Infernalslayer Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 41 minutes ago, Jharen said: So am I missing something here or is GW just really not on their game... From their Community page concerning the new warscroll it says: "Khul’s Gorelord ability is upgraded to allow him to charge into combat alongside his troops." Yet I see absolutely no change to the Gorelord ability's functionality. They changed the wording of course to fit the name change, but it functions the exact same. Hardly an 'upgrade' worth mentioning... really...wow GW...wow. They really are not in their game. And 200 points seems like overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 So am I missing something here or is GW just really not on their game... From their Community page concerning the new warscroll it says:"Khul’s Gorelord ability is upgraded to allow him to charge into combat alongside his troops."Yet I see absolutely no change to the Gorelord ability's functionality. They changed the wording of course to fit the name change, but it functions the exact same. Hardly an 'upgrade' worth mentioning... really...wow GW...wow.On the bright side:You are getting "The Goretide" Battalion ability Aqyshy's Bane without the requirement of actually taking that battalion and (which gives a reroll to hit) and the pile in and attack in every Hero phase.If you weren't taking the battalion, but were taking a mighty lord of Khorne, It's not horrible. Otherwise, not quite so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Just now, TheOtherJosh said: On the bright side: You are getting "The Goretide" Battalion ability Aqyshy's Bane without the requirement of actually taking that battalion and (which gives a reroll to hit) and the pile in and attack in every Hero phase. If you weren't taking the battalion, but were taking a mighty lord of Khorne, It's not horrible. Otherwise, not quite so much. It's not horrible no, and I don't run The Goretide myself so I'll likely end up using it as some point just to try it out. The problem is that it's an ability I'm going to be paying 60 points for, an a hero that I can't give an artifact to, and which I can't make a command without losing my command trait, which is all difficult to justify. It won't work in super competitive style of game, no, but luckily my gaming group is a tad more laid back in our list making when it comes to just having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 10 hours ago, Jharen said: So am I missing something here or is GW just really not on their game... From their Community page concerning the new warscroll it says: "Khul’s Gorelord ability is upgraded to allow him to charge into combat alongside his troops." Yet I see absolutely no change to the Gorelord ability's functionality. They changed the wording of course to fit the name change, but it functions the exact same. Hardly an 'upgrade' worth mentioning... really...wow GW...wow. The only logical conclusion I can draw from this again is that the same team/people who are creating Warscrolls are not the same who are working on GH, Narrative play or Matched play, now Narrative play could still be a part of their thinking though at this moment I doubt there is much communication going on in the creative process at all. Not only have they managed to not capture this functionality, we now have a guy who's 60 points beyond a guy that is 140 points who could turn into a better variant of the current Khorgos Khul. What I heavily dislike about the design is that it forces you to have Khul the moment you want to use the Goretide. This alternate Battalion chaging design actually chokes creative options again. The same way AoS' initial release choked out all the creative options you once had for units and nameless characters. So either: A. GW actually wants us to play Named characters alone B. GW has plans to remove the whole Command Abilities and Artefacts from the game C. The one who designed this had nothing to do with BoK design and basically winged out a character without any care for matched play I strongly believe C is the cause of this effect. In the same vein I also feel Skirmish was designed in a very similar process. The time windows for AoS creations at GW are either too short or people are working on it who have nothing to do with the game design process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 It might be an internal nerf to goretide..following our discussions in the ruke section, the mighty Lord of khorne appears to gain a 8" move per hero phase, if you start stacking buffs on him you can quickly get 30 attacks of that guy alone, so this may be an intentional nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 @Arkiham I think your looking for a logical explanation that contains reason. Out of all thinks that could consider a nerf you and I both know that The Goretide isn't even in the top 10. As per the other topic, a Mighty Lord of Khorne with Mark of the Destroyer is scary as is, however it still dies like a MLoK would do. In that same vein, a Immense Power Death Dealer Bloodthirster is a scary prospect, however it still dies relatively easy. AoS is full of powerful models, most of them also tend to die quite easily. A single models with 20+ attacks at 140 is excellent but still folds to a unit of Skyfires (for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Again, a warscroll has not enough reach rulewise to change the requirements of another scroll, from another rulesource. There needs to be an FAQ, otherwise you can still play the vanilla MLoK in Goretide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Xasz said: Again, a warscroll has not enough reach rulewise to change the requirements of another scroll, from another rulesource. There needs to be an FAQ, otherwise you can still play the vanilla MLoK in Goretide. As per other topics, it actually does. The one hard rule Age of Sigmar comes with is that you have to follow Descriptions. The moment you play Chaos, Khul is an available model and you have to abide by his Description. Likewise, we cannot equip our Blood Warriors with all Goreglaives because the Description tells us we only have acces to 1 for every 10 Blood Warriors. Khuls description explicitly states that you must thake him the moment you include a Goretide Warscroll Battalion in your army. This is not optional and descriptions are enforcing how the Warscroll in question plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 @Killax Your example is questionable at best. Blood Warriors are one scroll and if you take that scroll, you have to abide by its rules. The Goretide and Khul are two different scrolls and a warscroll, without an FAQ, that overrides a battletome in which the scroll is no even a part of, is somewhat unique. That's way out of its rule hierarchy. The only instance, the first part of Khuls warscroll should trigger is when you have both, the Goretide scroll and Khul scroll, in your list. Whatever GW's intention is, as long as there is no FAQ or appropriate statement from another official source, there is no 'must'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Xasz said: @Killax Your example is questionable at best. Blood Warriors are one scroll and if you take that scroll, you have to abide by its rules. The Goretide and Khul are two different scrolls and a warscroll, without an FAQ, that overrides a battletome in which the scroll is no even a part of, is somewhat unique. That's way out of its rule hierarchy. The only instance, the first part of Khuls warscroll should trigger is when you have both, the Goretide scroll and Khul scroll, in your list. Whatever GW's intention is, as long as there is no FAQ or appropriate statement from another official source, there is no 'must'. Descriptions are descriptions. You do not check them upon inclusion, you have to abide by them wether they are in your army or not. It does not matter that The Goretide and Khul are two different Warscrolls. Khul's Warscroll refers to him being a mandatory pick the moment you include a Goretide Battalion. Likewise, Blood Warriors Warscroll refers to one Goreglaive per 10 models. The current ruling on this also allows you to check other Warscrolls, meaning that if you thake multiple units of 5, you still get one Goreglaive per 10 models and those 10 models do not have to be in the same Warscroll unit. Why? Because it states that you get 1 per 10 models, not one per 10 models in one unit. Khul states that the moment you thake a Goretide battalion you still must include him. So far we have several examples of Warscroll Descriptions being the one hard rule of the game. Why? Because it states that you must include Khul in The Goretide, not that you may include him the moment you include a Goretide battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I'm pretty sure the intention of the new scroll for Khul was not to affect the battalion but to say that in armies where you have him and have the battalion, he must be the leader of the battalion. I hopw GW will faq it/amend it soon - they really need to as the scroll is terribly written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 35 minutes ago, Carnelian said: I'm pretty sure the intention of the new scroll for Khul was not to affect the battalion but to say that in armies where you have him and have the battalion, he must be the leader of the battalion. Im pretty sure the intention of the new scroll for Khul was to affect The Goretide, as it exactly says that. It is in line with the narrative, narrative is what drives AoS more. As per previous page, for narrative play this is a non-issue, as costs are not a mayor part of it. For matched play however this is an issue, by large because the wording on the description is still a hard rule. A rule that you have to follow. A rule that now states that you have to include Khul any time you choose a Goretide battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Killax said: Im pretty sure the intention of the new scroll for Khul was to affect The Goretide, as it exactly says that. It is in line with the narrative, narrative is what drives AoS more. That's a great point! I really like the narrative that the bloodsecrator is no longer a bloodbound model! Setting the sarcasm aside, I think it's save to assume that the "new" warscrolls are just a rushed clusterfuck in between the 40k release. In their current state they cannot be taken at face value... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 That's a great point! I really like the narrative that the bloodsecrator is no longer a bloodbound model! Wow! It's like a "choose your own adventure"... but you get to choose your own warscroll instead! (I choose the BoK one ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 Hang on.... So... he fits in everything lol. As everything fits into goretide LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, Xasz said: That's a great point! I really like the narrative that the bloodsecrator is no longer a bloodbound model! Setting the sarcasm aside, I think it's save to assume that the "new" warscrolls are just a rushed clusterfuck in between the 40k release. In their current state they cannot be taken at face value... When I called them monkeys writing this I wasn't kidding. I completely agree with you that we have the typical example of someone making something that was not involved with the creation of Blades of Khorne or that of the Stormcast eternals. It doesn't matter for Narrative play and makes Matched play have Blades of Khorne lose another viable option. Khul for 200 points elsewhere is a stretch... Perhaps GW's intend after all is to specifically make the game less competitive. They are doing it quite well with this 6 minutes ago, Arkiham said: Hang on.... So... he fits in everything lol. As everything fits into goretide LOL If he isn't part of The Goretide Battalion but taken as part of any other battalion all of the other Khorne Mortal models in the battalion should also come from the Goretide. Which is wicked because the Goretide doesn't contain any models at all Yeah... This is a work of art! Jokes aside lets just all act as if Goretide battalion doesn't refer to The Goretide battalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Hang on.... So... he fits in everything lol. As everything fits into goretideListen and be joyful.The Goretide is all, and all are one The Goretide.The Goretide has risen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerthin Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 What if Khul is kind of, sort of better than we think? I mean we agree that abilities like Bloodsecrator's aura stack. Then maybe Bane of Aqshy also stacks? It would give us additional pile in during hero phase. 2 pile ins? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 58 minutes ago, Zerthin said: I mean we agree that abilities like Bloodsecrator's aura stack. This is the perfect wrong example but your words are still interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Zerthin said: I mean we agree that abilities like Bloodsecrator's aura stack. Ai ai ai caramba! I guess its time to focus on 40K where I dont have to act like I dont know The Goretide has changed as part of Korghos Khuls description? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, Killax said: I guess its time to focus on 40K where I dont have to act like I dont know The Goretide has changed as part of Korghos Khuls description? There is few things i know but i know for sure that warscrolls you dont take have no effect. Necromancers don't know the resurect skeletons spell if you don't take the warscroll. Not necessarly in your army but simply the warscroll in your wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 25 minutes ago, Killax said: I guess its time to focus on 40K Khorne berserkers seems to have a second youth right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerthin Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 minute ago, kozokus said: There is few things i know but i know for sure that warscrolls you dont take have no effect. Necromancers don't know the resurect skeletons spell if you don't take the warscroll. Not necessarly in your army but simply the warscroll in your wallet. Acually they do know summoning spell if you don't have a unit in your army. As per FAQ (Wizards category, page 5): Q: Can the summoning spells on some warscrolls be used by the appropriate caster even if none of the models from the warscroll are in my army? A: Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Indeed but in that case you have the warscroll with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, kozokus said: Indeed but in that case you have the warscroll with you If you have a phone with the app you have the warscroll. As said, we now have to play a game where we dont know he and his description excists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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