Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[decker_cky]

The distinction is needed because if you don't fit all your choices from the DoT list, you can't fit non-tzeentch allies while retaining tzeentch allegiance.

[TheOtherJosh]

In regard to the allies situation, approach it from the perspective that DoT can include any Tzeentch marked warscroll, not just the ones in the book, and it becomes much simpler.  Can anyone see the need for a distinction between Tzeentch and DoT in the app? 

 

 

Actually. Yes.

 

Going "Alliance:Tzeentch" (instead of Faction:DoT) means that you can broadly take an army that encompasses any model that can be KEYWORD: TZEENTCH ... however, you loose out on using Allies that have no ability to keyword for Tzeentch. (Because there is no "Faction:Tzeentch" ally list.) It allows taking anything "Tzeentch". (Pink Horrors and Marauders as battleline in the same Army? Yep!)

 

If you go Faction:DoT or Faction:Slaves to Darkness you can take units NOT on their main Faction lists that can not be not keyword, but they're allies. And would need to fit in the ally table. But you have access to the Allies table at the bottom. You could still use Alliance:Tzeentch ... but your battleline would have to be from the main Faction list. (Because everything else is allied, and Allies can't be battleline.)

 

It is all about theme. Alliance:Khorne has the same issue. BoK and Slaves to Darkness cause the same problem.

 

So, do you go "Alliance soup"? Or do you go Factions with Allies?

 

(Annoyingly enough Daemons of Chaos is not on the Alliance table for Faction:DoT and chaos Spawns aren't in the DoT list either)

[decker_cky]

Going faction: slaves to darkness wouldn't really be beneficial in trying to make a tzeentch army, would it? Doesn't it just ignore the lack of "slaves to darkness" for allegiance purposes? It's the same issue with everchosen armies - with the fatesworn Warband it's easy to make an everchosen army and ally in any other faction, but unless everything is tzeentch, you can't benefit from allegiance: tzeentch.

[hobgoblinclub]

3 hours ago, decker_cky said:

The distinction is needed because if you don't fit all your choices from the DoT list, you can't fit non-tzeentch allies while retaining tzeentch allegiance.

 

2 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

 

Actually. Yes.

 

Going "Alliance:Tzeentch" (instead of Faction:DoT) means that you can broadly take an army that encompasses any model that can be KEYWORD: TZEENTCH ... however, you loose out on using Allies that have no ability to keyword for Tzeentch. (Because there is no "Faction:Tzeentch" ally list.) It allows taking anything "Tzeentch". (Pink Horrors and Marauders as battleline in the same Army? Yep!)

 

If you go Faction:DoT or Faction:Slaves to Darkness you can take units NOT on their main Faction lists that can not be not keyword, but they're allies. And would need to fit in the ally table. But you have access to the Allies table at the bottom. You could still use Alliance:Tzeentch ... but your battleline would have to be from the main Faction list. (Because everything else is allied, and Allies can't be battleline.)

 

It is all about theme. Alliance:Khorne has the same issue. BoK and Slaves to Darkness cause the same problem.

 

So, do you go "Alliance soup"? Or do you go Factions with Allies?

 

(Annoyingly enough Daemons of Chaos is not on the Alliance table for Faction:DoT and chaos Spawns aren't in the DoT list either)

Going DoT allegiance is going Tzeentch allegiance. They're one and the same. You can take any Tzeentch unit (Archaon, Slaves to Darkness, whatever) and retain DoT allegiance, therefore allowing you the DoT allies. There are no Tzeentch warscrolls you can pick which wouldn't qualify as a DoT army. It's not a case of DoT is just the stuff in the book. DoT is Tzeentch. 

And you are free to pick horrors and marauders in a DoT army. Lots of people do. 

The fact that there's still DoT and Tzeentch left as options in the app is just something that needs to be tidied up. Can't think if I've missed anything... 

[decker_cky]

If you take all your units from the "Disciples of Tzeentch" faction, you can take non-tzeentch units from the available allies while maintaining Tzeentch allegiance. If you mix "Slaves to darkness" faction units and "Disciples of Tzeentch" faction units (beyond the amount allowed as allies), then you can't add any allies. However, the mixed army can still be tzeentch allegiance if everything is keyword tzeentch.

[TheOtherJosh]

Going DoT allegiance is going Tzeentch allegiance. They're one and the same. You can take any Tzeentch unit (Archaon, Slaves to Darkness, whatever) and retain DoT allegiance, therefore allowing you the DoT allies. There are no Tzeentch warscrolls you can pick which wouldn't qualify as a DoT army. It's not a case of DoT is just the stuff in the book. DoT is Tzeentch. 
And you are free to pick horrors and marauders in a DoT army. Lots of people do. 
The fact that there's still DoT and Tzeentch left as options in the app is just something that needs to be tidied up. Can't think if I've missed anything... 

You're having the issue with Faction vs Allegiance.

Most factions and their allegiance names are identical, the ones for Khorne and Tzeentch are not.

There is no "Allegiance:Disciples of Tzeentch" there is "Allegiance:Tzeentch"

There is no Faction:Tzeentch, there is a Faction:Diciples of Tzeentch.

To use "Allegiance:Tzeentch" you only have to have the Tzeentch keyword on all of the units.

The change to Factions and the addition of Ally tables put a side spin on list creation.

IF you can build your entire list as Grand Alliance Chaos:Tzeentch then you can build the same way as pre-GHB 2017.

If you want to use the Ally tables, and have non-Tzeentch keyword units, and still keep the Allegiance:Tzeentch then one has to either have a Faction:Diciples of Tzeentch or Faction:Slaves to Darkness (all with Mark of Tzeentch). Building within Factions one only uses the Faction creation tables. Units that aren't on the base Faction tables have to be brought in as Allies.

Marauders aren't on the base Faction:DoT table. So, they're not valid DoT battleline as they're an Ally. And Allies can't be battleline.

[hobgoblinclub]

4 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

 

You're having the issue with Faction vs Allegiance.

Most factions and their allegiance names are identical, the ones for Khorne and Tzeentch are not.

There is no "Allegiance:Disciples of Tzeentch" there is "Allegiance:Tzeentch"

There is no Faction:Tzeentch, there is a Faction:Diciples of Tzeentch.

To use "Allegiance:Tzeentch" you only have to have the Tzeentch keyword on all of the units.

The change to Factions and the addition of Ally tables put a side spin on list creation.

IF you can build your entire list as Grand Alliance Chaos:Tzeentch then you can build the same way as pre-GHB 2017.

If you want to use the Ally tables, and have non-Tzeentch keyword units, and still keep the Allegiance:Tzeentch then one has to either have a Faction:Diciples of Tzeentch or Faction:Slaves to Darkness (all with Mark of Tzeentch). Building within Factions one only uses the Faction creation tables. Units that aren't on the base Faction tables have to be brought in as Allies.

Marauders aren't on the base Faction:DoT table. So, they're not valid DoT battleline as they're an Ally. And Allies can't be battleline.

 

 

I think you're reading too much into the way they've worded it. Allegiance Tzeentch and the faction DoT are the same. Any Tzeentch unit (including Tzeentch Marauders) is valid in a DoT faction / allegiance. Marauders are battleline in a DoT army because DoT is Tzeentch.

If I built an entire army of Slaves to Darkness, took nothing from the DoT book but marked them all Tzeentch, I would have a DoT army. I would have DoT allegiance and be able to use destiny dice and the two spell lores.

Granted, it's an odd situation that I could build a list which would allow me to pick three allegiances (Tzeentch, Slaves to Darkness, or Chaos) but that's how it works. 

For example, if/when the new Nurgle battletome appears - call it Children of Nurgle -  I'll be able to take any Nurgle marked stuff and still claim CoN allegiance. That includes all of the Nurgle marked stuff that won't be in the book. That inclusive skaven! I could build an army of mostly Pestilens and use the new CoN Cycle of Corruption and whatever else they get. 

Warhammer TV made a big thing of the Tzeentch book when it came out. The allegiance is much wider than any previous tome. It's a trend that's continued with Blades of Khorne. 

In short, a Tzeentch marked unit is a disciple of Tzeentch. 

[Ratso]

8 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

I think you're reading too much into the way they've worded it. Allegiance Tzeentch and the faction DoT are the same. Any Tzeentch unit (including Tzeentch Marauders) is valid in a DoT faction / allegiance. Marauders are battleline in a DoT army because DoT is Tzeentch.

If I built an entire army of Slaves to Darkness, took nothing from the DoT book but marked them all Tzeentch, I would have a DoT army. I would have DoT allegiance and be able to use destiny dice and the two spell lores.

Granted, it's an odd situation that I could build a list which would allow me to pick three allegiances (Tzeentch, Slaves to Darkness, or Chaos) but that's how it works. 

For example, if/when the new Nurgle battletome appears - call it Children of Nurgle -  I'll be able to take any Nurgle marked stuff and still claim CoN allegiance. That includes all of the Nurgle marked stuff that won't be in the book. That inclusive skaven! I could build an army of mostly Pestilens and use the new CoN Cycle of Corruption and whatever else they get. 

Warhammer TV made a big thing of the Tzeentch book when it came out. The allegiance is much wider than any previous tome. It's a trend that's continued with Blades of Khorne. 

In short, a Tzeentch marked unit is a disciple of Tzeentch. 

Well said .... Agreed!!!

[decker_cky]

I feel like we need some tangible examples here.

 

List 1: 

Tzaangor shaman (160)

14 units of 10 acolytes (1400)

Allies:

2 Shaggoths (320)

5 Centigors (80)

Total: 1960

This list is eligible to use allegiance tzeentch due to allies  - Thunderscorn and Monsters of chaos are allies to Disciples of Tzeentch, and fit within the 400 available points. 

 

List 2: 

Tzaangor shaman (160)

14 units of 10 acolytes (1400)

7 units of 10 marauders of tzeentch (420 pts)

Total: 1980

This list is eligible to use allegiance tzeentch, all units have the tzeentch keyword.  

 

List 3: 
 

Tzaangor shaman (160)

10 units of 10 acolytes (1000)

7 units of 10 marauders of tzeentch (420 pts)

2 Shaggoths (320)

5 Centigors (80)

Total: 1980

This list is NOT eligible to use allegiance tzeentch.  Not all units have  tzeentch keyword, and the non-disciples of tzeentch do not all fit in the 400 pt allies allowance (marauders are not part of the disciples of tzeentch list, so need to be taken in the allies points to allow other units to benefit from the allied exception to allegiance keywords).  

[hobgoblinclub]

9 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

I feel like we need some tangible examples here.

 

List 1: 

Tzaangor shaman (160)

14 units of 10 acolytes (1400)

Allies:

2 Shaggoths (320)

5 Centigors (80)

Total: 1960

This list is eligible to use allegiance tzeentch due to allies  - Thunderscorn and Monsters of chaos are allies to Disciples of Tzeentch, and fit within the 400 available points. 

 

List 2: 

Tzaangor shaman (160)

14 units of 10 acolytes (1400)

7 units of 10 marauders of tzeentch (420 pts)

Total: 1980

This list is eligible to use allegiance tzeentch, all units have the tzeentch keyword.  

 

List 3: 
 

Tzaangor shaman (160)

10 units of 10 acolytes (1000)

7 units of 10 marauders of tzeentch (420 pts)

2 Shaggoths (320)

5 Centigors (80)

Total: 1980

This list is NOT eligible to use allegiance tzeentch.  Not all units have  tzeentch keyword, and the non-disciples of tzeentch do not all fit in the 400 pt allies allowance (marauders are not part of the disciples of tzeentch list, so need to be taken in the allies points to allow other units to benefit from the allied exception to allegiance keywords).  

I was with you until your third list. Marauders are part of the Disciples of Tzeentch list. All Tzeentch units are counted as being Disciples of Tzeentch. Sorry, I'm a bit confused why you've stated List 2 is all Tzeentch but in list 3 the Marauders have to be taken as allies. 

In reality, all of your lists are all DoT because the Shaggoths and the Centigors fit in your 400 points allies slot.

[decker_cky]

Notice how daemons of nurgle and rotbringers both only care about keyword nurgle? Notice how daemons get no allies but rotbringers get a bunch, including daemons of nurgle? The faction groups are not the same as allegiances. 

Just like rotbringers can't bring 400 pts of non-nurgle allies in addition to some nurgle daemons, disciples of tzeentch can't bring 400 pts of non-tzeentch allies in addition to tzeentch slaves to darkness units.

Edit: and a more interesting example - you can take a nurgle allegiance army mixing from nurgle rotbringers, daemons of nurgle, Slaves to darkness marked nurgle, and clan pestilens units, but the only way to take non-nurgle units as allies it to limit the 'Core' units to nurgle rotbringers faction.

 

When using nurgles rotbringers faction, there's no way to take clan pestilens faction stuff despite the fact that pestilens all includes the nurgle keyword.

[Malakithe]

Ok now...as per the battletome....does every unit in your army have keyword Tzeentch? It does? Congratz...you have Tzeentch allegiance and therefore can use everything that comes with that. Moving on to the next topic...

Exalted Greater Daemon of Tzeentch...worth it? Yes or no...discuss

[decker_cky]

4 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Ok now...as per the battletome....does every unit in your army have keyword Tzeentch? It does? Congratz...you have Tzeentch allegiance and therefore can use everything that comes with that. Moving on to the next topic...

Exalted Greater Daemon of Tzeentch...worth it? Yes or no...discuss

This only matters when trying to retain tzeentch allegiance while taking units that don't have the keyword (ie, allies). 

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, decker_cky said:

This only matters when trying to retain tzeentch allegiance while taking units that don't have the keyword (ie, allies). 

I understand that. Its pretty black and white. The Tzeentch book was the first of its kind and changed how it all works. If all units have the keyword you get the allegiance. Just like the other god keywords. It doesnt matter what the unit is as long as it has the keyword. 

Now with GH2017 they added in allies. Again black and white. Fairly straight forward. You can take allies without breaking allegiance as long as you dont go over the specified points limits. 

I dont even know what can ally with Tzeentch, not that it matters. The only decent stuff that would be added to a Tzeentch list can take the keywords anyway.

[Okonomiyakimarine]

i am new to AoS,so i cannot contribute to the recent discussion here.  yet i’d really appreciate your feedback for the following idea:

the only models I have so far is (old) pink horrors, the (old) changeling, a (very old) herald of tzeentch and the ST gaunt summoner with familiars – i really like the model, they are fun to paint so i want to use them. 

looking at all the new stuff: Shaman with Skyfires appears to be good for softening up stuff in the first round whatever is in reach and to fly around and snipe: is it good to have them in squads of three or better to combine as a group of nine?

I guess I should also pick up a pack of blue and brimstone hours for replenish/split and tzaangors for blocking/melee - maybe together with the Ogroid, is it worth it? Or is there anything else i should use instead for better synergies?

many thx in advance!

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Gaunt Summoner (120)
- General
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
The Changeling (140)
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change 

Battleline
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)

Units
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)

Total: 1990/2000

[Kakoshka]

On 28/08/2017 at 8:51 PM, Hightime said:

How are competitive players dealing with stormcast cheese.

ie. the 12 Longstrikes with two lighting charriots zipping around, or the battalions where if you kill one of there squads they get to shoot back at you oh and the whole longstrikes shooting in the hero phase?

Currently been using the changehost to try and get my LOC close enough to cast infernal gateway and firestorm to put a dent in the long strikes, but with the new FAQ not letting you pick the same model its making it more and more difficult.

Im this close to just flooding the board with skyfires, but would prefer a more healthy and varied option.

As an aetherstrike cheese player I always struggle against my friends Changehost plus Skyfire list (this was at 2.5k). I find the mortal wound output is just way to much for elite MSU armies to handle.

You can just kill the priests, they only have five wounds, a lucky bolt of tzeentch and theyre dead. Easy to do t1 by swapping in a herald. Theyre also not part of the battallion so you wont get shot for it.

Depending on how big the long strike unit is a gaunt summoner on balewind vortex will seriously dent them and with only 7 bravery they're a lot more fragile than people give them credit for.

Focus the longstrikes. Without them the list lacks punch. If you cant do that then play to the objectives. You have more models and with smart use of the change host, better movement.

I'm yet to see how the changehost FAQ affects our games but I can tell you that DoT is very very very strong against stormcast. Use your destiny dice, spam mortal wounds, play objectives and you'll be fine.

[ssharkus]

Overall i do not see a single non-Tzeench ally worth taking for DoT.    Monsters of Chaos are rubbish with no synergies. Everchosen - we can already take Archaon and Gaunts. Thunderscorn is just a joke really.  All usefull slaves to darkness we can already mark. Belakor and soul grinder are in Demons of Chaos braket, so unavailable.

The only option i see are chaos gargants, and thats just for fun, random attack shenanigans and because i already own one)))

 

[Malakithe]

12 minutes ago, Kakoshka said:

As an aetherstrike cheese player I always struggle against my friends Changehost plus Skyfire list (this was at 2.5k). I find the mortal wound output is just way to much for elite MSU armies to handle.

You can just kill the priests, they only have five wounds, a lucky bolt of tzeentch and theyre dead. Easy to do t1 by swapping in a herald. Theyre also not part of the battallion so you wont get shot for it.

Depending on how big the long strike unit is a gaunt summoner on balewind vortex will seriously dent them and with only 7 bravery they're a lot more fragile than people give them credit for.

Focus the longstrikes. Without them the list lacks punch. If you cant do that then play to the objectives. You have more models and with smart use of the change host, better movement.

I'm yet to see how the changehost FAQ affects our games but I can tell you that DoT is very very very strong against stormcast. Use your destiny dice, spam mortal wounds, play objectives and you'll be fine.

I would like to see some actual variation to the lists. Everything is changehost this and changehost that..

8 minutes ago, ssharkus said:

Overall i do not see a single non-Tzeench ally worth taking for DoT.    Monsters of Chaos are rubbish with no synergies. Everchosen - we can already take Archaon and Gaunts. Thunderscorn is just a joke really.  All usefull slaves to darkness we can already mark. Belakor and soul grinder are in Demons of Chaos braket, so unavailable.

The only option i see are chaos gargants, and thats just for fun, random attack shenanigans and because i already own one)))

 

Yeah I dont even look at allies cuz those that are worth anything can take the Tzeentch keyword anyway

[hobgoblinclub]

8 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Notice how daemons of nurgle and rotbringers both only care about keyword nurgle? Notice how daemons get no allies but rotbringers get a bunch, including daemons of nurgle? The faction groups are not the same as allegiances. 

Just like rotbringers can't bring 400 pts of non-nurgle allies in addition to some nurgle daemons, disciples of tzeentch can't bring 400 pts of non-tzeentch allies in addition to tzeentch slaves to darkness units.

Edit: and a more interesting example - you can take a nurgle allegiance army mixing from nurgle rotbringers, daemons of nurgle, Slaves to darkness marked nurgle, and clan pestilens units, but the only way to take non-nurgle units as allies it to limit the 'Core' units to nurgle rotbringers faction.

 

When using nurgles rotbringers faction, there's no way to take clan pestilens faction stuff despite the fact that pestilens all includes the nurgle keyword.

I'm not sure how we can go forwards here without causing an argument. Perhaps some experienced community members could quote me and weigh in? @Nico are you on this thread much? 

There's one or two of you on here making a distinction between DoT and their 'Tzeentch allies'. DoT don't have Tzeentch allies. All Tzeentch units are DoT. All DoT are Tzeentch. Taking marked Slaves to Darkness is just as much DoT as taking Tzaangor. 

They've announced on the stream that Nurgle now works the same way. There is no 'core' Nurgle plus the other Nurgle factions. All Nurgle is Nurgle. 

Honestly. Get in touch with one of the GW staff on here or on Twitter. It's a great thing! The options open up Tzeentch / Khorne / Nurgle are huge in comparison to any other general! That's way it's seeming confusing. You get to choose any of it! Whoop! 

[Nico]

I'd echo the above. They didn't unify the disparate bits of each Chaos god only to divide them back up (nor is it convenient to list 80 Warscrolls for each god). The factions with ally restrictions only matter for things like Pestilens armies taking Clanrats or Masterclan as allies (not so that Nurgle keyword units become allies to a Nurgle army).

[decker_cky]

Well...the issue is that GW flat out didn't write the right rule to accommodate categories with names that differ from the allegiance keyword (all skaven clans, all marks of chaos). Really, it should have made a separate table of keyword allegiances and the allies they work with rather than linking it into the somewhat arbitrary unit entry boxes. 

[Arkiham]

Here's a work in progress list.

Fatesworn.

Lord on demonic mount
Sorc on manticore
Gaunt summoner + familiers.

Balewind

27 chaos warriors 
9 chaos warriors
9 chaos warriors
2x1 chaos spawn
Chaos chariot
9 chaos knights 

Sayl

2k points

[TheOtherJosh]

12 hours ago, hobgoblinclub said:

...There's one or two of you on here making a distinction between DoT and their 'Tzeentch allies'. DoT don't have Tzeentch allies. All Tzeentch units are DoT. All DoT are Tzeentch. Taking marked Slaves to Darkness is just as much DoT as taking Tzaangor....

Unfortunately, it's not according to how the new Faction rules exist in GHB 2017. In GHB 2016, when there were no Faction/Ally rules, only Allegiance rules, what you are proposing would be just fine. In GHB 2016, the "DoT lists using mixed StoD and DoT" were actually creating a Allegiance:Tzeentch Grand Alliance Chaos army.

But the changes in GHB 2017 changed that concept by adding Allies and additional Allegiance abilities. Previously there were "Khorne, Tzeentch and Chaos" now that list has more than doubled.

Using Allies requires that you pull your Army from just the Faction list entries.

Disciples of Tzeentch army faction list entries are on Page 91, and Slaves to Darkness army list entries are on page 94. If the unit isn't on the that list on that page you can't be taken in a  purely "Faction" force.

Each faction list has a different set of Ally options.

It is possible to still have a Grand Alliance Chaos Army with Allegiance:Tzeentch. Exactly like previous, but in doing so one looses the ability to take Allies. This is because Allies are based on your Army faction.

If you choose a Grand Alliance Chaos army with Faction Tzeentch then you can mix battleline units from DoT and StoD. (And any other Tzeentch markable force.)

It is also possible to have a Slaves to Darkness faction army with Allegiance:Tzeentch.

You are correct. DoT doesn't have "Tzeentch Allies...it has “Allies: Chaos Gargants, Everchosen, Monsters of Chaos, Slaves to Darkness (excluding units with mark of NURGLE), Thunderscorn”

Sure ...  and all DoT is Tzeentch keyworded.

But "all Tzeentch is not DoT." 

 

[hobgoblinclub]

14 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Unfortunately, it's not according to how the new Faction rules exist in GHB 2017. In GHB 2016, when there were no Faction/Ally rules, only Allegiance rules, what you are proposing would be just fine. In GHB 2016, the "DoT lists using mixed StoD and DoT" were actually creating a Allegiance:Tzeentch Grand Alliance Chaos army.

But the changes in GHB 2017 changed that concept by adding Allies and additional Allegiance abilities. Previously there were "Khorne, Tzeentch and Chaos" now that list has more than doubled.

Using Allies requires that you pull your Army from just the Faction list entries.

Disciples of Tzeentch army faction list entries are on Page 91, and Slaves to Darkness army list entries are on page 94. If the unit isn't on the that list on that page you can't be taken in a  purely "Faction" force.

Each faction list has a different set of Ally options.

It is possible to still have a Grand Alliance Chaos Army with Allegiance:Tzeentch. Exactly like previous, but in doing so one looses the ability to take Allies. This is because Allies are based on your Army faction.

If you choose a Grand Alliance Chaos army with Faction Tzeentch then you can mix battleline units from DoT and StoD. (And any other Tzeentch markable force.)

It is also possible to have a Slaves to Darkness faction army with Allegiance:Tzeentch.

You are correct. DoT doesn't have "Tzeentch Allies...it has “Allies: Chaos Gargants, Everchosen, Monsters of Chaos, Slaves to Darkness (excluding units with mark of NURGLE), Thunderscorn”

Sure ...  and all DoT is Tzeentch keyworded.

But "all Tzeentch is not DoT." 

 

It is mate. Honestly. I not sure how else I can explain it. I'm just trying to help you address your misconception. You can take any Tzeentch stuff with the DoT allies. I'm sure if you play it, you'll  see it's fine. 

See the attached image from the DoT book. The only options for allegiance are Tzeentch or Chaos. This is in the DoT book. They are the same thing. 

[Nevvermore]

22 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

It is mate. Honestly. I not sure how else I can explain it. I'm just trying to help you address your misconception. You can take any Tzeentch stuff with the DoT allies. I'm sure if you play it, you'll  see it's fine. 

See the attached image from the DoT book. The only options for allegiance are Tzeentch or Chaos. This is in the DoT book. They are the same thing. 

Technically, you are wrong. Technically, this is a stupid discussion. But they are right. This passage refers to ALLEGIANCE. you are correct, any model with the TZEENTCH keyword can be used in an army using the TZEENTCH alliegance abilities.

the problem is the ally rules don't refer to ALLEGIANCE. they refer to FACTION. FACTION and ALLEGIANCE are not the same thing. A FACTION consists of the units in the faction list, pg 87-111 in the generals handbook. An army consisting solely of models from one faction can take X points of allies without losing their alliegance abilities. 

So so what's the problem? Well... in the DISCIPLES OF TZEENTCH FACTION, listed on pg 91 of the GHB, Slaves to Darkness units aren't included. That means Slaves to Darkness are not DISCIPLES OF TZEENTCH FACTION. And thus, a TZEENTCH ALLEGIANCE army that includes any Slaves to Darkness cannot take allies and keep their alliegance abilities. 

is this a stupid technicality? Yes. Is this just an oversight from the writers? Yes. Is it obvious that they meant for Slaves to Darkness to count as DISCIPLES OF TZEENTCH FACTION? Yes. Should we stop talking about it? Probably not, because clear wording is always good, and while the intent is clear in this case, the actual text is not.