Thomas Lyons Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 As many may have noted in their app, the High Warden (HE Griffon Rider), Reavers, and Spireguard (Lothern Seaguard) have been added to Swifthawk Agents subfaction. The High Warden has literally been imported wholesale into the faction with no changes at 220 points. The Reavers have likewise been imported in, keeping battleline status, at 160 for 5 models. Spireguard, on the other hand, gained the ability to be battleline when mono-Swifthawk, although their points have increased from 120....to 200. At 200, they are competing directly, point for point with Shadow Warriors who are better. If that wasn't bad enough, at 200, Spireguard are competing with Reavers for Swifthawk battleline, who have the same number of wounds and save, are lightyears better on movement, have 50% more ranged attacks and 300% more melee attacks...and are 40 points cheaper. Anyone have any other thoughts on the mess of their pointing? Have I missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinncinnatus Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 The only justification I can think of is that it's a mistake. They are the same unit as before while gaining one new synergy which they already had access to in the Compendium with the Sea Helm! Also, one of their abilities to reroll 1's requires at least 20 bodies in the unit, so you'd be looking at 400 points minimum before they even reached their optimal state outside of synergies. At that cost, they are still mediocre at hitting and wounding. It has to be a mistake. I am fairly certain they will go back down to 120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Griffin Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Hoping it's a mistake. It'd be a gross over-costing otherwise. As a point of reference - my app won't pull up the "Guardians of Dawnspire" battalion, and my Swifthawk Agents faction also includes the "Ripsnikks Raiders", so it's clear that the app isn't perfectly updated at the moment, assuming the Raiders battalion is Skaven. As an aside, what does the Guardians of Dawnspire do? Can anyone else access it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 20 minutes ago, David Griffin said: As an aside, what does the Guardians of Dawnspire do? Can anyone else access it? My app won't let me pull it down. I don't think anyone can see it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjarni St. Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 The Reavers are kind of cute as battleline filler but overall the stats are very meh, with no synergies to make it pop. I'm not expecting anything huge from the battalion. Fingers crossed that the Guard points are nonsense at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 For 200 ill just stick to reavers/shadow and go for swordmasters or phoenix guard for "elite" slot. Not like ill have any benefit from running pure hawks anyway, i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blish Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Silly question: where are you finding these points costs? I've never seen points in the App. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 5 hours ago, Bjarni St. said: The Reavers are kind of cute as battleline filler but overall the stats are very meh, with no synergies to make it pop. Skywarden's banners are a stacking +1 to wound in a 16" radius. 2 Skywardens will make Reavers 4+/2+ on their 3 ranged attacks and 3 melee attacks. Not too shabby. 3 hours ago, Blish said: Silly question: where are you finding these points costs? I've never seen points in the App. Thanks You have to have purchased the General's handbook in the app. If you did, the profiles for units in the "My Battle" allows you to see the unit points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjarni St. Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Fair enough, I'll stand halfway corrected on that. I was able to see the points for the new units with just the stock app fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 9 hours ago, Blish said: Silly question: where are you finding these points costs? I've never seen points in the App. Thanks you can also go to www.scrollbuilder.com and have fun :0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 also reavers can move before or after shooting. That can be very annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miarbi Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 The lost of the HIGHBORN keyword, and the change in the banner rules concerns me a lot, this just made them have less synergy, and each faction doesnt have enough units to make the banner rule useful, well that's what i think, and you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinncinnatus Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 2 hours ago, Miarbi said: The lost of the HIGHBORN keyword, and the change in the banner rules concerns me a lot, this just made them have less synergy, and each faction doesnt have enough units to make the banner rule useful, well that's what i think, and you? They may have lost the HIGHBORN keyword, but they gained the SWIFTHAWK in it's place. This gives them the same access to the same synergy, but now they have a 16 inch buff bubble compared to the 8 inch buff bubble from the Sea Helm in Highborn lists. This is a great improvement for the Reavers. What the Swifthawks need is the footslogging Sea Helm to get ported over as well to give the slower moving units (Spire Guard and Shadow Warriors) some buffs. Granted, The 16 inch range on the Skywarden buff is probably sufficient, but if you need to camp 30 Spire Guard on an objective to get points, having a footslogging hero you can hide easily behind a bunch of troops buff them is easier than hiding the Skywarden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmbyoung Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 What base size is the High Warden on in the new box? Looks wider than the 90x53mm base you get in one of the Shattered Dominion kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZaelART Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/review-spire-of-dawn/ This guy managed to get a box and open it. He confirms that the 200 pts for Spireguard on the app was a mistake and there is a picture from the printed booklet showing that they are 120 pts. Also has the Warscroll Batallion rules - Archmage and Swordmasters gain Swifthawk Agents and a unit within 16" of the High Warden can move or shoot in the hero phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmbyoung Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 12 December 2016 at 7:59 PM, Thomas Lyons said: Spireguard, on the other hand, gained the ability to be battleline when mono-Swifthawk, although their points have increased from 120....to 200. At 200, they are competing directly, point for point with Shadow Warriors who are better. If that wasn't bad enough, at 200, Spireguard are competing with Reavers for Swifthawk battleline, who have the same number of wounds and save, are lightyears better on movement, have 50% more ranged attacks and 300% more melee attacks...and are 40 points cheaper. Anyone have any other thoughts on the mess of their pointing? Have I missed something? It's a typo in the app, which hopefully will get changed. It should be 120 - see photos from the box set: https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/review-spire-of-dawn/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 I did indeed see this today. What is more interesting is that the battalion grants the Swifthawk Agents keyword to the Swordmasters and Archmage for the battalion, which means all of the wound stacking works for them. Even more important arguably is the fact that the Archmage on Dragon can be brought into the faction because he has the Archmage keyword. Things just got realllllllyyyyy interesting for high elves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miarbi Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: I did indeed see this today. What is more interesting is that the battalion grants the Swifthawk Agents keyword to the Swordmasters and Archmage for the battalion, which means all of the wound stacking works for them. Even more important arguably is the fact that the Archmage on Dragon can be brought into the faction because he has the Archmage keyword. Things just got realllllllyyyyy interesting for high elves. I dont think you can include de archmage dragon, cause the dragon its not an upgrade its a different figure with different warscroll, the battalion use Archmage not Archmage on dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 8 minutes ago, Miarbi said: I dont think you can include de archmage dragon, cause the dragon its not an upgrade its a different figure with different warscroll, the battalion use Archmage not Archmage on dragon All battalion requirements are keywords. The requirement is 1 Archmage. The Archmage on Dragon has the Archmage keyword. This is made clear multiple times over in the FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Buckler Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 its all done on keywords not warscrolls. So it works in the batallion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppetford Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 So excited by this! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmbyoung Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 16 December 2016 at 8:09 PM, Paul Buckler said: its all done on keywords not warscrolls. So it works in the batallion I thought this too, until the latest version of the FAQ, released recently: Quote Q: How do you determine what models and units make up a warscroll battalion? When is it based on a keyword and when is it a unit name?A: When a warscroll battalion is referring to a keyword, it appears in Keyword Bold. Otherwise, it is referring to the name of a unit. In the Guardians of the Dawnspire Battalion in the AoS App the Archmage is not in keyword bold, so I don't think the Archmage on Dragon is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Buckler Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, rmbyoung said: I thought this too, until the latest version of the FAQ, released recently: In the Guardians of the Dawnspire Battalion in the AoS App the Archmage is not in keyword bold, so I don't think the Archmage on Dragon is allowed. Yep FAQ changed the rules, so now you cant do it anymore. ( My reply was written pre FAQ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 44 minutes ago, Paul Buckler said: Yep FAQ changed the rules, so now you cant do it anymore. ( My reply was written pre FAQ) This, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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