CoffeeGrunt Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Makes sense I guess, though I personally just put the Banner in the middle in your first example. You're unlikely to take casualties from the middle as it'd break coherency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said: Makes sense I guess, though I personally just put the Banner in the middle in your first example. You're unlikely to take casualties from the middle as it'd break coherency. That works to an extent, but once you've lost half the models in your unit you can end up back in the same situation, even if you've brought most of them back in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 There are very few attacks that target individual models within units though the giant and the Stardrake can but I'm not sure what else does. Deadly terrain will kill individuals. The situation @Squirrelmaster describes (with the 40 skellies) is possible but fairly easy to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 26 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said: The situation @Squirrelmaster describes (with the 40 skellies) is possible but fairly easy to avoid. But can you avoid it without missing out on the benefits of conga-lines and tactical casualty removal? Heck, even in a rectangular block, sometimes it's helpful to be able to remove casualties from the front, to put yourself out of range (whether that's out of 3", or out of missile range). Sometime removal from the back is more helpful. The more banners you have, the more freedom you have to remove casualties wherever you want. It's just that usually, after 2 or 3 banners, the benefits become negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 57 minutes ago, Squirrelmaster said: But can you avoid it without missing out on the benefits of conga-lines and tactical casualty removal? Heck, even in a rectangular block, sometimes it's helpful to be able to remove casualties from the front, to put yourself out of range (whether that's out of 3", or out of missile range). Sometime removal from the back is more helpful. The more banners you have, the more freedom you have to remove casualties wherever you want. It's just that usually, after 2 or 3 banners, the benefits become negligible. Yes but in all honesty it doesn't really matter having 2 or 3 banners in a unit of 40 is hardly over the top. Let's face it in really big units it makes look like you've got a real horde going on and looks rather nice as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I modelled my Guardsman platoons with a flag per blob even though there's no rules for it, because I thought it looked cool. Banners in AoS are the same deal for me personally. I personally run my Skellies in a block as well, as they just evaporate if they try and pull too much aggro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 21 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said: I don't really see the benefits of doing so. At least, as a Death player, you allocate wonds to models of your choosing 99% of the time, so the Banner Bearer is simply the last model to die, always. As far as Banners, etc in general, I just consider them to be innate abilities of the unit rather than a bonus, at least until I kill the Banners, which as previously mentioned die last and the unit dies with them, so... Was just reading through and thinking exactly the same. Appreciate some people conga-line, but that and having a dozen banners in a unit of 20 both look equally daft to my eyes. I nearly always run the banner/musician in the middle of a blob, not far from the champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 @CoffeeGrunt @RuneBrush Ive run out of likes because they seem to be like rocking horse poo, so if I forget to comeback when they reset please assume I've given you one (ooh matron) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 There's a powerful metagame for Bestigor to exploit if the world at large can be convinced running entire units of standard bearers is the done thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhellion Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 On 12/31/2016 at 7:02 AM, Ollie Grimwood said: Rules wise you can take as many as you like. However I was wondering how people were viewing this on a more "social contract" sort of way. Some units have a choice of banners so there is a direct game advantage is taking all the available choices for a unit beyond added durability multiples will give you. Having two banners would look cool in a regimental & Queens colour sort of way and a full regimental band might be a nice modelling project. This would only look good in a large unit though. So what sort of ratios would people be happy with? Are you a one banner one drum hobbyist? I guess for me it's more a case of "does it look right?" And there are ways of doing it well in a modelled and themed manner and just sticking flags on models in an unthemactic way. Tournament packs I am playing in this year (for at least the first 3 months) state 1 command type per unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rhellion said: Tournament packs I am playing in this year (for at least the first 3 months) state 1 command type per unit. I would not be at all surprised to see this form part of the Matched Play rules in the next General's Handbook. Like an increasing amount of topics on these forums though, this is something that gets raved about (and indeed raged about!) online, but in reality is rarely (I daresay never) an issue as thankfully people tend to be much more reasonable in real life!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 26 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: I would not be at all surprised to see this form part of the Matched Play rules in the next General's Handbook. Like an increasing amount of topics on these forums though, this is something that gets raved about (and indeed raged about!) online, but in reality is rarely (I daresay never) an issue as thankfully people tend to be much more reasonable in real life!! It was just something that popped on Facehammer (quite amusingly as Russ told the other presenters off for joking about it) and it seemed like something worth a chat. Also as I'm starting to rock up to organised events for the first time it's quite nice to judge the etiquette on these things. Not that I was considering full units of banners or anything but their are a couple units I own that have multiple banner options. My sense of humour can sometime by misconstrued as it is so I don't want to be winding people up with my army. ? Though everyone I've met so far has been entirely an entirely pleasant chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Yeh not knocking you @Ollie Grimwood...it is a bit of an interesting one tbh as I'll admit my opinion is clouded due to preconceptions from WFB (ie, command groups), which we need to let go of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: Yeh not knocking you @Ollie Grimwood...it is a bit of an interesting one tbh as I'll admit my opinion is clouded due to preconceptions from WFB (ie, command groups), which we need to let go of course. No problem, and I'd agree it isn't worth getting too excited about. (Also I'm enjoying the new show format ??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Just now, Ollie Grimwood said: No problem, and I'd agree it isn't worth getting too excited about. (Also I'm enjoying the new show format ??) I guess I'd surmise by saying that if you want to take additional command models to an event, check with the TO beforehand. Whilst it's not disallowed by the rules, it does remain one of those grey areas that I expect we will see tightened up a bit (by TOs, if not GW). Whilst I don't see an issue with a unit of 40 Plague Monks taking one of each standard bearer option, I can't say I'm keen on a unit of Blood Knight standard bearers (or whatever). The problem is that if you want to draw the line it can be tricky to know where to do so, which would make a blanket decision (perhaps akin to WFB command groups) an easy option I guess. Glad you're enjoying the show. Thanks for listening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 8 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said: Whilst I don't see an issue with a unit of 40 Plague Monks taking one of each standard bearer option, I can't say I'm keen on a unit of Blood Knight standard bearers (or whatever). The problem is that if you want to draw the line it can be tricky to know where to do so, which would make a blanket decision (perhaps akin to WFB command groups) an easy option I guess. Out of interest, can you put into words what it is about a unit of Blood Knight banners that would bother you? They still only get one model back per round, no matter how many banners they have. The only real advantage for a small unit like that is being able to recover from going down to the last model. 19 hours ago, Double Misfire said: There's a powerful metagame for Bestigor to exploit if the world at large can be convinced running entire units of standard bearers is the done thing. It's still only +1 to hit no matter how many banners are in the unit, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 11 hours ago, Squirrelmaster said: Out of interest, can you put into words what it is about a unit of Blood Knight banners that would bother you? They still only get one model back per round, no matter how many banners they have. The only real advantage for a small unit like that is being able to recover from going down to the last model. Wouldn't have said there was any advantage for more than one banner in these units anymore. Providing you don't remove the banner model you can return any slain model back to the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 12 hours ago, Squirrelmaster said: Out of interest, can you put into words what it is about a unit of Blood Knight banners that would bother you? They still only get one model back per round, no matter how many banners they have. The only real advantage for a small unit like that is being able to recover from going down to the last model. It's still only +1 to hit no matter how many banners are in the unit, isn't it? Indeed I can put it into words; it would look rubbish! The only exception I guess would be if they all had Samurai style sashimono back banners. Obviously this is 100% down to my personal taste here and has zero implications to anyone else! I appreciate aesthetics isn't the strongest argument and won't matter for everyone, nor should it. As mentioned above, the rules as they stand certainly allow for multiples. I am personally of the opinion that this may end up with a little note in matched play at some point. Of course, matched play is just one way to play so again still won't matter to everyone if indeed it ever did come to fruition! I've run 3 AoS Tournaments now, with a 4th coming up in March. Interestingly this is never something I've had to make a ruling on though. Out of interest, do people roll separately for banners etc for Deadly terrain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Damage is applied to the squad, and the squad takes casualties as far as I understand it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 1 hour ago, CoffeeGrunt said: Damage is applied to the squad, and the squad takes casualties as far as I understand it? No, by RAW wounds must be allocated to specific models. The controlling player usually decides which model, but if a model is already been wounded it has to go on that model first. That means once you're down to just the banner bearer and he/she/it starts taking wounds, all future wounds must go on that model until it's dead, even if you've brought back other models in the meantime, even if you've healed that model in the meantime, just because a wound was allocated to it at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, Squirrelmaster said: No, by RAW wounds must be allocated to specific models. The controlling player usually decides which model, but if a model is already been wounded it has to go on that model first. That means once you're down to just the banner bearer and he/she/it starts taking wounds, all future wounds must go on that model until it's dead, even if you've brought back other models in the meantime, even if you've healed that model in the meantime, just because a wound was allocated to it at some point. But the terrain thing doesn't apply wounds, it just removes models from play. Also I don't think that's correct re: applying wounds to a healed model. It has no wounds applied to it, therefore it doesn't count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Ah, yeah, Deadly terrain says the model is slain, therefore all the normal allocation stuff is bypassed. I'd happily roll per model of it came up, but I can't remember the last time it actually has for me. Regarding healing, I'm not sure. The rule triggers when you allocate a wound to a model, it doesn't actually check whether the model is still wounded later. The rule also say that a healed wound has no effect, though, so I guess you could argue it either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapetklistret Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 The beauty of this game is to be able to pretty much customize and play with whatever you want, following the warscroll If someone want to bring a whole unit of standard bearers and musicians im fine with it! However personally I would rather play with one of each! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokapoke Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 49 minutes ago, Squirrelmaster said: Regarding healing, I'm not sure. The rule triggers when you allocate a wound to a model, it doesn't actually check whether the model is still wounded later. The rule also say that a healed wound has no effect, though, so I guess you could argue it either way. The FAQ answers have typically ended up on the side of the simplest interpretation of the rules. In this case, I would virtually guarantee that the official response would be that if a model has been healed it no longer has to be the next model wounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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