sigasana44 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 just received an utter defeat today by free people, mainly because of his 2 cannons. as he goes first, he immediately shoot my only range units, hellcannon and slaughterpriest. and the rest is just foot-slogging army, so he can freely shoot me everytime. sure i can handle the rest of his units easily, but those cannons decimated my units before i can even reach them. any suggestion guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddok Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Do you have way's to ensure you're in on turn 2? You can always use cunning deceiver to mitigate that first round of shooting. You can also take some mobile gun platforms like skull cannons or soul grinders that can advance with your army. Are you using blood stokers to speed the army up? Are you open to using magic? If so the classic Sayl The Faithless + any combat unit works really well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigasana44 Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Maddok said: Do you have way's to ensure you're in on turn 2? You can always use cunning deceiver to mitigate that first round of shooting. You can also take some mobile gun platforms like skull cannons or soul grinders that can advance with your army. Are you using blood stokers to speed the army up? Are you open to using magic? If so the classic Sayl The Faithless + any combat unit works really well i did use stoker, but the rest of his army is a blob of infantry around 20-30 ish. sure i killed more than 20 each units with skullreaper and wrathmonger, but he has another rank of 20-man ready that create a wall so i can't go past through and decimated my guys with those cannon so my attacks reduced greatly. and at the last turn his last unit only has 10 guys left but all of my guys are dead by those cannon (except the buffer like secrator and stoker) I use great destroyer as my traits to make it more can handle most army rather than specific army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarrickson Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Sayl would really help here. But so would some more shooting of your own. The hell cannon is filth, but there's also skullcannons, soul grinders, all the skaven nonsense, the chaos dwarf stuff from FW. The wrath of khorne Bloodthirster is shockingly shooty, and fired up the board by Sayl, stoker and his own command ability is capable of shouting/flailing two sets of three crew easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I've not had the joy of going against a cannon yet, but doesn't Line of Sight rules still apply. Meaning you can screen your key units behind some grunts? Additionally Line of Sight would prevent the cannon from seeing through other units in it's own army. Could you use his other units to your advantage along with some chaff to protect your key units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total Fanboy Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 its true line of sight so you can see through units if you can actually see through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Your hellcannon doesn't need LOS so stick it behind a solid wall where it can't be shot. In your first turn target one shot at cannon crew 1 and one shot at cannon crew 2. If you roll lucky you should take out his crew for both straight away. If not, weather the shots and try it again next turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 50 minutes ago, Total Fanboy said: its true line of sight so you can see through units if you can actually see through them. true but most of the time its very hard to see through a unit. Especially if it's a unit with a small base like blood reavers or old free people models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total Fanboy Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Bases have nothing to do with it bud. It's easy to see through small models. Pretty much no models block line of sight to models behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 most models block line of sight. And the smaller the bases the closer the models are to each other thus less gaps to see through. just stagger your screening unit so los is blocked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigasana44 Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 i did try to hide so they couldn't see my hellcannon, sadly the terrains was not helpful at all. I do want to get some shooting for my army. even tho what i really want is something like from stormcast eternals (teleporting guy) but looks like we don't have any that can pop units to their side of the army. looking at the suggestion, sayl seems pretty popular. BT is not fast enough to kill them tho, and the shootings is not far enough, in 1 turn he will end up like my cannon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louzi Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I am not sure that you are serious. I guess this is a hiddin flame post to nerf shooting in AOS. If I am wrong: Many counters. - Most important get some big units. 20 Reavers, 10 Reapers, 10 Blood Warriors etc. He cant shoot all. - Sayl is great - Daemonsmiths are brutal (adding a Vortex is a good idea) - Cunning Deceiver is brutal - If you want to get range units, too I would take 2 Warp Lightning Cannons or 2 Deathshrieker or 2 Magma Cannons rather than 1 Hellcannon In my opinion shooting is powerful, yes. But it is not op and can eaily be countered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossMHoward Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 The Hell Canon has a 48" range, whereas the Canon only has 32". Used to be 40". Outranging it should be doable and like @bottle said, shoot off the crew. The missile weapon from the a full strength Hellcanon has two shots. You could even divide those between both canon crews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Xhume Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I know most people doesnt consider Furies. Any chance using them to hunt war machines? Flying, move 12" + run, bravery 10 (wont flee even after receiving some damage). Or find some cover from cannon's line of sight with terrain. Harpies is faster, but usually flees before doing anything because of below average bravery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Idk. Furies really seem to suck, at least on paper. I was thinking along the same lines, myself, tho. I even have 10 of them lying around somewhere from a couple of decades ago (seriously). Might try 'em. What've I got to lose? And you can give them marks, so they could potentially gain some buffs from some of the characters out there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 What list are you currently running and at what points level? It's quite easy to throw up a load of potential counters but without knowing what parameters you've got they might not be suitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 ^^Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigasana44 Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 It's 1250 pts. And yes he's using the old cannon, 2 of them, so still have 40" range. My list are bloodsecrator bloodstoker LoK jugger slaughterpriest skullreaper 5 wrathmonger 5 3x10 reavers hellcannon dunno what to tweak. Can somebody tell me why is warp lightning cannon popular? I read the rules but i think it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Apologies if this jumps all over the place If he's using the 40" rules then he's largely got the board covered (guess he parked them in either corner of the board). However even if he has the first turn that's only 4 attacks (though at D6 damage per) so he has to have rolled fairly well to have taken off your hellcannon and slaughterpriest in one turn - which won't happen every game. I'm also just checking that he has enough battleline units as you only mention one large unit? My initial thought is that you've not got enough bodies on the table - Bloodreavers need a lot of support in order to inflict decent damage - and he can snipe that support off fairly easily. Wrathmongers and Skullreapers are both very heavy points sink wise, so I'd be tempted to drop one and replace it with a larger unit of something - Wrathmongers would be my suggestion to drop as it's unlikely he's fielding any Behemoths. A unit of Khorgoraths could work - 8 wounds, 4+ save, 6" range and lowers the bravery of things near it by -1. Whip him and he can run 10~16" on the first turn, plus once he starts munching through models, he'll recover lost wounds. Alternatively, go "all out" and boost your units to 20 Blood Reavers each (the cost of the Wrathmongers). Another option would be a unit of stormfiends - tunnel them as close to a cannon as possible and nuke it. I'm guessing that he has less units than you? Are you running the Dark Feast Battalion? If so, don't forget you can place that down in one deployment (so that's five units down in one hit), alternatively consider running it for this reason. If you can get first turn, then shoot your two hellcannon attacks at both cannon CREWS - their cover save within 1" doesn't stand for anything against Mortal Wounds, and D6 should happily remove all the crew or severely limit the damage output (plus they'll likely run away with a bravery of 5). Yes there is a chance you may miss, but it's worth that in my opinion. Lastly I would be tempted to point out that the cannon has a new version of the rules (he might not be aware of it) and you've not particularly enjoyed the games you've played so could he consider only bringing one cannon next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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