Terrain in age of Sigmar

[Kuwanger23]

I asked this in the rules section but realized it's more of a discussion topic.  Plus I want to make site my group is playing with the terrain properly. 

So as far add I can tell a unit gets +1 to it's save against tabbed attacks if the entire unit is within the terrain feature.  

So almost never for infantry but often for single models.  

Is there anything else about terrain that effects the game other than blocking los?

Unless it had already been changed, I think maybe the bonus to your save should work like every other aoe buff in the game that effects models in the area.  For example, the standard from my wight king gives a 6+ save to models in the area.  So I can take saves on these models first if I choose rather than models not in the aoe.

[TerrorPenguin]

This post is formatted really weirdly on my phone, so I hope I've got the question right!

As well as blocking LOS and providing cover, terrain can also have other properties. On page two of the four page rules there is a table on which you can roll for any or all of the terrain on the table which gives it different effects throughout the battle.

Some individual terrain also has its own warscroll, again which you can choose to use or not. These have individual effects depending on the warscroll

[BaldoBeardo]

I think it's more suited to the rules forum, but still;
Your solution wouldn't work because saves occur before damage allocation; you don't pick which models are making a saving throw.

Entire unit must be on or in a terrain feature to gain +1 to save roll.
Terrain blocks LoS, but the two aren't linked - so even a completely exposed model can gain +1 cover save, while an obscured model might not.
Hills / cliffs are considered part of the battlefield, not terrain (FAQ).
Hedges / linear obstacles have their own rules for providing cover detailed on the scenery warscrolls.

Bear in mind, all of the above are strict rule application.
If your group decide they think elements of it need changing, change them.
(One I have seen for example is that if the only models that can be targeted in a unit are in cover, whole unit counts as having it).

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[KHHaunts]

As above terrain can do all sorts of things if you roll for the rules or use the relevant warscroll.

It can be difficult for infantry ill grant you depending on the scenary type. But something shaped like the Wyldwoods would be fairly easy to get your unit into due to the flat base of the model but its certainly not impossible for other if your careful with your placement.

One thing i do that isent officially stated is i sometimes use a top down view directly above the scenary piece to judge when a unit is "in" the terrain feature. I use this for thingls like ruins that dont have a base (So like 4 walls but a hollow interior we often say that if all units are within the boundaries of the model not always on the model then they get the bonus.

 

The warscrolls i most commonly use are the ones that allow garrisoning. So you occupy the building and gain bonus's but the building becomes your units model until you leave it.

The other one i use as mentioned above is the walls and fences. this allows units on the same side of a wall (within 3") to gain a cover save against attacks where the wall intersects.

[Kuwanger23]

If saves occur before damage allocation then how come a wight kings standard doesn't with that way?

 

His aura of 9-18" states models not units.  So if an entire unit isn't in his aura wouldn't you have to make saves based on the amount of models in the aura if you wanted to take the 6+?

 

Unless, the people discussing his buff were incorrect in assuming you can take those saves if the entire hurt isn't in.

[TerrorPenguin]

2 minutes ago, Kuwanger23 said:

If saves occur before damage allocation then how come a wight kings standard doesn't with that way?

 

His aura of 9-18" states models not units.  So if an entire unit isn't in his aura wouldn't you have to make saves based on the amount of models in the aura if you wanted to take the 6+?

Yes, in theory. If you are daisy chaining 40 skeletons across the board, your opponent would think it rightly unfair that your wight king can sit at the back of the board and give everyone another 6 up save when the skeletons are engaged on the other side of the board.

You would be better removing models within the wight kings aura and then making the save for them before removing. 

However, if you are both playing sensibly (i.e. your unit is arranged in a rough block, most of the wight kings aura overlaps the unit) I would allow you just to make the saves. But talk to your opponent beforehand.

[Kuwanger23]

Double post

[Kuwanger23]

I guess what I'm trying to say is, could terrain saves be treated the same way as that aura?

 

Also, if terrain doesn't slow units down in this game, is the bonus of flying only to get around blocking terrain?  

[Gaz Taylor]

Just tweaked the formatting of your post @Kuwanger23

12 minutes ago, Kuwanger23 said:

Also, if terrain doesn't slow units down in this game, is the bonus of flying only to get around blocking terrain?  

Or blocking models such as to get into a better position or to charge another model behind the blocking unit  

[TerrorPenguin]

I believe terrain does slow units, you need to go up and down it - so if it is a 1" wall it would take up 2" of movement - although I could be wrong on that one.

But your flat woods won't slow units no.

[rokapoke]

41 minutes ago, Kuwanger23 said:

If saves occur before damage allocation then how come a wight kings standard doesn't with that way?

Simple. The Infernal Standard does not give the unit a save. If you roll a 6, you avoid death. It is totally different from a 6+ save, and takes place when a model is slain instead of where you would perform a save roll. 

[Gaz Taylor]

17 minutes ago, TerrorPenguin said:

I believe terrain does slow units, you need to go up and down it - so if it is a 1" wall it would take up 2" of movement - although I could be wrong on that one.

But your flat woods won't slow units no.

Doh! Yes of course but I think most of the terrain I play on is flat  

[BaldoBeardo]

If saves occur before damage allocation then how come a wight kings standard doesn't with that way?
 
His aura of 9-18" states models not units.  So if an entire unit isn't in his aura wouldn't you have to make saves based on the amount of models in the aura if you wanted to take the 6+?
 
Unless, the people discussing his buff were incorrect in assuming you can take those saves if the entire hurt isn't in.

The Wight King's ability isn't a "save". It's better thought of as an "avoid damage roll".
Within the layout of the rules attacks, to hit rolls, to wound rolls and saving throws are made by *units* against *units*, not specific models within those units.
(Obviously this is affected in part by individual model's line of sight, armament, etc., but the unit is the active element).
Once all saves (the stat on the profile) are made, damage is calculated and added to the damage pool.
Once the attacking unit has resolved all attacks, damage from the pool is then *inflicted* on individual models within the unit.
This is where the Wight King's ability comes in.
You inflict a wound on a model within 9" of the infernal standard. Is it slain? If no, inflict another one on the same model.
If it is slain, Infernal Standard kicks in and you roll to see if it gets back up.

Off topic a bit there, but important to understand the overall stucture - saving throws are made by *units*, not *models*. Even if the unit is a single model.
That's why the all-or-nothing standard applies to cover saves.

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[AkumaKaze]

4 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Doh! Yes of course but I think most of the terrain I play on is flat  

Maybe it is just me (I have played LOTS of skirmish games) but I love having really cool looking terrain and lots of variety on a table.  

[Soulsmith]

25 minutes ago, AkumaKaze said:

Maybe it is just me (I have played LOTS of skirmish games) but I love having really cool looking terrain and lots of variety on a table.  

It makes the game way more fun. Not to mention the tactical factor. Blocking line of sight, giving extra floors to give better lines of sight for ranged units/wizards, active terrain rules.

[AkumaKaze]

1 minute ago, Soulsmith said:

It makes the game way more fun. Not to mention the tactical factor. Blocking line of sight, giving extra floors to give better lines of sight for ranged units/wizards, active terrain rules.

Yes.  this exactly.

[Gaz Taylor]

2 hours ago, AkumaKaze said:

Maybe it is just me (I have played LOTS of skirmish games) but I love having really cool looking terrain and lots of variety on a table.  

You're right but most of my terrain is flat or in that old mindset of dangerous terrain so you tend to ignore it. I need to get some more LOS blocking stuff but not gotten round to it  

[AkumaKaze]

2 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

You're right but most of my terrain is flat or in that old mindset of dangerous terrain so you tend to ignore it. I need to get some more LOS blocking stuff but not gotten round to it  

Rocks.  Lots and lots of rocks!

[Gaz Taylor]

Just now, AkumaKaze said:

Rocks.  Lots and lots of rocks!

You need big rocks when you have Stonehorns and all my rocks are small  

[AkumaKaze]

1 minute ago, Gaz Taylor said:

You need big rocks when you have Stonehorns and all my rocks are small  

I should really do a tutorial for people to show them how to knock out a lot of rocky terrain in as little as 2 hours.  You could cover roughly 25% of the board with it.

[MasterM]

43 minutes ago, AkumaKaze said:

I should really do a tutorial for people to show them how to knock out a lot of rocky terrain in as little as 2 hours.  You could cover roughly 25% of the board with it.

Please do! I'm working on my dedicated gaming table and want to get into creating my own terrain.

[Kuwanger23]

Pink insulation foam and a hot knife or foam cutter.  My store is actually prepping a bunch for a convention we are running events for in two weeks.  I can post pics later.  

 

Also, MasterM I'm sure we've workedin together in the 80s.

[Arkiham]

Walls are great for units, as it's within 3" on the same side.

[AkumaKaze]

1 hour ago, MasterM said:

Please do! I'm working on my dedicated gaming table and want to get into creating my own terrain.

Will do.  I will more than likely make a youtube video of it and post it here when done.  

[Kuwanger23]

Great input and discussions guys! I appreciate it.  

how many local tournaments, convention tournaments ect use the special rules for terrain and how many just play it as is without any special rules?  What do you guys prefer?  What does your store do?