101 Ways to form Narrative Play Forces.

[Rogue Explorator]

One of the things I really like about Narrative Play is the ability to shake things up and play the game in many different ways.

A point where this is especially true, is also one of the most contended and difficult points of Narrative Plays:

How to decide on a way to build the Forces each player has available.

 

So I thought it would be a cool thing for the community to collect a list of as many different ways to select Forces in Narrative Play as possible.

To get this rolling, I thought I'd throw in the first five ideas I can think of, along with the pro and cons of each option:

 

1. Use some variant of Matched Play Points. Points are not the only thing that make a game Matched Play, by using Points, but ignoring all other restrictions of the mode, you get a flexible approach to building Narrative Play Armies.

Pro:

You know what to expect. If you have experience with Matched Play, you have a very good idea how armies build using Points measure up. Points can give you an easy guide on the size of battles

You have a reasonable amount of balance.

It is easy to vary the strength of Forces. Many battleplans are build for scenarios where one Army has a more powerful Force than the other. With points you can give a good guide on the amount of the power difference.

Con:

It is the same old. If you want a change from Matched Play, using points won't get you very far.

Problems from Matched Play carry over to Narrative. A overcosted unit in Matched Play, is still undercosted and a painful tradeoff to include. Similarly, undercosted units and overpowered options remain so.

Points wheren't designed for anything but Matched Play. A good example are Mages, who are costed taking the rule of one into account and get much stronger without it in effect.

 

2. Just use your entire collection and let the battleplan take care of things. A great number of Narrative Battleplans released so far, put limits on the forces that can be deployed. Also, the missions given in battleplans often serve to balance a weaker force against a stronger, making victory far easier for the underdog ,sometimes all you need to do is survive and in a few, not even that is necessary!

Pro:

It is fast and easy. No accounting of numbers, nothing to organize, no haggling. Just grab what seems appropiate and go.

Con:

The bigger collection has a clear advantage.

 

3. Have a third person select the armies according to the scenario and background.

Pro:

Depending on you "Pool" of people, you get a huge variance of games just from this mode of Army selection. A dedicated competitive player will get you very different selections from a background fanatic. Particularly interesting might be having someone who doesn't play select armies.

The different Players do not even get the opportunity to attempt to get an advantage through army selection.

Con:

You need a third party that is willing to do this with either a cohesive knowledge of or direct access to the mini collections of all players.

People unaware of Fluff or Rules might make rather wonky choices.

This may be hard to pull of spontaniously.

 

4. Have each Player choose their Force freely but blind of each other, then send the list to a third person, who amends the lists for Fluff and Balance, by cutting units.

Pro:

You get to make your own choices.

Depending on the judge, this may well be the most balanced option.

The judge needs no knowledge of the players collection.

This can be organized online! We could set up a thread where people volunteer to judge or put out a call for a judge, both players send in their lists per e-mail or pm, then the judge sends back the ammended list for game day.

Con:

This needs to be organized and preplanned.

The players need to accept the judges decision.

The judge needs to be dependable, would be a bummer for everyone involved if the judge fails to send in his ammendmends by game day.

 

5. Haggle about it. Both players select their armies as in 4. But instead of sending the lists to a judge, they negotiate any ammendmends with each other.

Pro:

This can be quite fast and doesn't need a large amount of preplanning.

Possibly the most satisfactory and fluffy results for the involved players.

Con:

Only works if both players are of agreeable temperament and a particularly cooperative mindset. If sparks start flying, even the best of friends should step back from this variant.

 

 

 

Just a last few comments:

I'd hope this thread remains a listing of community ideas. This is not meant to find the one true way of building Narrative Armies, but provide a toolbox of various ideas that can be tried out, toyed with and mixed and matched.

Nor is this meant to be a discussion of the merits of Narrative Play in general.

 

So, with that said, lets get this rolling, if you have an idea, just put a number to it and post away!

[Oppenheimer]

Here's a very simple skirmish scenario for beginners to try out in store that I came up with a while ago. This kind of restriction list would work well I think.

1 unit with no more than 10 wounds. No better than 4+ saves. No ranged weapons.
or

1 unit with no more than 20 wounds. No better than 6+ (or - saves). No ranged weapons.

and
1 hero with no more than 5 wounds.

[Kramer]

Another suggestion would be, make a list of your available units in a faction/alliance and roll a couple of times. Play the same scenario twice but switch armies. 

[Tyrion]

How about random tables such as Path to Glory.  There was a time when you couldn't build an army without rolling dice to select things.  Game balance did tend to be the first casualty of these games though.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Tyrion

[SuperHappyTime]

On 12/6/2016 at 8:06 AM, Rogue Explorator said:

So, with that said, lets get this rolling, if you have an idea, just put a number to it and post away!

I'll be honest, I thought when you said 101 ideas, then had only 5, I thought you were being cheeky by being binary.

So I've been trying to work through an idea of an elf campaign and had the idea of choosing basic units (like a Leader and some Battleline or other previously Core units) and then "leveling" them up for the next battle of the campaign went on. So that 10 man unit of Dreadspears survives the battle with 3 models, they can start the next battle as 3 Black Guard for free. (my personal version is quite a bit different. Dreadspears were part of the "Witch Army", which based on the army could become the non-core Witch Elves, Sisters of the Thorn, or Doomfire Warlocks).

Ideally, you would start with two forces of 500-1000 points of A leader + Battleline units. Fight the first battle with the intention of there being survivors, then use the points of survivors to buy new models, then add 500 points of battleline to each side and start again. Note, I don't force minimum unit sizes, and instead count models individually (So a 7 man unit of Black Guard cost 18*7 = 126 points, not 180 points.

[Rogue Explorator]

2 hours ago, SuperHappyTime said:

I'll be honest, I thought when you said 101 ideas, then had only 5, I thought you were being cheeky by being binary.

I might have underestimated how widespread the thread format is. I've found it to be a common variant on RPG Messageboards, one person starting a "101 whatever" thread getting the Ball rolling and every further poster adding a few numbers of ideas.

Anyway, I'll prepare a bigger post tomorrow, collecting the ideas provided so far and adding some more of my own.

[AGPO]

6. Each pick an elite unit, a Battleline,  a monster and two heroes. 

7. Kill the necromancer - One player picks three characters who can summon. They can summon without limits but new units cannot summon. The other player picks their army accordingly.

8. Once all forces are deployed, either player can call "swap" and play with the other guys army instead.

9. Last stand: one player picks only heroes, the other player can't pick any heroes or missile troops. When a non hero unit is wiped out the opposing player can bring it back on their board edge.

10. Red Card: Each player picks a matched play army. Each player can then veto one wars roll which cannot be deployed.

[Rogue Explorator]

Ok, obviously, I did not find the time for "a bigger post" a day after my last, but I've finally found some space to dig this thread up and some more ideas.

The plan here is to continue collecting ideas and eventually compiling a full list, with full credits to every contributor, of course. Hopefully the Mods do not mind the occassional thread-necromancy in the course of what I see as a long term project.

 

Anyway, here are some more ideas:

 

Counting Wounds. This System seems to have been relatively widespread in the early days before the GHB. You just agree on a total number of wounds for each side.

Pro:

It is fast and easy.

You have a small amount of balance and accountability

Con:

It heavily favors more elite units, that are more efficient and/or have better saves. For example five Liberators or Chaos Warrior are simply superior to ten Marauders or Grots.

 

Make your own point system. This one is quite involved and requires a stable and very cooperative Gaming Group. Starting with matched play points, regularly talk things through with each other and amend the point list according to your experiences and playstyle.

Pro:

All the advantages one could see in points, but the possibility to slowly work the downsides out of the system.

Can be tailored very much to shared preferences.

Con:

A lot of work.

Requires a high degree of cooperation and agreement between the involved players. Otherwhise, there is a very high conflict potential.

As said, it requires a very stable gaming group.

 

The Turnaround. One player determines the battleplan, who takes which role in the battleplan, the story to be played and possibly already sets up the board. The second player makes a list of the army he thinks appropiate for the stated conditions. Then the first puts together his army.

Pro:

It includes choice of Battleplan in the balancing.

A very high degree of narrative tailoring to scenario possible.

Con:

It is very easy for the first player to take advantage, if so inclined.

 

According to the Good Book. Players do not build their own lists, but play a battleplan that includes premade army lists. Alternatively, a battleplan is played that is connected to a story and players try to mirror the forces in the story to the best of their ability.

Pro:

The Forces very closely match an existing narrative

Con

There are very few battleplans including clear army lists.

Stated forces may not match the collections of the players.

Very little room to create your own narrative/story.

[Ratamaplata]

- Appoint a 3rd party GM

The GM selects both players armies, writes a battle plan and, if they want to, controls random events or other forces (i.e. a marauding monster).

 

- Barter your army selections

Both players bring all their forces then barter with each other... "What do you want to take if I have a MLoK and 10 Blood Warriors?" etc

 

- Random

Roll off for it. Line your units up and randomise... you might end up hugely outmatched, but trying to win those games is fun right?

Edited December 28, 2016 by Ratamaplata

[AGPO]

1. Role reversal - Each player brings an army for his opponent to play with.
2. Carnage - four players, each start in one corner of the battlefield, objective sits dead in the middle. Random turn length kicks in turn five - game ends that turn on the roll of a 1, a 2 on turn 6, a 3 on turn 7 and so on. Whoever is closest to the objective when the game ends wins.
3. Meeting engagement - each player deploys two units. at the start of each player's turn they can bring on an extra unit.
4. Good ground for a stand - one player sets up all the terrain and their army. The other player then picks a larger army to attack. Victory points are scored for defending units that survive/are wiped out respectively.
5. Clash of the titans - Both sides can only pick models with the monster keyword.

[Kramer]

38 minutes ago, AGPO said:

• Meeting engagement - each player deploys two units. at the start of each player's turn they can bring on an extra unit.
•  

I like this! Good one

[Carnelian]

themed selection

Each player is only allowed to bring models of a certain type: E.G. one player must have only models that fit the fluff of a fast moving scout force whilst the other must have only models that are suitable for the end of anext artillery train that has been caught by surprise

[makeshifts]

On 12/28/2016 at 5:12 PM, AGPO said:

Meeting engagement - each player deploys two units. at the start of each player's turn they can bring on an extra unit. 

Prophetic?