What make the Old World and Mortal Reamls different?

[KHHaunts]

14 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

Why couldn't the story move forward in the Old World? 

I don't see any reason that realm gates couldn't be discovered (or created) in the Old World, or that the Stormcast Eternals join, or that the humans are whooped in the End Times and forced into hiding in Ayzrheim type setting. 

At the end of the day, it happened due to wanting IP and to create another asset for the company (which I appreciate). The Old World now sits in video games and GW's annual report shows how licencing is a strong revenue generator now. 

Fireslayers, Space Lizards, and fleshing out armies like Ghouls and Moonclan could have happened in Old World. 

Perhaps is felt to much like putting a patch over the problem?

But i suppose they could have had (END TIMES SPOILERS) the Incarnates prevent the old worlds total destruction but because of a certain vampire chaos still ravaged it and we could be looking a post endtimes setting with the human races re emerging.

But hey it didnt!

[shinros]

5 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

It's a similar argument to the Black Crusade in 40K. Either Abaddon fails again and Chaos players get salty about it, or Abaddon wins, Cadia is eradicated, several other Chapters and worlds are eradicated, Terra is under siege, etc, etc. Either way they go, they wipe out a faction, which leaves players salty. They could go for a pyrrhic victory, but people will still complain.

Pretty much elves suffer from a similar case. The dark elves will ALWAYS lose because if they won it would invalidate high elves as a faction and dark elves as a society should of collapsed by now considering how many invasions they do and how many die due to their society. Same with vampire counts they will never expand ever or make any gains because it's chaos job to destroy the empire or in Archaon's case the world. 

Tomb king's also pretty much did nothing in the setting and even a new army book could not generate buzz for them.

I love the old world but in my opinion it was not that great of a war game setting in my opinion. Warhammer fantasy was too "small" and nothing could move without upsetting an faction and because of how it was laid out all the factions stayed in the place they are. Empire was waiting for their eventual destruction since fluff wise chaos warriors are bloody superior in every way compared to a normal human. 

Loading screen from total war warhammer

You can't expect "normal" humans to win against these guys even in whfb warriors of chaos were pretty much fantasy chaos space marines not exactly but you get what I am trying to say. Hence why I think when we get to the humans for AOS there will be more focus on the "devoted of sigmar" over the free guild in my opinion. The devoted they have the backing of divine magic better than stormcast(in my opinion), appeared in a campaign book AND got a new hero model with a gryph hound for sliver tower. 

It's a clear fluff point that sigmar made stormcasts because normal sword and board humans were getting punched in the face by super powered daemon soldiers. 

Now away from that point. 

Dark elves as I said were stuck throwing their faces at a island with no success, vampire counts just make mean faces at the empire that chaos is going to trash. Plus lizardmen they barely did anything they talk about putting races back in their right places well they just sat around all day waiting for the "end". I am also of a mind of Amy whfb concluded as expected. 

There was even an argument where someone who never was into warhammer and decided to read up on lore due to total war first thing he said was " In context it makes no sense that the empire is still standing considering the foes they are facing why are they not destroyed yet? It makes no sense."

Of course he was then attacked and then told he knows nothing etc but in my opinion he is correct. 

No matter how I liked the setting it fell stagnant and because of that I started to lose interest perhaps that might be the reason why I was not personally all that miffed about the setting change. 

[Ollie Grimwood]

Space Marines were actually created to replicate the success of Chaos Warriors in 3rd Ed WFB, according to Gav Thorpe anyway.  So I think you've pretty much hit it on the head  

 

 

 

[shinros]

1 hour ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Space Marines were actually created to replicate the success of Chaos Warriors in 3rd Ed WFB, according to Gav Thorpe anyway.  So I think you've pretty much hit it on the head  

 

 

 

Yup and it's clear stormcast were inspired by space marines but lore wise and power wise they are just "order/sigmar" chaos warriors. I listened to that same interview myself. 

[Ollie Grimwood]

1 hour ago, shinros said:

Yup and it's clear stormcast were inspired by space marines but lore wise and power wise they are just "order/sigmar" chaos warriors. I listened to that same interview myself. 

Yeah it was a good one, the cyclical nature of the inspiration made me chuckle. 

[SuperHappyTime]

On 10/31/2016 at 3:20 PM, MrCharisma said:

Why couldn't the story move forward in the Old World? 

I don't see any reason that realm gates couldn't be discovered (or created) in the Old World, or that the Stormcast Eternals join, or that the humans are whooped in the End Times and forced into hiding in Ayzrheim type setting. 

At the end of the day, it happened due to wanting IP and to create another asset for the company (which I appreciate). The Old World now sits in video games and GW's annual report shows how licencing is a strong revenue generator now. 

Fireslayers, Space Lizards, and fleshing out armies like Ghouls and Moonclan could have happened in Old World. 

It could have been moved forward slower (my big complaint). We didn't get much detail with the Greenskins and Ogres, and then Grimgor got flash teleported to the front anyway. We could have had a Bret book and covered their civil war vs Mellobaude pre-ET, fleshed out with plenty of undead and wood elf involvement. There was plenty of other events before the End Times too, these all could have been precursors.

But it would have ended the same way. Even if MANNFRED!!! didn't occur, the way the story was going, there wasn't going to be an Empire, not to mention most of the characters had also been slaughtered.

For the exciting stakes set up, the story was going to have a massive change by the end. At this point you either start with a post-end times world, or reset the entire thing and expand the fluff in the directions as they wanted.

[MacDuff]

21 hours ago, SuperHappyTime said:

But it would have ended the same way. Even if MANNFRED!!! didn't occur, the way the story was going, there wasn't going to be an Empire, not to mention most of the characters had also been slaughtered.

So does that mean all the dead ET characters are now on the Nagash team? (All your bones belong to us.)

[shinros]

1 hour ago, MacDuff said:

So does that mean all the dead ET characters are now on the Nagash team? (All your bones belong to us.)

Well nagash bought back Arkhan, Mannfred and neferata to be his main mortarch's they were planned to be in AOS hence the new models they got in end times. 

[Mirbeau]

I think the different setting has influenced the mechanics of the game a lot - while 8th's releases were often large monsters or elite units too; age of sigmar has really taken that further, as befits a more fantastical setting (which I don't neccessarily prefer). Much like the background, most of the armies I've seen have less rank and file and more elite units, monsters and heros.

 

The theme to an extent is the old world inverted - order striking back against chaos held realms, rather than the opposite, hope rather than decay, which is very different to the old world and quite bold, I like that.  Not sure how much that's been reflected in the gameplay. I'm still looking forward to seeing the 'ratcatcher' type figure, the everyman to anchor all the fantastical stuff going on. We know they're around but haven't really had any focus yet and that's the area where I feel (tastes aside) WFB's background was stronger.

 

[MrCharisma]

On 11/2/2016 at 0:54 PM, SuperHappyTime said:

But it would have ended the same way. Even if MANNFRED!!! didn't occur, the way the story was going, there wasn't going to be an Empire, not to mention most of the characters had also been slaughtered.

1

I don't mind the outcome, I mind the process to the outcome. It seems to me that there was this amazing war (aka The End Times) and then the next morning the humans wake up in Ayzrheim and we don't know much about them other them being scattered around the realm and the SCE's being their protectors.

Who the FreeGuild / Free People... how did they get from complete destruction to living their life in Ayzr? 

Until I get an answer that I'm happy with... I'm sticking with The Empire (of the FreeGuild), on my round bases, from the "Altdorf" tribe, in possession of a realm gate to the Old World ;-)

[Ollie Grimwood]

4 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

I don't mind the outcome, I mind the process to the outcome. It seems to me that there was this amazing war (aka The End Times) and then the next morning the humans wake up in Ayzrheim and we don't know much about them other them being scattered around the realm and the SCE's being their protectors.

Who the FreeGuild / Free People... how did they get from complete destruction to living their life in Ayzr? 

Until I get an answer that I'm happy with... I'm sticking with The Empire (of the FreeGuild), on my round bases, from the "Altdorf" tribe, in possession of a realm gate to the Old World ;-)

They didn't just wake up in the Realms. Have a listen to the Gav Thorpe Interview on the Heelanhammer podcast (ep 152) he does a good job of explaining. 

Not saying you'll like the answer though. 

[MrCharisma]

3 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

They didn't just wake up in the Realms. Have a listen to the Gav Thorpe Interview on the Heelanhammer podcast (ep 152) he does a good job of explaining. 

Not saying you'll like the answer though. 

Maybe I shouldn't listen and remain ignorant ;-)

[Zeratan]

The main differance between the two settings (which I personaly like) is the scale in all 4 dimensions. Mortal Realms are not only vast in terms of territory but also existed for a very long time and thus stood witness to rise and fall of countless civilisations (Phoenicium would be a great example of one). This grants huge freedom not only to GW writers but also the players. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Indeed, I can imagine the Mortal Realms are scattered with the ruins of countless cities and empires that rose and fell over the years. In fact, that's exactly what my Death force is based on.