Kuwanger23 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hey guys, I have been researching and reading on AoS and Death lists that people are taking. I see a lot of fun variation but the one thing I don't see ever is Hordes. I know Mournguls and big nastys are awesome. But isn't 40 skeletons also scary? It seems like everyone is making lists to counter all the big monsters in the game. But How do you deal with hordes? Where is the mass infantry clearing in AoS? I made a list that seemed slow, but the formation fixes that. The list is designed to stack saves on many guys and win out in attrition and offense. The extra 4" move makes the list move fast. My worry is the characters will be left behind or that I don't have enough +6 from the Wight bubble and maybe add another in. 1 Vampire Lord 140pts 1 Necromancer 120pts 1 wraith 60pts 1 wraith 60pts 1 Banshee 80pts 1 Wight King with banner 120pts 40 Skeletons Spears/Shields 320pts 40 Skeletons Spears/Shields 320pts 40 Skeletons Spears/Shields 320pts 10 Grave Guard shields 160pts 10 Black Knights 240pts Legion of Death Warscroll Battalion 60pts 2000pts on the nose 146 models 6+ from the Wight standard Shield from the Vampire Dance Macaab from the Necomancer 3 characters on top of that to keep my 5+ death save bubble alive +1 to rolls for bringing back models Cursed book for -1 to hit for more attrition The list is designed for attrition. But picking out the Wight, Vamp, and Necro will hurt the list a lot. Is a list like this viable? I mean it worked on a smaller scale in 1000pts. Between the numbers and stacked saves it seems really really solid. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hordes are great - you will win plenty of games with this if you can get people into position. The problem with it is that it can be a very boring game - you need to get fast at rolling saves and understanding what they mean because otherwise your opponent is just going to sit there watching you scratch your head and roll dice. Also you're going to be painting 120 skeletons. Don't get me wrong I love hordes and run something similar (40 skels, 20 skels, 20 skels, 10 gg, 5 black knights, 5 black knights, legion of death) but it can become a bit dull to play. Especially if you are playing something like flesh eater courts where it's just a grind fest (and not in a sexy way). But seriously, yeah, it's competitive. I'd be tempted to eek out a few skeletons and drop a wraith to get your vampire lord onto a zombie dragon or abyssal terror, if nothing else just to give him some survivability (and to catapult units up the board in the case of the abyssal terror). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwanger23 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 I plan on constructing movement trays for quick movement in open areas. Also, I have 108 easy to read bone dice with black pips so it is easy for both myself and my opponent to read the dice. I'm also fast at calculating attacks and doing the basic math. I own soulblight and plan on collecting the rest of the faction as well. This is just a project I'm working on. If I could find the points, I'd put in a coven throne because I love that model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 12 hours ago, Kuwanger23 said: 3 characters on top of that to keep my 5+ death save bubble alive Its only a 5+ from the general, so 6+ from all other heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 The above is in the General's Handbook FAQ. Hordes are good, I personally love 'em, but you can't really run a list around them. There's plenty of models capable of inflicting grievous damage, a Spirit of Durthu can chuck out 18 Wounds, and once Battleshock starts hitting that D6 regen a turn is just urination in the precipitation. You'll also have the problem that nothing has meaningful Rend or the ability to deal Mortal Wounds, which is a problem when you rock up against 2+ Saves, especially nasty stuff like a buffed Stardrake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwanger23 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 That faq is horrid for my strategy. That makes a huge difference. As for the lack of rend, doesn't having 60-320 attacks make up for it? Making a model with a 2+ save make that save 30 times is pretty solid. But with the information on that faq I may chance a few things up. But I definitely wanna try it out to see how it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Kuwanger23 said: As for the lack of rend, doesn't having 60-320 attacks make up for it? Making a model with a 2+ save make that save 30 times is pretty solid. Statistically about 5 Wounds, which won't kill much. You will also struggle to actually get that many attacks on a single target. Trust me as someone who tried. Not to mention units that reduce your to Hit rolls, can heal, or worse, can re-roll 1s on top of a 2+ Save. A common combo is Stardrake plus Buffy McLanternStormcast. 2+ Save, re-rolling 1s, any 6s heal a Wound. I once threw 40 Skeletons with Spears buffed to 2+ to Hit, 3+ to Wound, 3 attacks each, extra attacks on a 3+ to Hit. They all got in and slapped such a Stardrake... It healed three Wounds and was back up to full health. It then destroyed the unit and the rest fled in Battleshock until it was a useless wisp. In that scenario I held the objectives hard through weight of numbers, but really wished I'd brought something like Spirit Hosts to crack that hard target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 5 hours ago, Kuwanger23 said: As for the lack of rend, doesn't having 60-320 attacks make up for it? Making a model with a 2+ save make that save 30 times is pretty solid. 55 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said: You will also struggle to actually get that many attacks on a single target. Trust me as someone who tried. This is the main issue with hordes - on paper the number of attacks sounds humongous - In reality you will never be attacking with all 40 skeletons in any combat phase and certainly not on the same unit. In my opinion hordes are about tanking wounds and board control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwanger23 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Not all 40 but 25-30ish. I have only played one game using 2 40 man skelly units. Because their bases are less than 1 inch, if they are base to base you can attack in three ranks. But I can see how fighting against super tanky heavies could be a problem in the long run. I am going to try it out with a coven throne in place of the vampire lord and pull out 10 skellys for the points. That will be one of my horde lists. The other will be zombie madness. After that, I swear I will play normal things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid_Nine Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hordes can be really fun to play, especially with skeletons. you get a skeleton of attacks until you get knocked down to 10, so even if you have say, 8 guys in combat that is still 16 attacks you could give out. if your tricky you could potentially get an extra rank in to help with it too, adding even more attacks even with swords (remember 1" range) It also helps to have someone buff the wound rolls. someone like manfredd who lets you re-roll ones of both hitting and wounding is great, and can help you get just a few more punches on the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 11 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said: The above is in the General's Handbook FAQ. Hordes are good, I personally love 'em, but you can't really run a list around them. There's plenty of models capable of inflicting grievous damage, a Spirit of Durthu can chuck out 18 Wounds, and once Battleshock starts hitting that D6 regen a turn is just urination in the precipitation. You'll also have the problem that nothing has meaningful Rend or the ability to deal Mortal Wounds, which is a problem when you rock up against 2+ Saves, especially nasty stuff like a buffed Stardrake. Spirit of D is one thing.... but my sylvaneth with Drycha with squirmlings nearly hardcounters hordes by herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ26 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Careful when facing tzeencht aswell, I had a guant summoner summon a balewind vortex so he had a 36 inch range with a spell that does 1 mortal wound for every model in unit on a 3+. Wiped 2/3 of a 30 man squad and finished it off with some more spells and battleshock, obviously Ruler will help mitigate that but it is one nasty spell. I'm starting to hate the balewind vortex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk85 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 14 hours ago, Kuwanger23 said: I plan on constructing movement trays for quick movement in open areas. Also, I have 108 easy to read bone dice with black pips so it is easy for both myself and my opponent to read the dice. I'm also fast at calculating attacks and doing the basic math. Yep, you will need them. I dont know if you intend to take this list to events, but if you do, practise moving this amount of models around to the clock. It only takes one slow opponent who scores high early on to ruin your event. If you do encounter a 2+ re-roll save hero/monster, chances are there is only one. Use one unit of skellies as a tar pit, when they are on the verge of collapse, throw in another. The other advantage of big units is that if you can surround monsters, and they cannot fly, you stop them being able to retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwanger23 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 The list worked in 1000pts. But it was against a newer player. Def getting a coven throne to extend that 10" 5+ bubble. I am already pretty quick. The two movement phases is the trick. As long as there isn't crazy terrain everywhere that movement trays cannot move on I should be fine to save time there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ26 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Also remember that the 5+ only is within 10"of your general, not your other heroes. Your other heroes only provide a 10" 6+ bubble. @Kuwanger23 I'd also be interested to see your movement trays, I am also lugging around 40 skellies and 60 zombies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwanger23 Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Yeah, that unfortunate fact was brought to my attention earlier in this thread. Hence the Coven throne for a bigger general bubble an excuse to use my fav model. My movement trays are simple. If I don't use plastic stock I use the GW movement trays that come gridded and I cut them to fit. But I am sure they don't make those anymore now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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