective) but it's quite unclear...

[HeadHunter]

Stop comparing smaller square bases to larger round ones!  If you're talking 25mm squares, compare them to 25mm rounds.

It reminds me of the people that used to say "Why should I buy a 3.3 GHz processor when I can overclock my 3.0 to be as fast as yours?" Well, because I can overclock mine even faster?

Yes, if someone is deliberately putting something on a base smaller or larger than is reasonable and intended, that's one thing.  But using the base it comes with? Or a base on which the model fits best?

Take a look at the base the new Dwarf Death Roller from Blood Bowl comes on, if you want to see how ridiculous that can get.

[Rhellion]

On 2/8/2017 at 10:01 PM, Sleboda said:

Don't worry about bases.  They are not considered in the rules. People who try to force you to change the rules for bases might as well try to force you to use only certain colors for feathers.  They both have the same rules validity. 

You should definitely worry about bases for the future of your army if you plan on playing in events. If you don't want to worry about events, don't worry about bases.

Moving forward, events are starting to require round bases.

[Flogger]

At my club we don't really care. But we haven't been playing that long. Another club an hour north of us played the first year of AoS with whichever bases they wanted, but now they've enforced a rule for their tournaments that in you have squared bases you only get to play with 200p less. At a larger tournament this easter they have enforced the rule that armies with squared bases are welcome but it's always measured as if you'd have the correctly sized round base (if that becomes relevant in some measuring situation) and also, if you have squared bases and face an army with round bases your opponent get's +3 on the choosing sides/starting deployment roll. 

 

Pesonally I don't really care either way, we're such a small community I don't think we should limit players on the basis of their bases (höhö) until at least a few years into the game. 

[RuneBrush]

My own preference is rounds - fantasy wise, I only play AoS so it'd be pretty daft if I did put them on squares   I nearly always play base-to-base.

For me it depends entirely on the mentality of my opponent and how they're playing if I feel there is an issue.  As an example, I played a chap with spear armed skeletons the other day which were all on squares.  Now I know he got more into range than if they were based on 25mm rounds (which is what they're packaged with in the SC box), however this was partly negated by the fact that he couldn't rank up that well against my round based models and quite a few couldn't actually get into range because their spears were in the way   For me it worked out pretty reasonably.  He was pretty happy just roughly measuring everything within the necessary 2" range.

I can see it becoming more of an issue as the years go on within organised events.  I do think mdf bases are a really good half-way-house resolution, providing they're painted to match the base edge colour and don't drop off every time you move a model.

[Bimli]

as there is rule for square bases in the rule book (i think).. aka square or round is fine tourneys should not have any issue with this nor should anyone else for that matter.

[Terry Pike]

1 hour ago, Bimli said:

as there is rule for square bases in the rule book (i think).. aka square or round is fine tourneys should not have any issue with this nor should anyone else for that matter.

Unfortunately this is not the case over in UK as most events require round basing of the correct size (or as close to). There is also nothing in the basic rules regarding squares or rounds, as played straight from the 4 pages you don't measure base to base and ignore them.

[zachariah_d]

Stop comparing smaller square bases to larger round ones!  If you're talking 25mm squares, compare them to 25mm rounds
Yes, if someone is deliberately putting something on a base smaller or larger than is reasonable and intended, that's one thing.  But using the base it comes with? Or a base on which the model f

Most, if not all, horde type units used to be (and still are for some) on 20mm squares. They are now on 25mm rounds.
This is how they are packaged and on every size chart I looked up.
(Case in point skelletions, ungors etc..)
So, sorry but it is a valid comparison.

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[Bimli]

1 hour ago, Terry Pike said:

Unfortunately this is not the case over in UK as most events require round basing of the correct size (or as close to). There is also nothing in the basic rules regarding squares or rounds, as played straight from the 4 pages you don't measure base to base and ignore them.

That is to bad I'm sure I read somthing about square vs round bases some where ill verify this. Also if measured from the model and not the base what is the issue with square bases. That being said I think a GW official tourney would allow square bases cause I'm sure I read they indicated that you can use either or.... Ill just have to find it.

[Terry Pike]

56 minutes ago, Bimli said:

That is to bad I'm sure I read somthing about square vs round bases some where ill verify this. Also if measured from the model and not the base what is the issue with square bases. That being said I think a GW official tourney would allow square bases cause I'm sure I read they indicated that you can use either or.... Ill just have to find it.

You can use either square or round at the GW events (currently, eventually this will probably change).

So far I haven't seen any square bases in the photos from GW events or any on the live stream, so it could be an unwritten rule of only rounds allowed in the Warhammer event media?

If you are measuring model to model then different base shapes would have no impact.

[Sleboda]

4 hours ago, Flogger said:

Another club an hour north of us played the first year of AoS with whichever bases they wanted, but now they've enforced a rule for their tournaments that in you have squared bases you only get to play with 200p less.

Wow.  So now people who just want to play by the rules of the game are being significantly penalized for not adding in layers of extra rules that don't even exist?  Sad.  

We really are moving backwards.  

Next up, all terrain is non- cool, trees have infinite height, and woods block LoS despite not actually doing so. 

I hear the 9th Age folks are looking for players...

[Bimli]

5 hours ago, Flogger said:

At my club we don't really care. But we haven't been playing that long. Another club an hour north of us played the first year of AoS with whichever bases they wanted, but now they've enforced a rule for their tournaments that in you have squared bases you only get to play with 200p less. At a larger tournament this easter they have enforced the rule that armies with squared bases are welcome but it's always measured as if you'd have the correctly sized round base (if that becomes relevant in some measuring situation) and also, if you have squared bases and face an army with round bases your opponent get's +3 on the choosing sides/starting deployment roll. 

 

Pesonally I don't really care either way, we're such a small community I don't think we should limit players on the basis of their bases (höhö) until at least a few years into the game. 

wow that is just nuts... count me out for that place...

[chord]

Yeah, strange some rule are followed some are not.

[HeadHunter]

5 hours ago, zachariah_d said:

So, sorry but it is a valid comparison.
 

 

Still waiting to hear how a round base of the same size as the square base would take up more room.

Otherwise, I could easily refute your point by saying that I can fit more models with 32mm round bases in an area, compared to 40mm square ones.

But if we're going along your line of "logic", consider how many older models came on 40mm squares that now come with 32 or 40mm rounds.

I'm sure if we want to use numbers that don't compare to prove a point, we can prove whatever advantage or disadvantage we like.  

[zachariah_d]

Still waiting to hear how a round base of the same size as the square base would take up more room.
Otherwise, I could easily refute your point by saying that I can fit more models with 32mm round bases in an area, compared to 40mm square ones.
But if we're going along your line of "logic", consider how many older models came on 40mm squares that now come with 32 or 40mm rounds.
I'm sure if we want to use numbers that don't compare to prove a point, we can prove whatever advantage or disadvantage we like.  

They don't come on same sized rounds. That is the point. Is anyone putting small infantry like skeletons, ungors (and MANY others), from their 20mm, square into 20mm rounds? I doubt it , as GW does not even make 20mm rounds, and no sizing chart mentions them. They ship with 25mm rounds, from GW.


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[HeadHunter]

So they either keep them on the bases they were supplied with, or choose to put them on larger ones.  Again, I fail to see the perceived "advantage" of using a model as it is provided.  There are upsides, but there are also drawbacks.  As others have pointed out, it makes a difference whether you measure from the model or from the base.

Regardless, it's still a false equivalency.  Also, keep in mind that models on smaller bases have to maintain a closer coherency and thus control less of the board. Ask any 40k player how that's changed.  There are advantages and disadvantages either way, so you can't argue that one option is unilaterally advantageous. 

And seriously, if base shape is that big of an issue to you... are you sure you're still playing a game?  I'm baffled by people who have to dissect every aspect of the rules in an effort to either gain an edge or just simply ruin everyone else's fun.  The "advantage" to not caring about the size or shape of the opponent's bases is that they might actually enjoy playing with you and want to do so again.

[broche]

13 hours ago, Rhellion said:

You should definitely worry about bases for the future of your army if you plan on playing in events. If you don't want to worry about events, don't worry about bases.

Moving forward, events are starting to require round bases.

I doubt event can enforce round base as long as game workshop is still selling unit with square base

[zachariah_d]

Just to be clear, I totally agree with Armiesrevenge when he posted " If the people you actually know are happy to play with and against square bases, then it's completely fine.  Full stop. " and that the advantage gained from smaller bases, is small, and I agree with headhunter that there are some drawbacks to smaller bases.

 

However, the point still stands, that tournaments, and therefore, some local stores and groups, are banning or penalizing squares, and they have a somewhat valid point, esp in the case of the 20mm squares vs 25mm rounds they have been replaced with (not a player choice, this is what GW did). The advantage in the majority of cases will go to the smaller base, even is it is marginal advantage.

And before you lump me in with this strict crowd of rules lawyers pooping on everyone's fun.... Most of my 6k+ death army is on square (from the 90's-endtimes), I have no plans to re-base them, and my friends and I don't care. Actually my seraphon buddy converted to all rounds and gives me ****** for squares (in fun way). Most of my experience with this subject if from me murdering his round Dino's with my square skeleton horde. But my new AOS Sylvaneth army is all round. I will also say, storage is way more efficient for my squares, as I magnetize everything and store them standing on metal trays (and can therefore store more units per square foot).

I suppose, if I ever care enough to play a tourney, or at the GW store (unlikely) I would do as some others mentioned, magnetize a thin round metal/magnetic sheeting disk or something under the square. That way I can still use them for 9th age, or other games. But I'm way to lazy and busy making new models to re-base my squares.

[HeadHunter]

I'm not a tournament player.  In fact I'm kind of turned off by the Win At Any Cost ultra-competitive mindset.  I don't model for advantage - hell even my army list is designed more with the Rule of Cool in mind than anything else.  

So when I hear that I have to re-base my army or that I can't play certain models, I go somewhere else.  I've never liked GW's policy of GW-only models in events, especially when it's something they no longer make (like most Blood Bowl teams).  So if it comes down to that, I'll find something more fun to do.

[B1acKni9ht]

On 2/8/2017 at 8:10 PM, Galas said:

I assume someone has to question this in the past... and if this is the wrong forum, please feel free to move or block it.

 

So, my question is... I still play Warhammer, Kings of War, and other rank-n-file wargames with my collection, but I'm beginnin to play Age of Sigmar to. I know the official rules don't impose round bases, but we all know how that works: If the community don't want square bases you will play with yourself.

As my small group is beginning with Age of Sigmar, only 1 guy has round bases. So... my questions are... playing square bases vs round bases has a big impact in the game? Is notably detrimental to the experience? For now I don't feel that's the case but, as I don't play with round bases I have no experience to compare a square vs square game and a round vs round game.

If I go and play to a club, do you think that I'll have problems playign with square based army? 

 

Pd: Sorry for my english.

There is technically an advantage to playing with the older square bases compared to the new, but there are some workarounds to this so that it doesn't get out of hand.

Where the older style bases really shine is piling in and attacking in "ranks". This difference becomes alarmingly clear when comparing models that were on 25mm squares that are now on 32mm rounds. With a 1" attack range the square based models would be able to attack in 2 ranks of models, with the 32mm rounds only being able to attack with one rank of models.

The simple solution to this is just house ruling that all 25mm square based models will fight like they are on 32mm rounds, giving you just 1 rank of attacks. 

I even apply the same house rule for some of the models that I have on older style of rounds. Bloodletters now come with 32mm rounds, but I have them with the 25mm rounds that they were supplied with. As Bloodletters only have a 1" attack range, I just count the attacks for models I can get B2B with the enemy.  I apply this same house rule to my Daemonettes even though they haven't gotten an Age of Sigmar update. 

While this doesn't fix the problem that your stuff that's based on squares will get more models in on a certain frontage, it does help slightly with the discrepancy. Hey, if it gets you playing Age of Sigmar, just run with your squares. 

[Sleboda]

10 minutes ago, B1acKni9ht said:

The simple solution to this is just house ruling that all 25mm square based models will fight like they are on 32mm rounds, giving you just 1 rank of attacks. 

Not true.

The simplest solution is to not create new rules and just play the game as is.

[RuneBrush]

6 hours ago, broche said:

I doubt event can enforce round base as long as game workshop is still selling unit with square base

I think I've seen events do this already - house rule of base to base measuring and army selection rule saying models must be on appropriate round bases.  Thing is that it's not difficult to pick up a load of cheap round bases, mdf or third party ones are pretty cheap and if you buy GW's in packs of 100 then they're pretty reasonable too.

[HeadHunter]

Oh, it's not difficult to pick up new bases, but it might not be so easy to remove the models from their existing bases and rebase them - especially for someone who put a lot of work into making the bases look nice before.

The base is intended to be there solely to support the model - that's why the rules say to measure from the closest points on the models.  Anything else is a "House rule" and I personally don't think tournaments should use anything but the official rules.

[RuneBrush]

12 minutes ago, HeadHunter said:

Oh, it's not difficult to pick up new bases, but it might not be so easy to remove the models from their existing bases and rebase them - especially for someone who put a lot of work into making the bases look nice before.

Please don't think I'm saying it's easy to rebase models!  I know it's a complete pain and for somebody who's spent a lot of time with a nice base, it can be heartbreaking to demolish it (if the model survives).  My comment was aimed at somebody who had just bought a new box of models with square bases in.  Unless you're planning on playing a different system which requires ranking or wish to match an existing army, there's no real reason to not pick up some round bases for them.

26 minutes ago, HeadHunter said:

The base is intended to be there solely to support the model - that's why the rules say to measure from the closest points on the models.  Anything else is a "House rule" and I personally don't think tournaments should use anything but the official rules.

The thing is that the core of AoS encourages house rules - even GW house rule the tournaments they run to use base to base measuring and compulsory painted models, which is common place across the whole tournament scene.  I actually think it's pretty rare to find a tournament that uses the rules verbatim at the current point in time.

[Terry Pike]

2 hours ago, HeadHunter said:

Anything else is a "House rule" and I personally don't think tournaments should use anything but the official rules.

House rules are a must for competitive play though. Straight out of the 4 pages the game has many holes which can be easily abused. Simple additions such as base to base, can't modify the turn roll, 6's always hit/wound, no stacking of same named buffs etc all make for a more enjoyable and tactical game.