Stat Your Heroes

[ElectricPaladin]

I thought it might be entertaining to use this fantastic tool to create custom versions of our armies' leaders. The goal would be to make them characterful and - perhaps - reflective of a few of our exemplary games while still keeping them more or less balanced. The goal is to have fun, not be too silly, hone our making-stuff-up skills, and maybe invent some characters we can convince our buddies to let us use for friendly games.

[KHHaunts]

Well these arent my own army characters but here are some rules for some old characters i have.

Gotrek, Felix and Ariel

 

gotrek-gurnisson.pdf

felix-jaeger.pdf

ariel-queen-of-the-forest.pdf

[hellalugosi]

I play with chaos spawns a lot, and they are the source of constant hilarity in game. Often i find myself running a chaos spawn as a general for no other reason than to watch what kind of shenanigans happen.

 

 

[KHHaunts]

 see i was thinking of making a custom hero generator to aid in making them not to OP.

If anyone's ever played worms mayhem and used the custom weapon maker i was thinking a little like that.

Essentially have a dial that fills up every time you add something to your hero and when it hits red your OP and need to dial it back some.

Obviously you wouldn't be able to have completely custom abilities but instead would have to choose from a large range. but you could name everything else and alter the weapon. It would almost be like all the allegiance command traits and artifacts but on steroids.

You wouldn't be able to create Nagash level characters with it.

But i liked the idea because if you make it from a single engine people can say that it was within the power boundaries of that particular program so everyone would have a common stick to measure by.

[MacDuff]

EP, this is really great. You should add a points field somewhere so people can play test better against known heroes.

[CoffeeGrunt]

This is actually pretty handy. Tempted to just make up a load of custom Warscrolls for various unit ideas I have:

[hellalugosi]

On 12/11/2016 at 4:09 AM, KHHaunts said:

 see i was thinking of making a custom hero generator to aid in making them not to OP.

If anyone's ever played worms mayhem and used the custom weapon maker i was thinking a little like that.

Essentially have a dial that fills up every time you add something to your hero and when it hits red your OP and need to dial it back some.

Obviously you wouldn't be able to have completely custom abilities but instead would have to choose from a large range. but you could name everything else and alter the weapon. It would almost be like all the allegiance command traits and artifacts but on steroids.

You wouldn't be able to create Nagash level characters with it.

But i liked the idea because if you make it from a single engine people can say that it was within the power boundaries of that particular program so everyone would have a common stick to measure by.

We can take existing heroes and try to make templates!

For example, priest and wizard heroes usually have these kinds of stat lines:

Move 5/6, Save 5/6, Bravery 7, Wounds 5.

If they are a priest, they have more consistent weaponry. Wizards have the staff that can do d3 damage but its harder to hit.

Priests will usually have an ability to do a 8" to 12" heal/buff/smite prayer on a 3 or higher. A fairly easy roll. 

Wizards have access to spells but must hit their casting levels. Usually an 18" unique spell will be around 6 to 7 in casting roll.

 

Now lets take a look at the average DPS/Command hero warscroll:

Move 5, Save 3/4, Bravery 7/8, Wounds 5/6.

These are variable based on the role they have in your army. Fairly self sufficient heroes don't buff your armies and don't have command abilities. These will really gain from taking an artifact.

Assassin units move fast (around 8"), and may have a teleport, along with a worse save, iand lots of dice for attacks. 

Challengers have good saves, and decent damage, usually buffed when against another hero. Their abilities are based on triggers that specifically effect themselves. 

Leaders are similar to challengers but all their abilities focus on AoE with friendly units. These are good choices for general but not as good as-

Generals these guys are the bread and butter of your army, gaining access to that command ability that is so important. These guys cost more, and show it. Sometimes these guys are mounted, and have access to wizardry, or ranged attacks.

 

Cost wise, Priests will be around 80, Wizards around 80-140 (based on their unique spell), heroes around 100-160.

If anyone has anything else to add, I'd love to help start an archive of balanced custom heroes!

 

[Squirrelmaster]

@CoffeeGrunt I really like the "Revenant King" idea. If I might make a suggestion, though: His command ability is going to have really strong synergy with Morghasts, moreso than with any other unit. If you wanted to balance him for competitive play, I think it would be a good idea to tweak that ability so that using it on spirit hosts, etc. would actually make sense from a competitive standpoint, maybe just restricting it to work on certain keywords only.

[CoffeeGrunt]

18 minutes ago, Squirrelmaster said:

@CoffeeGrunt I really like the "Revenant King" idea. If I might make a suggestion, though: His command ability is going to have really strong synergy with Morghasts, moreso than with any other unit. If you wanted to balance him for competitive play, I think it would be a good idea to tweak that ability so that using it on spirit hosts, etc. would actually make sense from a competitive standpoint, maybe just restricting it to work on certain keywords only.

Would probably restrict it to just Nighthaunt then. Hadn't thought of Morghasts when I was trying to think up what units it could be used on.

[KHHaunts]

10 hours ago, hellalugosi said:

We can take existing heroes and try to make templates!

For example, priest and wizard heroes usually have these kinds of stat lines:

Move 5/6, Save 5/6, Bravery 7, Wounds 5.

If they are a priest, they have more consistent weaponry. Wizards have the staff that can do d3 damage but its harder to hit.

Priests will usually have an ability to do a 8" to 12" heal/buff/smite prayer on a 3 or higher. A fairly easy roll. 

Wizards have access to spells but must hit their casting levels. Usually an 18" unique spell will be around 6 to 7 in casting roll.

 

Now lets take a look at the average DPS/Command hero warscroll:

Move 5, Save 3/4, Bravery 7/8, Wounds 5/6.

These are variable based on the role they have in your army. Fairly self sufficient heroes don't buff your armies and don't have command abilities. These will really gain from taking an artifact.

Assassin units move fast (around 8"), and may have a teleport, along with a worse save, iand lots of dice for attacks. 

Challengers have good saves, and decent damage, usually buffed when against another hero. Their abilities are based on triggers that specifically effect themselves. 

Leaders are similar to challengers but all their abilities focus on AoE with friendly units. These are good choices for general but not as good as-

Generals these guys are the bread and butter of your army, gaining access to that command ability that is so important. These guys cost more, and show it. Sometimes these guys are mounted, and have access to wizardry, or ranged attacks.

 

Cost wise, Priests will be around 80, Wizards around 80-140 (based on their unique spell), heroes around 100-160.

If anyone has anything else to add, I'd love to help start an archive of balanced custom heroes!

 

I like this.

Brainstorm may be in order.

If we can come up with a template that works i should be able to put it into a program/app. (Once ive finished my Battle report visual aid program)

[KHHaunts]

Another element to the template is seperating the points costs of a selection of mounts from their current riders. In the cases of things like Manfredd this isent to difficult.

count mannfredd is worth 160 points

Mortarch is worth 460.

The only difference between count and mortarch manny is the mortarch of night ability and his keywords.

so at a quick guess i would perhaps put the Dread abyssal at 280 points

460 - 160 = 300 - 20(Mortarch of night ability??) = 280

There will be a bit of guess work but since this is just for fun non comp games i think the best thing to do is to point cost every so slightly higher??

So if we went with this then i could create a 4th mortarch using a :

wight king with black axe (120 points) + dread abyssal(280) + one of our pre-costed abilities as a mortarch ability (20) = 420 for Mortarch Krell
?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Been having way too much fun with this, just padding out Nighthaunt to give them options they sorely need. Tweaked the Revenant King a touch to make it easier to read and also specific to Nighthaunt:

Also made a new unit, a Shade. It's a debuff unit primarily, intended to combo nicely with Tomb Banshee or a brutal charge, to make Battleshock that little bit nastier. In itself it's fragile and weak though:

Also Vengeful Legions. Think Empire Militia painted like Ghosts. A good, high-quality Battleline:

Not sure how I'd do points though. I'm thinking the Revenant King would be about on par with the Vampire Lord as that's what I modelled it on. The Shade would probably be an 80pt Hero, it's meant to just be a cheap support unit hence the minimal damage output. Perhaps even 60pts to bring it in-line with the Cairn Wraith? I dunno, a list comboing them with Banshees could be brutal though.

Vengeful Legions would probably be 100pts for 10. They're a bit tarpitty, have a nasty To Wound ability and would be a good Battleline to buff. They don't have a rule giving them bonuses for having more models though. Perhaps +1 to Hit for over 20, +2 if over 30?

Also debating a Grave Guard-esque unit with compound crossbows for some support dakka. That and a Bone Horror unit which would be a massive gestalt horror made of skeletons and corpses. Its schtick would be sacrificing models from nearby Deathrattle units to heal itself, and being quite tough to kill.

[KHHaunts]

As i am currently running/ Building a nighthaunt themed army i am all over ever one of those!

Well at the moment im extracting points points best i can by splitting points where i can with there on foot counter parts.

so a white lion chariot is essentially the same stats as 2 white lions + what the white lion chariot brings.

so i just take all the differences as what a chariot provides and take 2 white lions off of 120

which ive rounded up to 80 points for a WL chariot.

 

As for the actual heros themselves im still working on that but i think using existing heros as a base is a good start.

Like a said it wont be perfect and the heros will proberbly be over costed slightly.

But if everyone sings of the same hymn sheet it hopefully wont matter to much.

[KHHaunts]

So i knockedthis together. Here most of the Order mounts with my calulation of there point costs on their own. (Most were done by the method i mentioned aboved however some had to be tweaked a little in which case ive rounded up to avoid OP)

The idea is that you simply add these to your non mounted hero profiles for the number of points and you get what it say by each one. Unique monster abilities can be a seperate thing.

Tell me what you think:

Order

Small

Horse: (Horse Combat stats, +6Move, +1 wound,) = 10 points

Pegasus: (Horse Combat stats, +6Move, +1 wound,Fly) = 15 points

Cold One(Coldone Combat stats, +5move, +1wound = 10 points

Great Stag:(Stags mights antlers, +5 move, +2wounds,Ability:Impaling Charge ) = 20 points

Warhawk:(Warhawks Beak, Move+10, Wounds+1,FLY, Abilities:Swift of Wing) = 30 points

 

Medium

Chariots:( Purebreeds swift hooves x2) +6 Move,+3 wounds, Abilities:Graceful Charge, Swift and deadly) = 40 Points

Drakespawn Chariot: (Drakespawn fangs x 2+4Move, +4 wounds, Scythed runner ability) = 50 Points

White lion Chariot: (War lions fangs and claws, +3 Move, +4 wounds, Ability:unbridled ferocity = 85 points

Great Eagle: (Eagles Beak and talons+10 Move, + 2 wounds, FLY, Ability:Death from the skies)   = 50 Points

Sky Cutter: (Hawks raking talons, +10Move, +3Wounds,FLY, Abilities: Swift hawk pennant, Fleet of wing) = 60 Points

Dracoth: (Dracoths claws and fangs, +5Move, +2Wounds, Abilities: Intolerable Damage &Storm Breath)= 120 Points

 

Large

Griffon: (Grifons beak, Griffons Talons, +10Move*, +5Wounds, FLY, AbilitiesPredatory Leap)= 140 Points

War Alter: (Light of banishment, Warhorses hooves, 5+Move*, +6 Wounds, Abilities: Sigmars shield , Light of Banishment, Power of Faith= 200 Points

Magmadroth:(Magmadroths claws, Move+8, Wounds+6 Abilities: Roaring Firestorm, Volcanic Blood, Lashing tail = 200 Points

Flamespyre Phoenix: (Talons, +6 Wounds, +10Move, Fly, Abilities:)= 240 Points

Dragon (Dragons Claws, Dragons Jaws( +8Move, +9Wounds,FLY, Abilities: Dragonfire) = 280 points

Black Dragon: (Dragons claws and jaws,+8 Move+, 9Wounds,Fly, Noxious Breath)= 260 Points

Forest Dragon: (Dragons Maw & Claws, +8Move, +7Wounds, Fly, Abilities: Soporific breath = 260 Points

Star Drake:(Stardrakes Claws, +7 Move, +11Wounds , FLY, Abilities: Cavernous Jaws, Sweeping Tail, Lord of the Heavens, Arcane lineage= 450 Points

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Squirrelmaster]

@CoffeeGrunt I think you might be under-costing things slightly. The Revenant King is similar to a Vampire Lord, but ethereal can make a big difference (stick him in cover with a Cairn Shield, cast Mystic Shield on him, you now have a 2+ re-rollable ethereal save). I'd say about 180 - 200pts would be closer. The Shade I'd put around 80 - 100pts (5+ ethereal and incorporeal can be better than a 4+ ethereal against many things, things could get really nasty if you have several of these and several banshees, maybe a screaming skull catapult or two as well). Vengeful Legions I'd put more around 120pts for 10 (though I agree, they could use a boost for larger units).

It's hard to be sure without a lot of playtesting, though.

[KHHaunts]

14 hours ago, hellalugosi said:

We can take existing heroes and try to make templates!

For example, priest and wizard heroes usually have these kinds of stat lines:

Move 5/6, Save 5/6, Bravery 7, Wounds 5.

If they are a priest, they have more consistent weaponry. Wizards have the staff that can do d3 damage but its harder to hit.

Priests will usually have an ability to do a 8" to 12" heal/buff/smite prayer on a 3 or higher. A fairly easy roll. 

Wizards have access to spells but must hit their casting levels. Usually an 18" unique spell will be around 6 to 7 in casting roll.

 

Now lets take a look at the average DPS/Command hero warscroll:

Move 5, Save 3/4, Bravery 7/8, Wounds 5/6.

These are variable based on the role they have in your army. Fairly self sufficient heroes don't buff your armies and don't have command abilities. These will really gain from taking an artifact.

Assassin units move fast (around 8"), and may have a teleport, along with a worse save, iand lots of dice for attacks. 

Challengers have good saves, and decent damage, usually buffed when against another hero. Their abilities are based on triggers that specifically effect themselves. 

Leaders are similar to challengers but all their abilities focus on AoE with friendly units. These are good choices for general but not as good as-

Generals these guys are the bread and butter of your army, gaining access to that command ability that is so important. These guys cost more, and show it. Sometimes these guys are mounted, and have access to wizardry, or ranged attacks.

 

Cost wise, Priests will be around 80, Wizards around 80-140 (based on their unique spell), heroes around 100-160.

If anyone has anything else to add, I'd love to help start an archive of balanced custom heroes!

 

 

Chucked together the start of a template for a "Human Hero"

It works like the 40k squad customization on steroids (Which is why id like to make a program to make is user friendly)

However here is the gyst.

I have not yet included any ability options or keywords as i feel alot of input would be needed for that to work so assume that you have chosen your abilites as it says at the bottom.

I used  similar idea to your with regards to average stats except where the Stats are the same (Like human movement being 5 almost across the board) that stays as is. However those that vary were averaged out and then stripped down to the minimum to give you excess state points

These you can distribute among the stat wheel sticking to the maximums it says to allow for some variety without becoming OTT.

Finally the weapon points and stats were done looking at other of s similar kind and done quite roughly so expecting plenty of changes there.

Anyways check it out:

 

Order Character template

 

Human hero = 80 Points

Base Stats: M = 5(+1 Max) W= 5(+1 Max), S = 5(+2 Max), B=7(+3 Max)

Excess Stat Points:3

Base Weapons(Choose 1)

· Sword  Rn:1 A:3H:3 W:4 R:-1 D:1

· Warhammer Rn:1 A:4 H:4W:4 R:0 D:1

· Great Sword (two hands) Rn:3 A:3 H:4 W:3 R:-2 D:2

· Bow: Rn:18 A:3 H:3 W:4 R:D:1

· Cross Bow Rn:18 A:2 H:3 W:4 R:-1 D:1 (Piercing Bolt Ability)

 

Weapon Upgrades/Additions(Weapons can only be added to off hand if unit dosent have a 2 handed weapon)

· Greathammer(Two Handed) Rn:1 A:2H:4 W:3 R:-1 D:D3 = 5 Points

· BattleAxe (Two Handed) Rn:1 A:2H:4 W:3 R:-2 D:D3 = 10 Points

· Sword(2nd) = 10 Points

· Warhammer(2nd) = 10 points

· Lance (Mounted Only) (one only) Rn:1 A:2H:4 W:3 R:-2 D:D3 = 10 Points

· Rune Sword = Rn:1 A:3H:3 W:3 R:-2 D:2 = 20 Points (30 for 2nd)

· Celestial Warhammer = Rn:1 A:4 H:4W:3 R:01D:D3 = 20 (30 for 2nd)

· Celestial Greathammer = (Two Handed) Rn:1 A:2H:4 W:3 R:-1 D:D3 = 25 Points

· Slayer Lance (Mounted Only) (one only) Rn:2 A:2H:3 W:2 R:-2 D:D3 = 25 Points

· Shield (re roll saves of 1)= 10 Points

· Great Shield(Re roll saves if you didnt move this turn) = 10 Points

· Master crafted Bow = Rn:20 A:3 H:3 W:3 R:-1 D:2 = 20 Points

 

Abilities would require a bit more work but it work something along the lines of

· Make a list of abilities divided up into levels or tiers (or even individual points but that might be to much)

· A hero can take a select amount of abilities without adding points (E.g. one tier 1 and 1 tier 2)

· Additional abilities will cost points based on the tier

 

Keywords would perhaps work in a similar way in that a unit is entitled to (an allegiance, A race, a faction and its name) for free. However all additional keywords would need paying for.

 

Obviously it will require a lot of trial and error and testing

 

 

So if i wanted to field Felix Jager for instance He would look a little like this:

Felix Jager

M = 5 W= 6 S = 4, B=8

with

Karaghul(Rune Blade)

with two abilities free

and one more that makes his weapon -1 to rend and double damage against enemies with dragon key words) (for lets say 20 Points)

Keywords: Order, Human,Free peoples, Felix Jager, Duardin (an additional key word for 20 points to reflect his connection as a dwarf friend)

Obvioully made up the key word and ability point but that version of Felix would cost( drum roll please . . . .)

= 140 points

 

[CoffeeGrunt]

1 hour ago, Squirrelmaster said:

@CoffeeGrunt I think you might be under-costing things slightly. The Revenant King is similar to a Vampire Lord, but ethereal can make a big difference (stick him in cover with a Cairn Shield, cast Mystic Shield on him, you now have a 2+ re-rollable ethereal save). I'd say about 180 - 200pts would be closer. The Shade I'd put around 80 - 100pts (5+ ethereal and incorporeal can be better than a 4+ ethereal against many things, things could get really nasty if you have several of these and several banshees, maybe a screaming skull catapult or two as well). Vengeful Legions I'd put more around 120pts for 10 (though I agree, they could use a boost for larger units).

It's hard to be sure without a lot of playtesting, though.

Fair point. Re the Revenant King, the Barrow Axe only makes him as hitty as a Cairn Wraith, so I wasn't sure where to draw the line. I think 180pts is a fair cop though. I'd probably go for overcosting things more than anything, if only to make sure I'm not accused of cheesing it up.

Mostly thinking of using these as interesting or different threats in Hinterlands scenarios, though.

[Lucio]

This set of rules is for my Megaboss, Varag the Squig Master. Couldn't resist an alternative Megaboss who could field Squigs in his army. His main ability makes a Destruction army even faster than before, letting them get stuck in quickly, rather than making them any harder hitting.

Any suggestions for points cost?

[KHHaunts]

 

9 hours ago, Lucio said:

This set of rules is for my Megaboss, Varag the Squig Master. Couldn't resist an alternative Megaboss who could field Squigs in his army. His main ability makes a Destruction army even faster than before, letting them get stuck in quickly, rather than making them any harder hitting.

Any suggestions for points cost?

Only for humans at the moment. But will do one for orks if people like it.

 

[Kramer]

On 12/9/2016 at 8:00 PM, ElectricPaladin said:

I thought it might be entertaining to use this fantastic tool to create custom versions of our armies' leaders. The goal would be to make them characterful and - perhaps - reflective of a few of our exemplary games while still keeping them more or less balanced. The goal is to have fun, not be too silly, hone our making-stuff-up skills, and maybe invent some characters we can convince our buddies to let us use for friendly games.

Slightly of topic but netto's the same result. Characterful generals you can field with/against your friends.

I've been thinking to start a Path to glory campaign with a couple of mates. Afterwards the generals can be included as named model in any games we have. Which makes every game afterwards more narative and is a great way to ensure personal vendetta's  

[Squirrelmaster]

Not a hero, but I feel like this guy deserves to have some rules:

Initially I'm thinking about 240pts, does that sound right?

[KHHaunts]

Trial for the template. Would love some feedback and help.

[HobbyHammer]

This is such a good tool!! 

Wanted to make a scroll for my RAW16 'Most Famous Trophy Winning' General, I present Lord Reggio on Shadowclaw.

Cant add in Free Peoples or Nobility Keywords currently as the app doesn't have them. But the scroll mixes elements of King Louen and the Carmine Dragon.

[CoffeeGrunt]

3 minutes ago, HobbyHammer said:

Cant add in Free Peoples or Nobility Keywords currently as the app doesn't have them. But the scroll mixes elements of King Louen and the Carmine Dragon.

If you just type the keywords and press enter, it'll add them to the system.

[HobbyHammer]

Just now, CoffeeGrunt said:

If you just type the keywords and press enter, it'll add them to the system.

I tried that, but still wouldn't add them. This might be a Mac safari issue?